jlfernan

jlfernan

Well Known Member
Received my tail kit on Thursday, today I finished the VS. While riveting the parts together, especially the skin at the spar where there is no spar cap, therefore not pre-drilled, some rivets would not go in. I had to resort to using a #30 reamer to clean out a few of the more stubborn holes. Anyone else have this happen?
 
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Re: tough rivets

No worries. I've used the reamer many, many times.
I suspect several causes:
a) the LP4-3 tolerances may be a little loose (?) because often if one rivet won't go thru, a different one will
b) sometimes a hole drilled with our standard 2-flute bits will end up being a bit "triangular". Not enough for us to notice, but a rivet will jam partway in. Don't force it. Use the flute.
c) Rarely, but once in a while despite my best efforts to coax and wiggle parts into position, I'll have to use the flute to "clean up" overlapping holes. The flute will only clean out a small shaving and then the rivet goes thru like it's home at last.
Keep the flute handy in a cordless electric drill.
Others may have different ideas and experience, lot's of good advice and differing opinions around here!
Enjoy your build,
Dave
 
A tapered punch works great too when you're lining up several layers to rivet. I always tried twirling the punch in the holes before resorting to the drill bit.
 
While some holes need a little help don't be too quick to ream out holes that don't line up well. There may be something wrong. Good common sense goes a long way. ;)

The wing tip close outs stick out in my mind as being a pita.
 
An icepick is an indispensable tool for any riveting.

Also, so no one learns the hard way, never rivet a line of rivets sequentially in order from one end to the other. That is a recipe for disaster as the parts may shift due to the expansion of the rivets. Rivet a few rivets, spaced out across the line, then fill in the rest.

This can sometimes be a problem when closing a wing, where riveting from one end of the skin to the other is required. In that case, check the alignment occasionally while working.

YMMV!
 
Closed out the rudder today, but am still having trouble getting the rivets in. Through the skins and thin ribs, no problem. Back at the spar, none would go in. Ended up reaming those holes. Best I can figure, is that I'm priming my parts and that the primer in the holes is interfering with the rivet. I also put the reamer by hand through a prepunched hole where the part had not been primed, and it went through so the primer may be my problem.
 
Changed primer type but I'm still having a hard time getting the rivets in. I'm working the HS spar box and have had to fight several of the rivets into the holes. What am I doing wrong? I wrote to Van's and was told using the reamer for the occasional tough rivet is OK. I'm just tempted to ream all the holes. The extra work will pay for itself in making it easier for the rivets to go in. I just need to be sure that structurally this is OK. I know solid rivets swell into the hole, but how much to blind rivets swell? Any thoughts?
 
Jorge,
All of the replies are good advice.
Make sure all of the holes line up. If not, you may have the wrong part. This kit is cleverly designed to make it difficult (but not impossible) to install a part in the wrong place.

I also used the ice pick mentioned earlier to wiggle and tease parts into that last .001 of alignment, especially on the large skins.

If all else fails and you're certain you have the correct parts together, use the reamer to remove just a "shaving" of interference and rivet on!

BTW, none of us have talked about clecoes. Recommend you use a LOT of them. Even with the clecoes installed, you can wiggle the parts enough to ensure good hole alignment to install the rivets. Generally,I tried to clecoe every other hole, ream (if needed) then rivet all open holes, then remove clecoes and finish. As mentioned somewhere earlier, DO NOT rivet sequentially from one end. Hit the ends, then the middle, then the quarter positions, and so on.

Lastly (and to answer your last question), blind rivets will swell in the hole. They can feel a little loose or go in easily and do the job. They should not feel so sloppy in the hole that you wonder about using a larger rivet.

Finally (OK, I'm really done here in a minute <grin>), most primer should be just a very thin coat. You should be able to see your part markings through the primer. Heavy primer coats can add a couple thousandths to surfaces and structure that will show up as minor miss-alignment across long spans and rivet lines, especially on skins that wrap around the primed structures. All that said, there were some areas where I had to ream nearly every hole. Worry less, rivet more, and "stay thirsty" my friend!
 
I've done the VS, rudder, anti-servo tabs, and HS so far. I clecoed the entire skin on with a cleco in every other hole before any riveting. That many clecos is probably overkill, but I've been able to insert rivets with only a light touch with an ice pick once in while. But then I'm only doing (gasp) minimal priming.

Jim
 
I'm with you Jim. At some point I decided that I wasn't going to let priming slow up my build during cold weather. Risking heresey and bannishment I know. It does seem that rivet alignment has gotten easier since I "quit the habit", though I haven't kept any data so to speak. Purely anecdotal observation.
 
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