[bhassel]

Just looking for some insight. What are some of the 'above and beyond' things (from the stock kit) that you've done on your build or seen other builders do and wished you had thought of? Pictures welcome!

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Mike S]

Get it done and flying????

 

[bhassel]

Upgrades

Ha! Well I'm in a hold mode for now but have seen things like the Grove nose wheel, brakes, etc as well as member comments about how they saw things on other RV's that they wished they had thought of.

It would be great to have a list of those great ideas!

 

[mcencula]

Here's my list so far (part 1 of 2):

Things I've done:
Remade the joggled angles to eliminate the bulge on the outside face. Notice how the stock joggle (top) overlaps the scale a bit, while the bottom joggle legs are both parallel. I dunno if that bulge would show through the skin, but I didn't want to find out.

Left the inboard three wing ribs out until last. It made it a lot easier to buck the skin rivets, but a special bucking bar was required to buck the rivets that attach these ribs to the rear spar under the flap brace.

Delayed assembling the firewall until the forward skins, longerons, etc have been all drilled to the firewall. It also allowed me to drill and dimple many accessories to the firewall before assembly including:

• Brake fluid reservoir (I used nutplates here instead of bolts and nuts)
• Battery box
• Master and starter contactors
• Fuel pressure manifold
• Heater box

Tweaked the flanges of the flap braces near the inboard end to avoid an unsightly flaring of the bottom wing skin.

Installed solid rivets on both the top and bottom of the aileron spar using a long steel bar to span through the aileron and this custom bucking bar which was guided on the long steel bar. I simply slid it along the bar lengthwise to buck the rivets against:

Delayed riveting sub-assemblies of the fuselage together until (nearly) all of the match drilling is complete. This was mostly done to allow me to work in the basement shop this winter before moving the fuselage to the garage for riveting. However, delaying the riveting allows you to see more of the interfaces and improve on Van's instructions. For example, where the landing gear weldment attaches to the lower longeron (-A model), the plans recommend countersinking through the side skin and longeron for a flush head bolt. In this case, the screw would have very little holding power on the skin. However, by delaying the riveting, I will be able to dimple the side skin so it fits into the longeron countersink.

Left the wings in the jigs until after both the top and bottom skins were on. Van's instructions say to remove them after riveting the top skins. After the top skins were on, I re-checked them for twist and found some in one of the wings. So I clamped the rear spars back up in the jigs before riveting on the bottom skins. This process resulted in essentially zero twist (one wing has about .010, the other is perfect).

 

[mcencula]

Here's my list so far (part 2 of 2):

Things I wish I had done:
Replaced the Van's brake fluid reservoir with one from Grove. It's much nicer.

Drilled and dimpled the top and bottom wing skins, the wing walk doubler, and the inboard most wing rib for nutplates to attach the wing gap fairings before riveting the shebang together.

Likewise, I wish I had drilled and dimpled the horizontal and vertical stabilizer for the nutplates that attach the empennage fairing before riveting.

Filed down the dimples on the rudder skins where they fit into the aluminum extrusion wedge. The dimples from one skin interfere slightly with the dimples from the other skin. It causes a slight bulge at every rivet. I didn't pick up on this until after assembly was completed.

Checked the main wing spar flange angles prior to starting assembly. I found out after the main ribs were on that the spar flanges were underbent. I had to drill out all the main rib rivets and tweak the spar flanges. Per Van's, the top flange is 88.5 +/-.5 degrees. Bottom flange is 89 +/-.5 degrees measured between flange and web (in the corner where the main ribs sit). Here are before and after pictures:

Checked the rear spar flange angles. The top flange angle was slightly off on my rear spar which caused the top skin to flare up slightly rather than laying down flat against the flap. I had to make a tool to tweak the bend angle after the wing was riveted together. Although it all came out well in the end, it would have been better if I had found this prior to riveting on the skins.

Checked the aluminum angles that are part of the aileron brackets for squareness prior to assembly. I found that the flanges of these angles were not 90 degrees and that resulted my outboard aileron brackets being canted inboard. This resulted in a problem with the aileron spacing between the two brackets. I had to create a special tool to straighten these out.

