[andrew phillips]

First of all, no offense to any real instructors!

One of the local RV builders with over 800 hrs and a commercial rating needs to have me give him instruction in an RV so that his insurance company will cover him for first flight. My credentials: 200 hrs + 3 hrs acro and 7 hrs towards night rating. I thought it was funny that you didn't need professional instruction here in order to do solo acrobatics but I think this is even funnier!

In the spirit of the apprentice system on which flight training is based I will endeavor to provide him with all the information Mike Seager bestowed on me. Now where did I put those training notes?

 

[frankh]

I assume

He checked with his insurance company and your "instruction" satisfies their requirements?

Are you going to "Instruct" from the right seat or the left?..Who is PIC during these flights?

I think you need to be careful here because clearly you are not an instructor and if anything goes wrong the last thing you want is your friend saying to his insurance (Or FSDO) that he was getting instruction from your good self.

i think as long as HE is PIC and your flying in the left seat (presumably where you learned to fly the RV) you should be OK..Either that or you are PIC and letting him take controls in your airplane..Now are you going to teach him to land it?

Be careful though, making sure your both telling the same story if there was say a ground loop would be a good idea..

I'm not opposed to what you are suggesting..it has been known that other RV pilots have done aerobatics in their own airplanes after I became PIC briefly and did a few manouvers from the right seat...I was amazed they seemed to just copy what I did..I really couldn't stop them..

Frank

 

[andrew phillips]

Thinking this one through

Only people that are specifically listed, as pilots on my plane, on my insurance policy are covered during flight. In Canada, only one person can record PIC hours during a flight with an instructor even if the student is a licensed pilot. This is usually the instructor with student recording his hours as dual time.This "student" is tactually a very well qualified pilot that has just not had his hands on the controls of an RV.

I figure that I will fly from left seat (my usual spot) and will be PIC. He will be able to fly from the right seat as my guest. Technically, I will be in command at all times and log the hours as my own. He will log them as dual. I wonder if that is even right. If I am not an instructor then how can you have dual hours?

In reality, I will not be an instructor, but rather someone who lets another pilot fly their plane while under their supervision.

I guess that the issue for the insurance company is not that that this guy is not a good pilot but without any RV time is it a good idea for him to do a first flight of an unproven aircraft. With some time in my plane he should have a good feel for how an RV is supposed to fly.

 

[pierre smith]

Hi Andrew..

How do your Canadian regs read regarding dual?

Here in the USA, it has to be given by a certied Flight Instructor, the exception being the Military...I don't know about their regs.

It's great of you to be so generous with your time and airplane...if he's as good a pilot as you say, he should be able to get a feel for the RV quickly and be able to fly his own, from either seat.

How familiar are you with engine-out best glide speeds, turnbacks/no turnbacks after an engine failure and so on...these are things instructors routinely have to adress and regular pilots take for granted.

I'd be sure that your insurance is valid under this proposed scenario.

Regards,

 

[andrew phillips]

Thanks Pierre

All good advice!!! I bet that my ideas about how to record hours are probably wrong since I am not an instructor.

What we are doing must be familiarization flights and not instruction!

When I posted this I was afraid of huge FLAMES so I just wanted to say thanks to those who have replied with EXCELLENT things for me to consider. I wish to conduct myself in a professional and law abiding manner and if I can help a fellow RV pilot at the same time then so be it. As the other pilot has way more overall experience than myself I'm sure this endeavor will be good pilot training for me too.

 

[Lycosaurus]

Checkout

.... What we are doing must be familiarization flights and not instruction! ...

Andy,

As far as I know, you cannot log dual time unless you are with a qualified instructor in your situation.

As far as 'giving instruction', I would refer to it as a pilot checkout on the airplane. The PIC would be at the controls, log the time, and show that he/she is capable of handling the aircraft safely and is aware of the subtleties of the aircraft. You would be monitoring the PIC, and assist or takeover if things go wrong. You ultimately would sign-off the PIC's logbook to indicate that you gave him a checkout on the aircraft.

You may want to research this further, and verify that your certificate qualifications allow you to be the checkout pilot.

 

[AZtailwind]

Check your insurance

Andy ... Been there: But in my situation I was the PIC of his plane. He needs to log the hours as PIC, That is what this is all for. When both are PIC, let him log the hours except under your demonstration landings and approaches slow flight etc- Who sits where should not be a factor. "So to be technically correct under the regs." This is a familiarization flight. Both are logging PIC time. There should be no dual logged. Flion needs to chime in here- As he asked his insurance as specifics to needing 4 hours logged or 4 hours of dual instruction logged to be fully insured. Insurance company came back with "four hours PIC and no dual required". I would recommend to check for specifics of the insurance company and get both pilots under the policy to be safe. FWIW-

 

[flyboy1963]

PIC / training

Hi Andrew,
I agree with Alfio.....I did a similar scenario here in BC, although I was also doing my recurrency, so HAD to have a CFI for that. Other RV guys in the area give 'checkrides'.
I recall Marsh insurance ( in my particular case) required a certified instructor with time on type, whereas AIM required a 'qualified pilot' with no specific time needed.
so we have to satisfy the regs, and the insurer!?

 

[N941WR]

Andrew,

A friend of mine let me fly his RV-6 from the right seat for the three hours my insurance company wanted before I would be covered for the first flight in my -9.

This is an insurance requirement, not the FAA's, or your Canadian equivalent.

If your friend is current, licensed, and has a medical he is the one who logs the PIC time and you log nothing. At least that's how we did it.

 

[dhall_polo]

my insurance sitch

I didn't have enough t-dragger time to satisfy my insurance requirement for first flight. They approved an experienced RV/Taildragger pilot to do first flight *and* provide me with transition training (in another plane). They specifically did not require that my transition training be done by a CFI.

A bit of a different situation than what is described here because trainer had much more experience than the trainee(me).

Don