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DaveWelch

Well Known Member
I'm looking to calculate an average of actual times to build each portion of the RV12 kit i.e Fuse, Wings, etc. If anyone has developed such a thing, I'd appreciate knowing about it, otherwise, would appreciate your log totals or estimates for each of the kit sections. Just the total hours for each would be very much appreciated!
Wings
Empenage
Fuselage
Finish Kit
FWF
Avionics

Thanks!

Dave.
RV-12 #121 Wings, Fuse and Emp done so far.
 
I would strongly suggest you take a look at my kit log, click on the link below. You can follow it from the start in February and come up with some really accurate build times. Keep in mine I am building in my heated/air conditioned garage and that I am retired. Be sure to subtract the three "vacations" I have had since the start.
 
Build times

DaveWelch said:
I'm looking to calculate an average of actual times to build each portion of the RV12 kit i.e Fuse, Wings, etc. If anyone has developed such a thing, I'd appreciate knowing about it, otherwise, would appreciate your log totals or estimates for each of the kit sections. Just the total hours for each would be very much appreciated!
Wings
Empennage
Fuselage
Finish Kit
FWF
Avionics

Thanks!

Dave.
RV-12 #121 Wings, Fuse and Emp done so far.
Click to expand...

Wings ............. 212 hrs
Empennage....... 118 hrs
Fuselage.......... 345 hrs
Finish.............. 281 hrs
FWF................ 92 hrs
Avionics........... 31 hrs (Dynon 180 panel)

Options:
Dual Display..... 12 hrs (Dynon 100)
Lighting Kit...... 36 hrs
Autopilot......... 20 hrs

Tony
 
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From my builder's log. If I build another, I would estimate the total time to be about 60-70% of what it took for the first.

Total Time for the Project
Total Time - 1121 Hours (For a newbie-builder, Lots of learning time.)

Engine Kit and Final Assembly - 191 Hours
Avionics Kit - 43 Hours
Finish Kit - 290 Hours
Fuselage Kit - 285 Hours
Empennage Kit - 137 Hours
Wing Kit - 175 Hours

Wing Kit Started on August 28, 2008
Final Assembly Completed on October 23, 2009

BUT did NO work in October 2008, November 2008 and July 2009 because I was waiting for the next kit to be announced. (Sort of like now with the guys awaiting the Skyview).
 
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My numbers are in line with Tony and Marty's. There are a couple of variables which will affect the time it takes to build. If you only can fit in an hour or two at a time, things will go slower. I am semi retired so I was able to work in 4-6 hour blocks. Once you get things set up and establish a rhythm they go faster. Another variable is the number and type of tools. I bought 2 hand rivet squeezers and borrowed a third. It was a real time saver having one set for riveting and the others for dimpling. I only bought one micro-stop tool for countersinking. I should have bought 2, one for 1/8" and one for 3/32"

Lastly, how much space do you have to work? I built mine in a hanger where I had plenty of room. All the parts were laid out on shelves where I could find them easily. I had 2 work benches so I could spread out and have parts lined up in the order I needed them. If you are working in a garage and the wife insists in putting her car in your airplane factory, things will be a lot slower.
 
Mark is correct on tools. I also bought two hand rivet squeezers, used them sorta like Mark did, but added a pneumatic squeezer as well, two hand squeezers make a lot of time difference, highly recommended. Proper deburring tools will make a big difference too, you will spend lots of hours just deburring parts. I found a Sears power screwdriver and the Avery tool made a BIG difference in deburr times, along with the $10 rotary scotchbrite tool.
I elected to NOT keep track of times since I tend to spend LOTS of time thinking out a situation, trying out new ideas, and was not sure just how to count my time. It went very fast despite my thinking processes.
 
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Build Times

Thanks to each of you who have replied so far. Hopefully others will also so I can get a better average. Also appreciate your comments and suggestions, hopefully they'll benefit other builders too. Dittoes on the multiple tool recommendations, I've spent a lot of time changing them when having another drill and tool would have really made things a LOT faster.

Here's what I'm up to. I have a partner who wants to buy into my partly finished kit (Wings, Emp, Fuse so far). Just like several of you have commented, I have worked on it off and on for 3 years with breaks for funds, family, work and so on. Add to that my fairly "finicky" attention to detail and finishing edges as well as "thinking time" and I'm sure to have gone well past Van's 900 hour estimate.

Doesn't seem fair to "bill" the partner for my obsesive attention on the edges (that was my choice), nor for time spent pondering and falling off the "learning curve", thus my request for other folks build times so I can come up with a fair average on what I've built so far.

Keep those times and suggestions coming, I'll tabulate all and post them when completed.

Clear Skys and more tools,
Dave
 
A person might look at it thinking you've already done the fun stuff, all that's left is the drudgery, and think that the price should be discounted for that.

Dave
 
Mark Henderson said:
I only bought one micro-stop tool for countersinking. I should have bought 2, one for 1/8" and one for 3/32"
Click to expand...

Suggest buying 3 countersink cages, one for the 1/8", one for the 3/32" AND ONE FOR THE OTHERS.

Will save a lot of time as you have to re-adjust, practice on scrap, each time you change the cutter..
 
