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DitoLiberato

Member
Hi guys,
I?ve just ordered my first two kits (empennage and wigs) and I?m about to start building my dream. My question might be silly,but I really wanted to start my first thread and feel part of the bunch :).
I live in a small town in Minas Gerais/Brazil. There are no aeronautical tools readly available around here, so I?m probably importing from the USA. The problem is that I?m a little confused about what?s really needed. Kit prices range from $ 1600 (basic tools) to $2600 (fancy kit). I?m a first timer with metal sheet, and some input from experienced hands would be very welcome. Thank you!
 
You can never have too many tools... :D

Still, there is necessary and then there is useful ... and a lot of disagreement about where to draw the line. Van's construction manual has a lot of good information and you can search these forums for more info. My personal recommendations: whatever tool package you choose, order extra bits. Having a spare of each of the bits will save you a big headache and I like to keep a dozen each of the #30 and #40 jobber bits. Don't be tempted to keep using a bit until it is so dull that the holes get messy.

Invest in a good air compressor and use quick connections and a separate air line for each tool; it'll make your life much easier. I've seen some folk use a single line and put the connections on the tool but I find that I don't like a quick connector there; it gets in my way. Also, if you will be doing painting, you will want a dedicated line for the paint sprayer; tool lines get oily.

Now is also a good time to get a feel for the lead times you will have in ordering tools. You are certain to order more during the project and it will help you to know how far in advance you should plan on ordering. Same for small parts and such, especially as you begin working on the systems.

Welcome to the forums and good luck with your new project.
 
Thank you Patrick,
specially for the tips on the airtools aparatus. I was neglecting the tools assembly and only thinking about the tools themselves.
The heavy stuff is what concernes me the most. Getting the feel for the lead times in ordering the tools can be a real pain in the butt, when they need to be imported. That is a greater truth when you are brazilian. The " Brazil " topic at Vans FAQ is something like: "ok, to much trouble selling to you guys."
 
Check out "The Yard". They have good prices and you can find them on google.

Here's a list of my favs. ( I spent years working sheetmetal for Boeing and United Airlines)

Tungsten bucking bar
two hand riveters, (one for dimples one for riveting).
2 drills (one set up with a countersink and one with a drill bit).
3x rivet gun,
1/4 chuck drill,
cordless drill,
90 die grinder,
Band Saw is a must.
300 silver clecos,
200 copper,
12 black and gold.
12 cleco clamps, 6 gold wing nut clecos,
2 or 3 6" scales
2 or 3 12" drill bits #40 and #30
A set of dimple dies
A few "fine point" sharpees a couple regular as well.
Bench grinder with a scotch brite wheel on one end
3" scotch brite discs (12 blue 12 red)
3" sanding discs
Dremel tool (and a set of bits)
A 1/2 thick piece of steel 6" x 24" (for back riveting
A back rivet set
A flush rivet set
A "elephants foot" (angle rivet set)
3" and 6" 3/32 and 1/8 rivet set
Several diameters of countersinks.
1 "fluteless" counter sink
10 #40, #30 drill bits
A kit of normal bits
1 5/8 drill bit

Oh yeah, and the patience of a saint and a understanding wife. You'll see her again in a few years.

You can PM me if you have any specifics.
 
Ask local manufacturers

Hi Rodrigo,

Why don't you try to contact some of the Brazilian aircraft manufacturers and ask them where they purchase their tools?

I would not be surprised if a Brazilian company was manufacturing aircraft building tools locally. Every time I've done business in your country, I've been amazed by the fact that when companies couldn't import something, they often decided to build it locally and create a local market.

Good luck with your project
 
Tools that earn their keep

Hi Rodrigo

Welcome to VAF

Tony (APKP777) has given you a good list to work from.

Everybody has their own opinion and their own favourites.

Personally, I don't have a hand squeezer. I use my pneumatic squeezer for everything. They are expensive but in my view, really worth the money. Whether pneumatic or manual, get a long-nose-no-hole and a longeron yoke in addition to the standard 3 inch yoke.

Changing cutters in countersink cages and setting the exact right depth takes a lot of time so I have three of them. One is permanently set up with a #30 cutter, the second has a #40 cutter and the third is used for everything else.

My air drill is really bad, especially the trigger. While thinking about getting a new one, I began to use my two Makita cordless drills (1300 rpm) and now I don't think I will bother with a new air drill - though I might go for a 90 degree angle drill.

The DRDT2 dimpling frame is fantastic. It makes consistently perfect dimples very quickly and is totally silent - which allows me to work late without disturbing the neighbours who are close to my workshop.

You will also need #30 and #40 pop rivet dimplers for tight spaces like the narrow ends of ribs in control surfaces. Even these won't work everywhere but search VAF for solutions.

There are lots of places where the normal female #30 and #40 dimple dies are too big. I eventually got the small diameter ones.

