mill2978

Well Known Member
I am working on fitting the trim tab to the elevator and can't seem to get the fore/aft alignment right.

I have already gone through one set of hinges trying to get this to work. The first time I did get the trim tab closer with the the edge of the elevator, but the edge distance on the hinge holes were far less than the 2x the diameter rule.

In the picture you can see the center line of the hinge through the holes on the elevator as well as one on the trim tab.

2012-05-30_13-26-09_788%5B1%5D.jpg


How do I move the trim tab forward without violating the edge distance on the holes I need to drill in the hinge?

Thanks for the help

Aaron
 
Aaron,

Welcome to the club!

I think I made at least 3 trim tabs before I was satisfied. Given that the gap between the trim tab and the HS is fixed, you will need to make a new trim tab. You can then reduce the overall forward - aft dimension by the amount of the offset in your picture. Looks like you will need to trim it by ~1/8 inch.

Good luck,
Mike
 
Hi Aaron.

See my log entry to see if this helps. If it's any consolation you've done the hard part - bending the tab! The fact it's a spare in the catalog says's to me either the design is crummy or Van has a sick sense of humor! The build gets easier - trust me!

Regards

Bob Ellis
www.rv-8.co.uk
Test phase in progress
 
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Aaron,

Welcome to the club!

I think I made at least 3 trim tabs before I was satisfied. Given that the gap between the trim tab and the HS is fixed, you will need to make a new trim tab. You can then reduce the overall forward - aft dimension by the amount of the offset in your picture. Looks like you will need to trim it by ~1/8 inch.

Good luck,
Mike

Mike,
That doesn't make sense to me. This is a prepunched kit, the only control I have is over the angle of the bend and that is based off of the angle on the elevator. Unless I started with raw metal and drilled all my own holes how would I make this piece any different? :confused:

Thanks

Aaron
 
Hmm,

Looks like I'm dating myself. When I made my trim tab they were not prepunched. If both your trim tab and HS are prepunched I don't see any reasonable way of closing that gap. You could call Vans and see if they would send you a trim tab that hasn't been punched.

MD
 
Tell ya what: I'll bring my (second:rolleyes:) trim tab to Colorado (Longmont) with me on vacation the second week of July, and you can bend my tabs while I drill your hinge...

I just did mine in March, and I seem to remember pushing the edge distance a little bit on the hinge and it seemed to come out fine. Along with my second trim tab, I did order the next width of hinge, though. (Just looking at the picture now, I'm not sure that will help; the edge distance problem is on the INSIDE edge of the hinge halves...)
DSCN3264.JPG
 
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Tell ya what: I'll bring my (second:rolleyes:) trim tab to Colorado (Longmont) with me on vacation the second week of July, and you can bend my tabs while I drill your hinge...

I just did mine in March, and I seem to remember pushing the edge distance a little bit on the hinge and it seemed to come out fine. Along with my second trim tab, I did order the next width of hinge, though. (Just looking at the picture now, I'm not sure that will help; the edge distance problem is on the INSIDE edge of the hinge halves...)
DSCN3264.JPG

You are correct the edge distance is on the inside.

I sent the mother ship an email yesterday and then went to call today only to hear "the number you have dialed is temporarily unavailable" from the front page of VAF I see that the power is out. I will have to try tomorrow.

Where are you vacationing in CO? So many beautiful places here!

Bring out your trim tab, I didn't bend mine, I made riblets(when I was trying to kill time waiting for wings), but I think the method I used to brace and bend the elevator should work the same on the trim tab.

I cut out a wedge of oak on my band saw, placed that in the gap, then put the corresponding wedge that was cutaway on top of it, clamping them both to my bench top VERY tightly. I sanded both wedges just enough to take away the blade marks so that they wouldn't deform the skin.

IMG_7596.JPG


I had a couple of sticks of wood ready to brace the inside of the wedges if they started to slip, but it wasn't an issue. Before I started bending I hit them with the flush rivet set on ~20psi and they were solidly held down.

Aaron
 
Hmm,

Looks like I'm dating myself. When I made my trim tab they were not prepunched. If both your trim tab and HS are prepunched I don't see any reasonable way of closing that gap. You could call Vans and see if they would send you a trim tab that hasn't been punched.

MD

That is a good idea Mike, I will bring it up when I get a hold of them. There is also a local supplier here where I can get the AL in sheets and I can use my current parts as a template.
 
...Where are you vacationing in CO? So many beautiful places here! ...

The Cessna 170 Convention is in Longmont the second week of July. (Friday may be a free day...)


...Bring out your trim tab, I didn't bend mine, I made riblets(when I was trying to kill time waiting for wings), but I think the method I used to brace and bend the elevator should work the same on the trim tab.

I cut out a wedge of oak on my band saw, placed that in the gap, then put the corresponding wedge that was cutaway on top of it, clamping them both to my bench top VERY tightly. I sanded both wedges just enough to take away the blade marks so that they wouldn't deform the skin.