Build time

I'm just under 600 hours into the build and I think Van's estimate of 900 hrs is realistic provided you don't need a lot of `thinking time' and err on the side of practical rather than perfectionist. Also the amount of priming you choose to do has a significant effect on the total hours.

So far I have completed the empennage, wings minus wingtips and lights, and about half the fuselage. I think my build will take 1000-1100 hours including a fair amount of priming. I initially decided to prime only mating surfaces and the parts that Van's required, but I have ended up priming most of the interior surfaces.

I figure that building an RV-12 is 80% repetitive, tedious, boring preparation, 20% fun (assembling parts) and 100% satisfaction, less 5% for errors and re-work.
 
Discount for Fun

David Paule said:
A person might look at it thinking you've already done the fun stuff, all that's left is the drudgery, and think that the price should be discounted for that.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, I really like that attitude. Anyone out there who's thinking that way, please contact me. I have a business proposition! <grin>
Thanks,
Dave
 
Time to Build

rgmwa said:
I'm just under 600 hours into the build and I think Van's estimate of 900 hrs is realistic provided you don't need a lot of `thinking time' and err on the side of practical rather than perfectionist. Also the amount of priming you choose to do has a significant effect on the total hours.

So far I have completed the empennage, wings minus wingtips and lights, and about half the fuselage. I think my build will take 1000-1100 hours including a fair amount of priming. I initially decided to prime only mating surfaces and the parts that Van's required, but I have ended up priming most of the interior surfaces.

I figure that building an RV-12 is 80% repetitive, tedious, boring preparation, 20% fun (assembling parts) and 100% satisfaction, less 5% for errors and re-work.
Click to expand...

rgmwa,
Looks like you're about on par with me and those who have responded. Concur with your % analysis of the build experience. I also started priming the interior structure and skins for the emp and wings. By the time I got to the fuse, we were having so much cold weather it was impossible to prime so will prime the fuse later or use CorrosionX which I like a lot anyway.
Also, from another of your posts, it sounds like we're both doing the RV12 as another "part-time" job on top of earning a living. Makes a nice respite from the office and gives a lot of satisfaction. House and cars are missing the attention though! Lady of the house has been very patient and supportive, though I think it has something to do with the promise of quicker travel to see the grand-children <grin>.
All the best,
Dave
 
DaveWelch said:
rgmwa,
Looks like you're about on par with me and those who have responded. Concur with your % analysis of the build experience. I also started priming the interior structure and skins for the emp and wings. By the time I got to the fuse, we were having so much cold weather it was impossible to prime so will prime the fuse later or use CorrosionX which I like a lot anyway.
Also, from another of your posts, it sounds like we're both doing the RV12 as another "part-time" job on top of earning a living. Makes a nice respite from the office and gives a lot of satisfaction. House and cars are missing the attention though! Lady of the house has been very patient and supportive, though I think it has something to do with the promise of quicker travel to see the grand-children <grin>.
All the best,
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,
Yep, still out there earning a living, with a few more years to go before I join the ranks of the voluntarily unemployed. Maybe more than a few if the world's economy keeps going downhill. Anyway the RV-12 is a great project to occupy what little spare time I have.

As it happens, I just took a couple of weeks leave and my dad (aged 92), who has been itching to `help', flew nearly 2,000 miles to come over and give me a hand to build the wings. We spent 10 days averaging 15 hours a day between us, and he left a couple of days ago with a big grin on his face and lots of photos. It was quite special to have the opportunity to spend the time together, and I told him that when the plane is finished next year, he can come over again and we'll fly back in it!

I'm also fortunate to have a wife who wouldn't know a rivet from a hammer, but for some reason happens to like planes and has been keen for us to have our own. Well, who am I to argue?

The kids are very interested too. I took my daughter flying a few weeks ago, and happened to run into my former instructor. She promptly informed him that `dad is building me a plane!'. My 9yr old grandson also checks out the half-finished co-pilot's seat every time he comes over. Clearly succession planning will not be an issue. Anyway, in the meantime the garden and the house renovations can wait a bit longer - maybe until I've retired. Probably won't have time then either. :)
 
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RGMWA,

Get your house and garden projects done now while you still have spare time. Once you retire you will have less time then you do now. At least that is my experience and that of most retired folks I know!!:) People joke about this but I find it to be true. Maybe I was more organized when I was working.
 
I like to tell people, "I have been retired since 1976, and if I get any more retired, I will have to hire someone to help me"
 
sandpiper said:
RGMWA,

Get your house and garden projects done now while you still have spare time. Once you retire you will have less time then you do now. At least that is my experience and that of most retired folks I know!!:) People joke about this but I find it to be true. Maybe I was more organized when I was working.
Click to expand...

That's what my dad says. He's been retired for 30 years and is busier than ever!
 
These build times will vary a lot. I noticed that about a third of my build time is owed to prepping and priming aluminum surfaces. Had I just built it without doing this, I might already be flying my bird ...
 
MacPara said:
These build times will vary a lot. I noticed that about a third of my build time is owed to prepping and priming aluminum surfaces. Had I just built it without doing this, I might already be flying my bird ...
Click to expand...

No, you would still be waiting on the Skyview system!
 
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