AndyRV7

AndyRV7

Well Known Member
I was wondering if I could get some quick opinions on true build times. The build would be a slow build 7 (hopefully not that slow!), with no paint. I would be a first-timer. In my mind, I am capable enough to get through a build (not a pro but not I have some mechanical skills. I am certainly not afraid of tools.). I can see having to slow down at certain points though, like panel/electrical, which I have no experience with.

I've tried to read as many of the first flight stories on the Van's site as I can, but most people don't describe their prior experience or whether they went with a QB or standard kit, or even if they did their own panel or not.

Obviously this might be a pretty wide range of times, but I am hoping to get a little better grasp of your experiences in the real world.

Thanks!
 
There are lot's of tricks to cut build times significantly. I think if I built another I could shave 10% or more off where I am at right now.

I don't really know how much time I have left, but I have 504 hours into it so far.

I admit, I don't enjoy the building as much as other do. I don't fool around, I just knock stuff out. It helps that I worked structures for Boeing and United Airlines for many years.
 
Build Time

I have 4 friends that have completed side by sides (slow builds) recently. All work for a living, hence all are "part time builders".

Don't know the average "hours" but surmize it to say that the average was 4 years, start to finish, for these 4 dudes.

By the way, it's just wrong to refer to the new prepunched kits as "slow builds"!

Tommy Walker
RV-6A (true slow build)
Flying, 470 hours and "Climbing!"
 
There is a lot if variation in tracking hours. I have recorded and allocated actual shop or hangar time omitting travel, computer, research, investigation, and other head scratching conducted away from tools. This time can be extensive. I am closing in on 1,200 hours now and suspect another 400 or so to be ready for first flight without leg fairings or pants.
 
Yeah the prepunched skins are awesome. You RV 6 (and older kits) guys have a lot more work than mine.

I don't track the hours spent researching (and blogging). I do round up to the next hour though (3.2 hrs =4) to sort of account for the time I spend staring at the project in my pajamas.
 
OK, I am starting to feel better. I figured I would be a slow builder because I study things a lot and then go step by step. Pretty methodical by nature. I figured if 2000 was the Vans number I would be 2500-2800. But I was worried that that actually might be 4000. But I haven't seen anyone claim that long of a build, so I feel a little better.

I agree in theory with the head-scratching idea. I can imagine a lot of time in the house trying to figure things out.
 
You can save a ton of time by studying the whole set of plans and drawings and working it out in your head how everything goes together.

When I get a chance I will post some of the things I have done to cut my build time significantly.

For now, plan on having a complete set of tools, buy one of EVERYTHING and two of MOST. You can always sell the stuff later.

When I worked for Boeing I would always have at least 4 drills chucked, 2 or 3 rivet guns, and several pairs of cleco pliers. You would be surprised how much time is spent changing drill bits.

If I built another I would make all the brackets and angles for the entire kit all at the same time, mark them and have them ready when the time came to assemble them.
 
Hello Andy,

I started my 9A (slow build) and using Vans hours figured that I could build it in a little over 2 years. After more then one year and I hadn't finished the first wing, I went a head and ordered the Fuse and a Quick build. I finished up a little over 5 years total time.

I am a software engineer and have never tackled anything to mechanical, so I may have taken longer then someone that is used to tinkering with car and engines. Life gets in the way on these projects and will slow you down.

I did my own panel, but had someone else wire the radios together. I had a friend help with the painting. The engine was built by Aerosport.

It is a fun and educational experience.:)

Flying is fun when your through.:D

Kent
 
[email protected] said:
There is a lot if variation in tracking hours. I have recorded and allocated actual shop or hangar time omitting travel, computer, research, investigation, and other head scratching conducted away from tools. This time can be extensive...
Click to expand...

That matches how I counted my hours. I was right at 2400 hours over four years and four months from start to finish and that didn't count paint.

I have no idea how guys who finish a slow build in less than 1000 hours do it. Well maybe I do.

Every part on my -9 was primed, I had to go through the engine, I cut my panel myself, did all the wiring, etc. Some people just buy those things already done and simply plug them in or hang their engines right out of the box. Also, I went with an odd ball engine, while "technically" supported by Van's I and to modify a lot of O-320 parts to fit. Also adding a center throttle quadrant (which I think is just OUTSTANDING) added about 20 hours in figuring out how to build the supports, mounting, etc. In other words, any change you make will add time.
 
newer builds can be/should be a lot faster than a few years ago.

for references, we have hundreds of build logs on the web
with thousands of detailed photo illustrations and explanations.
additional help is only one post away.

many of the resources available to us today did not exist merely 3 years ago.
 
First timer

Well, this is my first time. I was reasonably mechanically inclined and bought the QB kit all at one time.

Buy all tools on the front end. Must have band saw, two drills, bench grinder with scotchbright wheel, drill press, and dremel tool. Usual array of other stuff and recommend an AVERY RV kit. Saves you lots of time and a little money.

OK, now, I have completed everything, but nothing is assembled. That means the fuse is complete and on the wheels, fairings and cowls, etc done, engine hung and ready to start, all wiring done. Wings complete except for tips, tail assebly complete but not installed. It's all at the hangar and ready for final assembly. Not painted.