Things I'm planning to do:
Use DOT-4 brake fluid instead of the standard stuff. I like the fireproof property of the DOT-4. Of course it requires changing brake lines and o-rings to a compatible material (teflon and EPMD, respectively).

Add stiffeners to the floor of the tailcone in the two bays aft of the baggage bulkhead. Jamie Painter showed some images in this thread that convinced me I want stiffeners here.

Use Sikaflex on the roll bars of the tip-up canopy. Screws elsewhere per plans.

 

[Peter.Fruehling]

Here is a two for one...

This is a reinforcement of the vertical piece supporting the baggage cross beam as well as an O2 holder. (the piece that gets bent when everyone leans on it getting in or during the annual) You can't see it in the pic but I also put a little shelf in as additional support for the bottle right above the little red mark on the angle. The bottle rests on the shelf and is snugged down by the pressure straps.

The key is not just fabricating the angle and riveting it on to Van's piece. It needs to be tied in to the floor and the cross beam. That's where your strength will come from.

...lightning holes optional.

- Peter

PS - ...must confess the idea came from Tom Berge. This is my version.

 

[jsharkey]

Ditto!

Get it done and flying????

I agree - plus light and simple.
Jim Sharkey
RV6 - last details - I hope!

 

[grover]

oil door

saw an rv8 somewhere that had piano hinge on both ends of the oil door. one end was the normal hinge. the other end had one part of the hinge riveted to the door and the other riveted to the cowl. with the door closed, one could slide the pin in from inside the forward bag area, holding the door shut, with no exterior fasteners. clean, light and easy. wish I'd seen it prior to drilling my door for the normal 1/4 turn closures.

 

[frankh]

Easy

Become a billionair and retired instead of an engineer looking at being laid off..

 

[frankh]

I did the same thing

saw an rv8 somewhere that had piano hinge on both ends of the oil door. one end was the normal hinge. the other end had one part of the hinge riveted to the door and the other riveted to the cowl. with the door closed, one could slide the pin in from inside the forward bag area, holding the door shut, with no exterior fasteners. clean, light and easy. wish I'd seen it prior to drilling my door for the normal 1/4 turn closures.

But on my 7a..The closed TU canopy keeps the hinge pin from sliding out. The proper hinge is also hidden so you don't see any hardware from the outside.

Frank

 

[Greg Arehart]

Two mods that I did on my 9A:

1: Added a remote camera mount. Not your typical forward-looking camera, but a high-res digital camera (12 Mpxl) that is mounted in the bottom of the R wing. It is on a two-axis gimbal that allows it to swivel 30 degrees L/R and/or F/A, controllable from the cockpit. Camera (I use a Canon digital) goes in the box and outputs to a laptop in the cockpit (which also controls focus, zoom, etc.).



2: Added a small baggage extension behind the standard baggage bulkhead. I cut the baggage bulkhead and put a hinge between the two pieces so that this area can be closed off (out of sight, less likely to be pilfered). Only light stuff goes in here (extra headset, hats, etc.)




greg

 

[Rick6a]

Bulkhead Caps

It goes against my nature to cover anything up permanently. That is why I made all floors and even
the smallest fiberglass fairing tip removable with screws and nutplates. Because the substantial width
of the bulkhead covers in the -8 series is greater than other RV's, I made them more utilitarian
with the addition of simple access covers. Any future wiring needs should be greatly simplified because
I took the time to fabricate them. I believe I am the first builder to have done this.

 

[bhassel]

Great Tips

These are great tips!

Thanks!

Bob

 

[BuckWynd]

I would have used these nutplates.

If I had to do it all again, I would pause every time I saw a callout for flat "K1000"
nutplates -- and ask myself if it might be easier and more appropriate to use a "K-suffix"
dimpled nutplate, such as the MS21047L08K illustrated below.

Sure, you can dimple the ears of a "flat" nutplate, but I never entirely liked the outcome
of that process when I did it. This is one case where buying pre-dimpled nutplates
would have saved me a ton of time, especially in such projects as installing 118
nutplates for removable floorboards (!).