You are going to need a pop rivet puller but I wouldn't recommend an expensive one. I got a second cheap one just so that I could grind one side off it and get in close to a vertical flange. It is just as good as the expensive one that is now idle. If you are building an RV-12 get a pneumatic one.

I bought a little battery screwdriver and hex adapter for my deburring bit and find that I can go much faster than with the manual kind. Don't overdo the deburring, especially on holes.

You can never have enough clamps - of all kinds.

Two torque wrenches are needed to build an RV. One of them needs to be able to handle the low values for AN3 bolts (20-25 lb in) but these little ones will not handle the torque values required for the big bolts later on. I also got a set of 'crow foot' wrenches for torquing pipe fittings but Vans website has a method for this that doesn't need a torque wrench at all.

Good luck with your project.
 
Loman said:
Hi Rodrigo

Welcome to VAF

Tony (APKP777) has given you a good list to work from.

Everybody has their own opinion and their own favourites.

Personally, I don't have a hand squeezer. I use my pneumatic squeezer for everything. They are expensive but in my view, really worth the money. Whether pneumatic or manual, get a long-nose-no-hole and a longeron yoke in addition to the standard 3 inch yoke.

Changing cutters in countersink cages and setting the exact right depth takes a lot of time so I have three of them. One is permanently set up with a #30 cutter, the second has a #40 cutter and the third is used for everything else.

My air drill is really bad, especially the trigger. While thinking about getting a new one, I began to use my two Makita cordless drills (1300 rpm) and now I don't think I will bother with a new air drill - though I might go for a 90 degree angle drill.

The DRDT2 dimpling frame is fantastic. It makes consistently perfect dimples very quickly and is totally silent - which allows me to work late without disturbing the neighbours who are close to my workshop.

You will also need #30 and #40 pop rivet dimplers for tight spaces like the narrow ends of ribs in control surfaces. Even these won't work everywhere but search VAF for solutions.

There are lots of places where the normal female #30 and #40 dimple dies are too big. I eventually got the small diameter ones.

You are going to need a pop rivet puller but I wouldn't recommend an expensive one. I got a second cheap one just so that I could grind one side off it and get in close to a vertical flange. It is just as good as the expensive one that is now idle. If you are building an RV-12 get a pneumatic one.

I bought a little battery screwdriver and hex adapter for my deburring bit and find that I can go much faster than with the manual kind. Don't overdo the deburring, especially on holes.

You can never have enough clamps - of all kinds.

Two torque wrenches are needed to build an RV. One of them needs to be able to handle the low values for AN3 bolts (20-25 lb in) but these little ones will not handle the torque values required for the big bolts later on. I also got a set of 'crow foot' wrenches for torquing pipe fittings but Vans website has a method for this that doesn't need a torque wrench at all.

Good luck with your project.
Click to expand...

I can pretty much "ditto" the above list. My air drill is also a cheap one but it is great for drilling all of the many holes (to size) in the kits. For more control and countersinking I use a cordless drill, although any variable speed drill would work. I have both pneumatic and hand squeezes and they both have their places, if you get both, find a hand squeeze that will take the pneumatic squeeze yokes. Bucking bars come in all sizes and shapes and you will find that most of them are useful at one point or another. I don't have a DRDT2 - I deal with the noise. I only have one countersink, I make due - no money in the budget for three and the change time and setup really doesn't take that much time.

I found that all of the tool kits I looked at were quite adequate for the build and every one of them had some minor differences. I went for the least expensive tool kit as possible (yeah, I'm cheap) and I haven't regretted it. I'm building one plane and so far none of the tools have let me down.

Good luck
 
I'd recommend getting each type of close-quarters dimpling tool:

"Vise-Grip" type

"Pop-Rivet" type

"Female dimple die on a steel bar" type
 
When I started this fascinating endeavor, I used Vans recommended tool list first and foremost.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rqd-tool.htm

It served me very well, though I of course acquired additional tools over the past three years. My only disagreement with Vans is on the bandsaw... they say it's nice to have but not necessary. I say "hogwash." I wouldn't start another RV w/o a bandsaw.
 
btw: You can talk to Van's and have your tools shipped to them - so they can be crated with the rest of your kit - saves a bit on international shipping/customs.
 
Extra rivets an sheets

Guys,

thank you again for the replies. I can say by now that my own "personnal" list is taking shape in my head after reading your experiences. The question now is the following: as a first timer, I?ll need some extra rivets and pieces of sheet metal, so that I can practice some riveting. I would also assume that as a rookie, I will loose some more rivets to misriveting (not sure if that word exists). Are the rivets supplied with the kit just enough, or there is room for some practice and error? Should I order more rivets, besides clamps?
 
There seem to be plenty of rivets in the tail kit for messing around with and to practice. Pop rivets are a different story. The tail kit for the 9 does not have enough LP4-3's to hit all of the "optional" places for pop rivets on the plans.

Personally, I would spend more time practicing drilling out rivets, than driving them. :) Drilling out rivets is probably more risky to the parts than buggering up a rivet.
 
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