J

Jack Tyler

Well Known Member
I'm wondering, for those of you who found yourselves flying with your tip-up canopy unlatched, if the behavior of your RV was similar to what this video shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGv0JqKJse4
(After the intro, you'll get the idea when the canopy pops open on takeoff. This is a Piper Sport Cruiser)

On this a/c, the results of the open canopy were described as slowing climb performance, some loss of speed, and the obvious variation in how open it gets in straight/level vs. banking flight. And because of the amount it has opened - quite a lot in level flight, seems to me - the amount of disruptive airflow in the cockpit seems pretty obnoxious. Any comparative comments (and the RV type in which they occurred) would be most welcome. Thanks!

Jack
 
Jack, not like that in my RV9A

The first time I didn't fully lock my canopy, it had the top latch shut. The side latch was just barely caught. I didn't notice anything unusual until I go to my cruse alt of 7500 ft and noticed that my speed was about 10 kts below where it should be. It was about then that I released that there was additional noise and that the back of the canopy was about 1/2 inch raised up.

I was able to push the latch handle closed and the flight was completed normal.

The other time I completely forgot to latch both. On takeoff the back raised up about two inches. When I got to pattern alt I tried to pull it down as I cruised on downwind at 80 kts. I could not latch it. I finished landing and latched it down.

I have been told that if you bring the plane to about stall speed, that you can close the canopy.

Kent
 
I wonder what his underpants looked like after that trip around the pattern... LOL

Not sure I'd purposefully do that without some sort of back up I could rely on to hold the canopy down while I flew the airplane (i.e. another person or rig some sort of device that would only allow the canopy to open a certain number of inches).
 
...Any comparative comments (and the RV type in which they occurred) would be most welcome....
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My very first RV flight ever was in a tip-up RV6 when the transient pilot unexpectedly dropped in at our sleepy little airport for the purposes of visiting family living in the area. After touring my hangar and reviewing the RV-6A in the final stages of assembly, he noted I had never flown in an RV before. Even though he just completed a long cross country, he invited me for a brief introductory flight. How could I say no? After climbing aboard and strapping in, I marveled at the view, the airplane, everything. We chatted as we back-taxied to the active and I had a million questions to ask him. Soon, we lined up on the active and he advanced the throttle. The pilot failed to latch the canopy but did not discover the error until we rotated. The canopy only rose up a few inches and as he flew, tried repeatedly to pull it shut....to no avail. He then asked me to try to close it as he flew the airplane. I tried to pull that canopy closed but the effort proved useless. It was only after bringing the plane to near stall was I able to muster the strength to finally shut and lock it. The pilot was clearly embarrassed by all this but I didn't care, I just wanted a little stick time and instantly discovered how delightful an RV handles. We landed uneventfully.

Fast forward one year. My -6A now flying, I forgot to latch the slider canopy but did not notice the condition until airborne and noted something just did not sound right. The canopy was open an inch or so and I tried to shut it. It wouldn't budge. Curious, I then tried to OPEN it. Same deal. I flew around for a few more minutes, then landed normally.

Around that time, many of us noted an RV9 pilot who destroyed his airplane after becoming unnerved and completely distracted, losing control near the ground trying to deal with an unlatched canopy. I cannot recall if it was a tip-up or slider. Either way, his experience was so unnecessary.

From my perspective, wearing a parachute in an RV might give one the warm and fuzzies, but good luck just trying to open that canopy if not rigged to be jettasonable.
 
I have a friend who had a 6A with tip-up canopy that popped open during cruise. He was doing 180 to 200 mph at 4 to 5000 feet alt. and had a friend with him that was 6' tall and maybe 190 pounds. When the canopy popped open it jerked the stick out of his hand and began a rapid decent and soon redlined. The friend with him tried to pull the canopy down but could not budge it (And this guy is strong as an ox!) until the airplane was under control and slowed down to near stall speed. They lost several thousand feet altitude! Had they been down low they would not be here today!

The early plans didn't show the latch mech. very well. As I understand it the latch hit against the structure behind the latch mechanism which kept it from seating completely. He fixed that and developed a safety catch to see it never happened again. A tip up popping open at speed is a serious problem!

When he reported it to Vans they never heard of anyone else having the canopy pop open. This happened 6 or 7 years ago.
 
Interesting comments, so far - thanks for sharing them. I've wondered about the consequences of a tip-up latch releasing in flight and DSmith's war story is probably a 'worst case' since speed seems a critical variable in flight performance when this happens.