BTW, Van's calls 'em platenuts. I've always called them nutplates. Is that a regional thing? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Kokemiller]

tank dies

I dimple the k1000 platenuts with tank dies with very good results. I had to grind the side of the female die for better clearance but doesn't affect quality of dimple.

 

[Rick6a]

If It Quacks Like a Duck.....

......Sure, you can dimple the ears of a "flat" nutplate.....I've always called them nutplates. Is that a regional thing? Inquiring minds want to know...

Even on the shop floor in St. Louis where combat aircraft production was not too long ago the region's dominant employer, "platenut" and "nutplate" are interchangeable. That's Missouri for you. We can't even agree upon Missouree or Missourah as the correct pronunciation.

If I counted all the nutplates I have ever installed it would easily number in the many thousands. If I restrict the discussion to RV's, it would include a few hundred platenuts and that includes among other things making all the floors removable with screws and nutplates. In no case have I ever installed or even felt the need to install a single dimpled platenut. I'm sure that is because (as my former employer almost always directed) I routinely use NAS1097 rivets to attach nutplates. On thin sheet thicknesses commonly used on RV's the NAS1097 rivet is ideally suited to attach platenuts.

 

[frankh]

Build..

1) Tuckey tanks on the outboard wing bays..
2) Extended baggage area
3) An IO540 up front...
4) Modified fuel pump system..OK I already did that one..

Frank

 

[flion]

I routed my intercom jacks to be on the crossbrace between the seats at the top of the flap motor enclosure. That way my headphone wires are behind me (my ANR controls, either Bose or Lightspeed, lie between the seats without putting stress on the wires or plugs) instead of dangling between the panel and my lap.

I wish I had done a little better planning on putting in my Lightspeed ignition boxes. I put them on top of the rails I made, which makes them a pain to get to from under the panel. I didn't put access panels on the forward deck, either, because I didn't want to weaken that skin. Inverting the rails sounds simple but means that I have to redo some of the wiring or move the rails upwards by the thickness of the control boxes - neither of which is trivial. But I will probably bite the bullet anyway. Which leads to: close the deck first, then wire and plumb your panel. It's easier to wire and plumb with the deck off but it also leads to mistakes like I made. Having it closed forces you to plan for the conditions you will have after you are flying.

 

[glenn654]

There are so many great mods here. I wish there was a specific link to reference these so I won't have to try to remember the best words to do a forum search. I'm sure someone here knows how to do such a thing and maybe group them by model,too. That would be cool.....

Glenn Wilkinson

 

[GrayHawk]

Two mods that I did on my 9A:

1: Added a remote camera mount. Not your typical forward-looking camera, but a high-res digital camera (12 Mpxl) that is mounted in the bottom of the R wing. It is on a two-axis gimbal that allows it to swivel 30 degrees L/R and/or F/A, controllable from the cockpit. Camera (I use a Canon digital) goes in the box and outputs to a laptop in the cockpit (which also controls focus, zoom, etc.).

greg

Is there a writeup on this somewhere?? For example, what are you shooting through with that high class camera? plexiglass? Safety Glass?

 

[rv72004]

Even on the shop floor in St. Louis where combat aircraft production was not too long ago the region's dominant employer, "platenut" and "nutplate" are interchangeable. That's Missouri for you. We can't even agree upon Missouree or Missourah as the correct pronunciation.

If I counted all the nutplates I have ever installed it would easily number in the many thousands. If I restrict the discussion to RV's, it would include a few hundred platenuts and that includes among other things making all the floors removable with screws and nutplates. In no case have I ever installed or even felt the need to install a single dimpled platenut. I'm sure that is because (as my former employer almost always directed) I routinely use NAS1097 rivets to attach nutplates. On thin sheet thicknesses commonly used on RV's the NAS1097 rivet is ideally suited to attach platenuts.

