kevinh

kevinh

Well Known Member
Hi ya'll,

How about a thread for builders who have completed their RV to write about things they would have done differently? Perhaps this would help our brothers and sisters who are still building avoid our mistakes. ;)

I'll start, on my RV-7A (QB, so I can't take too much credit...):

* I installed passenger toe brakes. Oops - not much benefit and just adds weight. Hell, I hardly have to use the pilot's side brakes even with the castering nosewheel. For a taildragger the passenger brakes may have some value.

* Drill a tube inflation hole in the nose pant (or use nutplates on the attach bracket) before putting the pants on the plane. I figured I'd fly it for a while to see how annoying I found putting the nose on blocks just to add air - suffice it to say, it's damned annoying.

* If you have an O-360 and a Hartzell prop (like me) - perhaps put the strobe supply and ELT forward of the baggage wall. My weight and balance is pretty good, but with two 170lbers, the baggage is limited to 80 lbs due to CG constraints.

* For the wingtip antennas, consider using RG-58 rather than RG-400 coax. The loss isn't such a big deal (assuming we're talking com 2 and VOR) and it weighs less.

* I left out map pockets, figuring I'd see if I needed them. Um - I now see that I need them.

Things I'm happy with:

* Parking brake

* Non av strobe power supply

* Using prefab multistrand 22 awg bundles for the auto pilot wiring. Much smaller than rolling my own.

* A short length of flexible PVC as wiring conduit under the baggage floor.

* The whimpy Van's (manual or electric) spring system for roll trim works just fine.

* No interior other than carpet on the floor and nice seats.

Kevin
 
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Six of One, Half Dozen of the Other.

For the next project, I've determined the following:

No fancy Flap Position Indicator. Rarely use it. Quickly learned you can feel suitable flap deployment through your butt......or look out the bubble.

No attractively packaged and expensive prefabricated electrical buss system.

Not be tempted to 100% prime every single internal part prior to assembly. Next time, just prime the contact surfaces between mating parts. Epoxy primer, of course.

Lose those hefty RC Allen electric gyros and go with glass technology.

Omit the electric priming system. With Lasar ignition, it seems a waste.

Relocate OAT probe well away from the NACA scoop.


Things I will do EXACTLY the same:

Flaps, 2 axis electric trim, and PTT controlled though Infinity joystick grip.

PSS AOA....gotta love it. Takes the pucker factor out of slow flight and that base to final turn.

Lasar ignition.

Engine monitor.

Capacitive type fuel sending system.

Annunciator light for boost pump.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 78 hours
RV-8A empennage complete
 
Ok, I'll play

Next time...

- LED position lights

- AVI-PAK strobe power supply instead of Whelen (Bill Vondane, I'm looking forward to drop-in replacment combo LED position/strobe lights!)

- Michelin AirStop tubes from the get-go

- stiffeners on the aft/lower fuselage skins

- hard-wire the GMA-340's 20dB boost...the switch is always ON

- run a generic power circuit aft of F-706 (for stuff like hard-wiring headset power)

- install conduit going LATERALLY under the baggage skins

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (630 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
 
Here's a couple things I'll do differently next time:

I won't waste time with a flop tube. Unless you also have inverted oil it's useless and makes plumbing more difficult. Plus I don't like negative G stuff anyway.

I will put access holes in the forward fuse skin, to get behind the panel without getting under the panel.

Some things I'll do the same:

I love my cowl Camlocks. $$$ but worth it.

Oregon Aero seats. $$$ but very worth it.

Engine plenum. No cooling problems of any kind.

Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
 
dan said:
Next time...

- stiffeners on the aft/lower fuselage skins

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (630 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Click to expand...

Dan,
I sure am interested in your comments on the stiffeners (I see the pictures on your site). I am doing tailcone assembly right now. This would be the time to do it if I understood the issues.
 
fuselage stiffeners

scard said:
I sure am interested in your comments on the stiffeners (I see the pictures on your site). I am doing tailcone assembly right now. This would be the time to do it if I understood the issues.
Click to expand...

I haven't had time to do the write-up on my site yet, but here's the gist...

20050902_stiffeners.jpg


20050905_lower_stiffener_right.jpg


20050905_lower_stiffener_right2.jpg


I used J-channel and .025x5/8x5/8" angle. I drilled 1/4" "ooze holes" in a few locations along the stiffeners, and then just RTV'd them in place. It makes a huge difference in the skin puckering factor.