BTW Tim Fleming - the guy in the video - did not intentionally release the canopy latching mechanism. If you listen to his intro, his initial plan was to t/o and maneuver the plane, attempting to induce the release that the student & instructor reported. Happened to him much sooner than he'd planned.

One takeaway from me is to look more closely at the latching mechanism on the RV I ended up choosing. Something I hadn't (but should have) considered...

Jack
 
Jack Tyler said:
One takeaway from me is to look more closely at the latching mechanism on the RV I ended up choosing. Something I hadn't (but should have) considered...

Jack
Click to expand...

The DSmith's war story should have never happened if the person that installed the canopy latch had noticed that it was not a solid latch. F-605 will not allow the latch to cam over without drilling into F-605 to allow the beak of the weldment to pass through F-605. If all of the old RV6's were built without relief in F-605, you would hear more stories like Smith's.

Look at your project and understand what the part is expected to do and then make sure the part will do it. A spar, you will need to trust the engineer. But a latch should be within your grasp at how it will work.
 
BTW, the canopy in the RV-9 does not open as much as in that Sport Cruiser. For the most part it floats open only about two the three inches. (Yes, I tested it during my 40.)

Any paper in the plane will be sucked out. Who knows, it might have sucked out all the dirt as well.

With the -9, get to altitude, slow the plane down, put out all the flaps, and then you can easily close the canopy. (65 MPH works good.) Do NOT do this close to the ground and if you are uncomfortable doing this in the air, land, close it, and then take off again.

The RV's flying qualities are not impacted and if the ROC was reduced; well, the RV's are so over powered, I didn't notice.

The one time I left my canopy open unintentionally, shortly after lifting the tail, the canopy lifted. I had enough time to recognize the issue and stop the plane before the halfway point on our 2300' runway. A short taxi back and canopy check got me on my way again.

This should never be a reason to damage the airplane. Just fly the thing and all we be good.
 
RV-6A Tipup canopy open in flight

Rick6a said:
My very first RV flight ever was in a tip-up RV6 when the transient pilot unexpectedly dropped in at our sleepy little airport for the purposes of visiting family living in the area. After touring my hangar and reviewing the RV-6A in the final stages of assembly, he noted I had never flown in an RV before. Even though he just completed a long cross country, he invited me for a brief introductory flight. How could I say no? After climbing aboard and strapping in, I marveled at the view, the airplane, everything. We chatted as we back-taxied to the active and I had a million questions to ask him. Soon, we lined up on the active and he advanced the throttle. The pilot failed to latch the canopy but did not discover the error until we rotated. The canopy only rose up a few inches and as he flew, tried repeatedly to pull it shut....to no avail. He then asked me to try to close it as he flew the airplane. I tried to pull that canopy closed but the effort proved useless. It was only after bringing the plane to near stall was I able to muster the strength to finally shut and lock it. The pilot was clearly embarrassed by all this but I didn't care, I just wanted a little stick time and instantly discovered how delightful an RV handles. We landed uneventfully.

Fast forward one year. My -6A now flying, I forgot to latch the slider canopy but did not notice the condition until airborne and noted something just did not sound right. The canopy was open an inch or so and I tried to shut it. It wouldn't budge. Curious, I then tried to OPEN it. Same deal. I flew around for a few more minutes, then landed normally.

Around that time, many of us noted an RV9 pilot who destroyed his airplane after becoming unnerved and completely distracted, losing control near the ground trying to deal with an unlatched canopy. I cannot recall if it was a tip-up or slider. Either way, his experience was so unnecessary.

From my perspective, wearing a parachute in an RV might give one the warm and fuzzies, but good luck just trying to open that canopy if not rigged to be jettasonable.
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Interesting debate. I tested this condition in my RV-6A years ago, and posted an article on the "RV LIST" with the results. I initiated testing because an RV-6 driver was killed when he lost the elevator (Push rod bolt) in-flight and was killed. What I did was to open the canopy in-flight, and use the trim to stablize for level flight. In level flight, the canopy only opens a couple of inches. I successfully demonstrated that the aircraft could be safely landed without pilot elevator control input, by using the canopy as a replacement elevator. Opening the canopy further caused the nose to fall, closing it further casued the nose to rise. The canopy is a lifting surface! This technique would not work when the flaps were put down.....
 
bkthomps said:
it'd be nice if the guy in the video could at least make his pattern calls
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I noticed that too. I also thought that for someone who was planning to do a circuit with the canopy unlatched, it was rather poor planning to be wearing a ball cap. In fact, to do that without a military-style helmet with face visor seems risky. If everything went wrong and the canopy departed for some reason, he'd lose his headset and hat, and likely his glasses too. Flying at that point wouldn't be any fun at all.
 
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