Rick, does the dimpled sheet not cause the platenut to stand off ? Could you detail the sequence with the NAS rivets. Thanks

 

[Rick6a]

Rick, does the dimpled sheet not cause the platenut to stand off ? Could you detail the sequence with the NAS rivets. Thanks

EJ,

In the post, I was referring to the type of platenut that requires you to dimple the 2 rivet attach holes, a type I have never felt any need to use:

Of course, when a sheet is dimpled so the screw is flush with the surface such as is used on inspection covers, I use K1100 (dimple) type platenuts. Sorry for the confusion.​

 

[gasman]

EJ,

In the post, I was referring to the type of platenut that requires you to dimple the 2 rivet attach holes, a type I have never felt any need to use:

Of course, when a sheet is dimpled so the screw is flush with the surface such as is used on inspection covers, I use K1100 (dimple) type platenuts. Sorry for the confusion.​

Rick, I think what EJ is asking is how do you machine c/s and then use the rivets that you describe above.

His question was........ if you dimple the part to rivet the nutplate (USAF) to, the nutplate can't lay flat to the part.... at the rivets.

OVERSIZE SHANK RIVETS
These NAS1097 rivets feature a 1/8" diameter shank with a head size that of a 3/32" rivet. Perfect when rivet hole becomes enlarged requiring 1/8" shank but 3/32" head matches the rest of your 3/32" rivets. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/othersizerivets.php

 

[Rick6a]

Clear as Mud?

....... if you dimple the part to rivet the nutplate (USAF) to, the nutplate can't lay flat to the part.... at the rivets.

I do try to be clear when explaining things and apparently fell short in this particular case. So let me try to explain it all a bit differently. Shown on the left is a part that has been dimpled to accept a total of six K1100 nutplates. Shown on the right is its mating cover. Notice the cover on the right has a series of 6 dimpled holes in it. That cover will accept flush head screws. Okay then, if you are not aware, a K1100 type nutplate is manufactured in such a way as to accept dimpled sheet while laying flush. I suspect this fact may be the source of confusion in some minds. Nevertheless, for illustration, see the smaller picture inserted into the larger picture with the arrow pointing towards it. This insert clearly shows rivet shop heads set into a K1100 nutplate sitting perfectly flush against its mating surface. Now the K1100 is attached just like most other nutplates...using two AD3 rivets. My original point was merely suggesting that NAS1097AD3 rivets are more suitable than AN426 rivets for attaching nutplates, any nutplates.

 

[Brantel]

OVERSIZE SHANK RIVETS
These NAS1097 rivets feature a 1/8" diameter shank with a head size that of a 3/32" rivet. Perfect when rivet hole becomes enlarged requiring 1/8" shank but 3/32" head matches the rest of your 3/32" rivets. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/othersizerivets.php

There is also a AD3 version of these that has a 3/32" shank and a very short manufactured head so that you only have to very lightly countersink the hole your putting them in. This is what Rick is using to prevent having to dimple the sheetmetal rivet holes and the ears of the nutplates.

Works great but so does just dimpling the sheet metal rivet holes and the ears of the nutplate. If I had the 1097 rivets, I would do it that way but I never did buy any and have done all mine the dimpling route.

 

[derLuigi]

You can get them from Van's

I also use the NAS1097 AD3 rivets and like them very much. Van's has some lengths of them in stock, they're not listed in the catalogue though. You can order them by phone.

 

[Dave Cole]

Agreed...

unsing NAS1097 AD3 rivets is by far the quickest way to install nutplates in thin sheet.

 

[gasman]

Rick, does the dimpled sheet not cause the platenut to stand off ? Could you detail the sequence with the NAS rivets. Thanks

EJ, To answer your question, with the use of the NAS1097AD3 rivets, they have a small head and there is no need to dimple
for this rivet. Just hand countersink a small amount into the surface that the rivet will pass through and the head will be flush.

And by doing this, you don't need to dimple THE EARS of the nutplate or use nutplates that have THE EARS DIMPLED.
The nutplate will set flat against the surface that you rivet it to.

 

[Greg Arehart]

Grayhawk,

Some of the details can be found in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=44320&page=2

I plan to (eventually) write this up more completely and post here as I have had several inquiries. Right now the airplane is in the paint shop and it's Air Race week, so my plate is still full.

I am using a plexiglass window behind a cutout that is similar to an inspection plate.

greg