I had seen a couple of photos of my plane from angles where you can see a little puckering in the lower fuselage side skins between F-706 and F-708 below the stringers. By stiffening vertically above the stringers, and by stiffening horizontally right above the rudder cable, it makes a big difference.

With paint, you'd probably never notice this in flight. With a bare/polished plane, you might.

I definitely don't think they're necessary, but I do believe it improves the appearance of the plane in flight.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (630 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
 
Lateral conduit

Bob Collins said:
Gotta ask before I close 'em up. How would you use it?
Click to expand...

Well, put it this way -- if you have interior panels/fabric, you can do a LOT of wire hiding that I can't. I don't have any interior decor whatsoever other than my seat cushions and the footwell carpeting.

To make matters worse, I'm incredibly anal about not seeing any wires in the cockpit. So if I wanted to install some sort of jacks in F-705, for example, or in the back end of the arm rests, it would be a challenge to keep the wires hidden.

If I had conduit running laterally under the baggage floors, I could run wires down the center, through the tunnel, under the baggage floors, and up the back of F-705. It might sound convoluted to you if you have interior panels...I wouldn't be surprised if it does. Oh, well!

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
 
Rv-4

Really the only thing I would have done differently is to put RV-6 tanks on my RV-4. That little bit of extra fuel is priceless flying to and from OSH. IMO. Also probably would have done camloks on the cowling.
 
dan said:
It might sound convoluted to you if you have interior panels...I wouldn't be surprised if it does. Oh, well!
Click to expand...
It makes sense. I'm not anywhere near deciding on interior finish yet. Been working on getting the nutplates installed where the pop rivets are in this section and I had to order a bunch of alternative nutplates (8 days for UPS to deliver a package to Minnesota AFTER Van's gave it to em!), and that's slowed me down. Plus since this is a pay-as-you-go project, this summer has been more "go" than "pay." Now that it's starting to cool down here, I'm slowing down for the winter period so I can spend a little more time on little stuff in the interior. Doesn't look like fitting the wings is going to happen before spring now, but we'll see.

thanks for the tip.
 
The Next Project Will...

Different:

1. Prime (epoxy) only in areas later inaccessible for corrosion treatment (like the closed control surfaces) should it ever even be needed.

2. Install equipment with a mind to biasing the empty c.g. as far forward as possible.

3. Add extra holes facilitating unforeseen wire, tube, and hose runs past obstacles like the spars and baggage bulkhead.

4. Not waste time fussing with solid rivets when pops will do (trailing edges).

5. Forget prefitting for final match drilling of pre-punched assemblies. Haul from crate, final drill, deburr, tweak flanges, rivet. Thank you Van's.

6. Use the time gained by 4 and 5 to remedy the few dumb things in the design - like replacing the heavy 1/4 x 1/2 bar that's little more than a spacer for the slider rail, and properly joggle the mangled floor stiffeners Van's provides.

Same:

1. Satisfaction of best workmanship.

2. Continue to shun LED, plasma, and CRT displays. Higher failure rates and my eyes were designed for reflected, not projected, light.

3. Single point ground electrical system.

4. RV Grin.

John Siebold
 
//1. Prime (epoxy) only in areas later inaccessible for corrosion treatment (like the closed control surfaces) should it ever even be needed

As I move into the interior work, this situation is facing me more and more. Take the baggage area sidewalls, for example. I doubt corrision is going to be a problem there, but I primed 'em anyway because I might paint 'em. But that causes me all sorts of other problems. I probably don't really want to prime them until I'm ready to paint them. But I don't want to paint them now because I'm in and out of there and it's just going to get all beat up, but I 'm not altogether sure about the process for priming/painting the interior once it's all installed either.

Decisions...decisions....

In the end, I just primed it all with the SW wash primer. That nice green tint.. even without a top coat of paint....makes for a nice way of knocking down the alcad glare.
 
Floating nutplates

Bob said:
"Nutplating" the baggage area
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That reminds me of one thing I would have done differently - use floating nutplates. I'm sure they are a lot more expensive, but boy are they cool. I didn't even know they existed until a couple of weeks ago.
 
Re: nutplates on the baggage floor

This reminds me of something I was both unhappy with and happy about...