I had a couple of sticks of wood ready to brace the inside of the wedges if they started to slip, but it wasn't an issue. Before I started bending I hit them with the flush rivet set on ~20psi and they were solidly held down.

Aaron

I pretty much did everything you did, except I didn't have any hardwood laying around, so I cut my wedges out of a 2x4 (pine, fir?) I had laying around. Even with double-sided tape, it slipped a bit and I ended up with the bends not lining up top to bottom. did you radius your inside block for the bend?

DSCN3247.JPG
 
I didn't radius the block, I gave the corner a pass with sand paper, but that was really just for the tool marks. Maybe it was the wood, I started trying to make the riblets and couldn't make a good bend with pine(scrap 2x4) or the MDF I had lying around, it just mushed into the block. I just happened to have a stick of oak in my scrap pile that was the right size.
 
Talked to the Mother Ship

I talked to Van's this morning, they had a few things to say:

The trim tab sticking out past the trailing edge has little or no aerodynamic affect. They have seen some stick out as much at 2-3 inches on some of the older DIY kits.

The edge distance rule is not as set in stone as I presumed, it can be less based on many factors: thickness of material, type of material, load type, etc. In this case there are many more rivets than needed, the forces are not shearing forces, and it is under relatively little load,etc.

Basically I am overly concerned, build on.
 
Is Vans contradicting themselves here?

I talked to Van's this morning, they had a few things to say:

The trim tab sticking out past the trailing edge has little or no aerodynamic affect. They have seen some stick out as much at 2-3 inches on some of the older DIY kits.

The edge distance rule is not as set in stone as I presumed, it can be less based on many factors: thickness of material, type of material, load type, etc. In this case there are many more rivets than needed, the forces are not shearing forces, and it is under relatively little load,etc.

Basically I am overly concerned, build on.

So it has taken me a while to reply to this thread because I needed to go back and research my own posts to see how I resolved these problems. After reading this response from Vans I wanted to review what was stated in the plans. I found the step that says to take the trim tab and align both the trailing and inboard edges with the elevator. In parentheses it then states: "(The alignment of the trailing edge being the more critical one.....)"

I took the use of that word "critical" quite literally, and therefore I was determined to ensure that the trailing edge of the trim tab was properly aligned with the elevator. Now I am even more curious about what they actually meant when they used the word "critical" in the instructions, compared with the response they gave you.

In any event, how did I resolve the dilemma you have been facing? I simply sacrificed about 1.5/32s of edge distance (one half the rivet width) on some of the rivet holes on the outboard edge of the hinge flange that is attached to the elevator so that my trailing edges all lined up. I also had to trim a small amount of the outer edge of the hinge flange away to maintain clearance with the radius of the trim tab rear spar for about the last 1.5 inches or so toward the outboard end of the elevator. All of my holes for the hinge on the trim tab itself were drilled right down the center of my reference line, which I drew 3/16 from the outer edge of the hinge flange (did not follow the 1/4 inch statement in the plans - there are many former posts about this dilemma here on VAF)

So yes, it matters where you draw your reference lines on each hinge flange, and yes, even after doing this as accurately as possible, you still end up sacrificing some edge distance for some of the holes in the hinge on the elevator side in order to make the trim tab trailing edge fit.

If you wish I can supply links to the appropriate posts, or some of the pics that I took. I wanted to spare you from having to dig for pertinent info because these posts are long and involved, and the relevant info is imbedded deep inside several of my posts. My trim tab experiences begin in November of 2011 and continue into January of 2012, so you can use the date links on the left pane of my blog site and the search and label functions as you wish.

It is not my intent to muddy up your thinking about how or if you should resolve the trailing edge misalignment you are experiencing, but I found it a bit strange that Vans seems to be contradicting themselves just a bit when comparing the statements in the plans to what they told you recently. I opted to do what it took to align the parts correctly per the statement in the instructions, since the deviations from edge distance requirements in order to make them fit were minimal in my opinion.

The real problem is twofold: The trim tab rear spar web is not quite as deep as it probably should be to avoid having this problem all together, and the note in their plans about the 1/4 inch measurement for the rivet holes is just wrong. Do you need to build a new trim tab? - HECK NO! You just need to measure and draw some new reference lines on both of the hinge halves using min edge distance of 3/16 from the outer edge of the flange, and adjust the fit of the hinge on the elevator side until the parts line up the way that they should. Mine came out fantastic with very minor deviations to edge distances. Will I check it during preflight and during condition inspections once I am flying - you bet I will.

My 2 cents.
 
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Bryan,
Thanks for your 2 cents. I can't speak to the inconsistencies from Vans, I'm just relaying what I was told in hopes of helping the next person that has this problem.

I decided to sacrifice the edge distance as well to make it fit. It looks good and I am comfortable with the tolerances.

Aaron