I have actual logged shop time of 1,349 hours and I expect 100-150 to go before flying. I think that I have logged at least 90% of actual shop time. I have at least that much more in research, testing, and internet review work. If you don't do the reseach you will need to add at least 100-200 hours for reworking stuf you screw up but I have no idea how a first time builder could build a nice plane and not spend 400-500 hours at least on the internet.

I would guess my total build time including research, parts seach, and parts ordering will be around 3,000 hours.

It's just like knitting a quilt. You start when you start and finish when you finish.

Just my .02

Bill S
 
2 seperate slow build RV3s, 4 years each. The second one did not go that much faster cause I spent a lot more time on the detail stuff.
ymmv
 
9A quickbuild. Ordered tail, fuselage, wings all at once, then a second order for FWF and finish kit. Build time about 1300 hours, not including a bunch of finish work in prep for paint. Painted by someone else. Panel and electrical work all done by me, though I got a harness from SteinAir that undoubtedly saved some time. I made a few modifications (center quad throttle, extra baggage space), but not a lot of changes. Might add another 100-150 hours for head scratching and the helper time (my wife shot many of the rivets while I bucked). Since first flight, I've modified, finished and fixed etc. for 250 more hours.

So, bottom line is maybe 1500-1700 hours not including paint. I did not keep extremely detailed records, but am certain that I'm not off by more than 10%.

greg
 
I'll see your erg and raise ya.

Even aircraft manufacturers want to know how long it takes to complete a given task. Do you know how the pros do it? They hire time study personnel armed with a clipboards and stopwatches to bird-dog a single production worker, sometimes for days at a time. That worker's every movement is defined as "touch labor" and documented in units of "erg." How you like would to be that particular production worker knowing over the span of an entire work shift, your every single motion is being very closely monitored? No thanks. Been there, done that. It ain't fun. Everybody works at a different pace so the time study people calculate an average amount of touch labor it takes a given production worker to complete any given task. Calculated in units of erg, that data is submitted to a customer and used to justify labor costs for any given project.

Just as quality control can be all over the map when it comes to homebuilding, so too is the fanciful notion anyone can come up with an accurate number of hours it takes to build an RV. Yet Van's has to do just that as a marketing device to reach potential customers. After all, any buyer would like to get his arms around what he might be getting into. Without every builder having a clear understanding of what a single unit of "erg" really means, any builder who comes up with a total number of labor hours is merely offering up a personal ballpark guesstimate.

There is no way I could cultivate the patience and waste of time required to document the actual number of build hours. However, there is a measure of time I think we can all agree upon. It is a true measure if there ever was one. Better to ask: "How much time passed between taking delivery of the empennage kit and the day your airplane was awarded its Airworthiness Certificate?" Clearly, by that measurable standard, it took me 4 years and 4 months to build a standard kit RV-6A and 23 months to build a standard kit RV-8. I credit match hole technology on the advanced -8 project kit as the primary reason I was able to complete it to legal airworthiness status in less than half the time it took to complete the -6A.

My experience aside, if that clearly defined time line.....empennage kit to AC.....were averaged based upon the day a given RV became "legal" and then go back in time to the day its empennage kit was originally delivered to the builder, I believe we all would have a much better understanding how long it really takes the "average" person to build the average RV. Somebody want to start a poll?

Yogi Berra summed it up best: "It ain't over till it's over."
 
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welcome to the slow side...

I'm just submitting registration paperwork to the FAA now so, technically not "done" yet, but I'm at almost exactly 7 years with a 7A "quickbuild"! I stopped counting hours around 1500 and that was several years ago. It just made me depressed. After 2 years, I thought I had enough knowledge to guesstimate how long it would take to finish...I was still off by 3 years with my prediction!

Jeremy Constant
7AQB...almost done?:D
 
I'm a slowbuild 9A, tail and wings are done, aft fuse is riveted and center/forward section clecoed. I'm right at 750 hours, but I figure I put an easy 50-60 hours (maybe 70?) into converting the outboard leading edges into additional fuel tanks. I had originally budgeted 2000 hours as a target for completion, just as a SWAG guess, I really don't know how much longer it will take, and don't much care. I'll just keep working on it till it's done, and tracking the hours, and then we'll all know.

Real time? I started the tail in December of '07. I've got a full-time-plus job and a side business, and travel a lot for both, so I've only averaged about 8 hours per week in the shop. I'm guessing 18-24 months still to go. I'm starting to surf the market for an engine core now, just to have one ready for when I get there.

I've got a few pilots in the family, and they are always asking me when my bird will fly. I always respond "Tuesday. I just don't know which one yet." Every time I talk to them they ask me now if I'm getting closer to Tuesday.
 
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Build Time

It took me a little over 5 years and 3000 hours to build an RV-7 slowbuild. That doesn't include time spent researching on the web. Fuel tanks were pre-built but I did the panel myself I stuck strickly to the plans with no mods. I was a first time builder with little help other than builders websites, the forums and my wife helping with the riveting. I'm not a particularly fast worker so I probably fall on "slow" side of the specturm. But I did get it done!
 
Thanks everyone. Good food for thought. I get the sense that I would be slow myself because I still can't envision certain things in my mind, like what I would want to equip the panel with, for example. I still feel overwhelmed by the choices. I guess metal protection would be another problem for me. I tend to want to over-engineer things!:eek:

Andy
 
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