The thing I did poorly:

* Contrary to the Van's order form _steps are not optional on a 7A_ I was used to 6As and figured I could do without steps. Once my finish kit arrived and I saw the gear up close I was like "damn, I screwed up - I need steps". I had to remove the baggage floor to retrofit steps at that point.

This taught me something I did well:

* I used pop rivets for the baggage floor. Drilling out the pop rivets was super easy. I'd say it was about thirty minutes to drill out all the pop rivets and reinstall new ones. As long as you don't rivet the pushrod tunnel nutplates to the baggage floor it is painless to just drill out the pop rivets on the off chance you find the need.

(Of course if you have something like an ELT or or strobe under the floor you either need a door or nutplates)
 
I put my steps in (well, one side anyway) last week. They're primarily the reason I decided to put nutplates in.... to faciliate the inspection process.

I screwed up on the left step, though. I thought the length of the pipe was too long, it seemed to be hitting the rib on the original fitting. So I cut it by about 1/4". Everything went fine until I drilled for the lateral bolt and...surprise...it didn't "catch" any of the pipe. D;oh. So I ordered a second plastic block and I'll drillt hrough that one...and bolt it to the second one and the rib.

BTW, I used pop rivets to rivet the step to the side skin. There's 18 rivets there and the odds were I'd make one of 'em a smiley (well, OK, actually the odds were I'd make several of them with smileys), since I pretty much rivet on my own.

The pop rivets was very easy and I suppose if I get bored enough to fill the little holes, they'll look just as fine.

But I swear to God if I bang my head on that freakin' 705 bulkhead one more time....:rolleyes:
 
12v outlet in baggage

I took care of something I planned 2 years ago. thanks for the memory jog.
 
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What are floating nut plates?

rv8ch said:
That reminds me of one thing I would have done differently - use floating nutplates. I'm sure they are a lot more expensive, but boy are they cool. I didn't even know they existed until a couple of weeks ago.
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me. What are these and where do you get them, and why are the so great.


Duane
 
Nutplate types are almost infinite........

Floating nutplates come in two general types. By far, the floating nutplates RV'ers are most familiar with have the threaded element captured by bent metal tabs on the nutplate itself. A far less common type features a replaceable nut element captured by a sort of steel snap ring that retains the element in place. Floating nutplates are particularily desirable when used within a large pattern of holes because there is some leeway for a series of screws to find the element and thread into it cleanly. The threaded element literally moves or "floats" about the nutplate body.
2022do.jpg


This photo illustrates a 1/4" floating nutplate of the single leg type with a replaceable nut element. I used it through an existing (though enlarged) tooling hole in the elevator counterbalance area of my under construction RV-8A. Ordinarily, I would not use such a large nutplate, but this one serves perfectly to stack a series of washers on the opposite side to fine tune the balance of the control surface. It is just one example of the many, many nutplate types that have been designed for virtually any sheet metal situation.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 78 hours
RV-8A empennage complete
 
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1. Buy all my RG400 ant cables premade
2. install outside temp and carb temp during construction
3. run extra "tubes" under the floor to the rear for future wires
4. install auto pilot during construction (don't have it yet ... but saving for it ... and would have been MUCH easier to installation during construction)
 
...Next time

1) paint before assembly
2) wait to buy electronics/instruments until needed
3) pre drill wire runs and conduit in fuselage
4) concentrate on getting the basic bird flying and not so much on add-ons and do-dads.
5) do as much as possible at home in order to maintain good domestic relations and work efficiency. Hangers are uncomfortable and visitors hinder progress.
6) start sooner!
 
Paint before assembly

Vern said:
1) paint before assembly
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Why would you do this? I'm almost at the point where I have to decide whether I fly first or paint first. The problem is that the airplane painting places around here are *seriously* expensive, and the auto painting places don't have any or much experience painting aluminum, and they are also very expensive. I was thinking of flying first, then flying to a decent paint shop in another country.
 
Paint before assembly

rv8ch said:
Why would you do this? I'm almost at the point where I have to decide whether I fly first or paint first. The problem is that the airplane painting places around here are *seriously* expensive, and the auto painting places don't have any or much experience painting aluminum, and they are also very expensive. I was thinking of flying first, then flying to a decent paint shop in another country.
Click to expand...

I think this applies to those of us who plan to do our own painting. My son is getting ready to paint his 7A - in pieces in his garage, and I plan to do the same.

Dennis Glaeser
7A Wings
 
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