F

Firstlight

Active Member
Hello Group:

As most of you know, I had a small bit of airplane fall off and get sucked up the other night. I was really happy to receive lots of supportive words and offers of help.

I am fortunate to live in one of the many hotbeds of RV activity scattered around North America. My home airport is literally one mile south of Tom Martin's "Rocket Factory", near St Thomas, Ontario. Tom builds customs airplanes for people, and he contacted me with an offer to come and see if he could help me make a better airplane.

Tom met me out at my hangar this AM, bright and ugly at 07:15. He even brought me a cup of coffee. What a guy!

We pulled my sweetie out into the sun, and Tom spent the next two hours looking everything over in very fine detail. Tom works system by system, and goes slowly and methodically through the airplane. His experience in building a variety of RV type airplanes (I know he built an award winning '4 first, and went on to build a bunch of others including 7s, HRIIs, a bunch of F1s and a 10) is obvious, and he knew just where to look to find weak links that might make me an unhappy pilot one day.

I ended up with 4 pages of squawks, but I am truly happy with the list. I have a lot of experience in aviation, but the vast majority is in flying odd machines with little or no resemblance to an RV. Having access to Tom's skill and keen eye was a bit like hitching up a magic belt with 10,000 builder's hours in it - invaluable.

The airplane will be down for a while but when it is back up, it will be a better flying, more reliable airplane. That will make me a confident pilot, in a better position to enjoy the incredible privilege of flying the RV4...

Thanks to all the helpful members of the RV community, but especially to Tom!

See you in the Blue Room,

Wayne
 
Wayne
Do you think you could post the list, as it would serve as a pointer to traps even a conscientious builder like you may need to think about?
John
 
Wayne, you are a wize man to have someone else look the plane over. When I was flying UL's we would "trade" planes and look each other planes over. It is amazing what a guy can miss, and what you can point out on an other guys plane. I am confident we prevented several "situations" by looking at each other's planes.
 
I've been saying this for quite a while. Been taken to task about it a little too...

Around socal I take care of a dozen or so airplanes on the side, six of them RV's. I'll put it simply:

Mechanics inspect airplanes differently than builders. We look for things that builders wouldn't know to look for (and half the time, I don't know myself what exactly i'm looking for).

A little experience, and a "That doesn't look quite right..." attitude has probably saved more than a few lives around here.
 
Would like to see also

I always wonder what I might have missed while building, and wonder if my craft will hold together. Hearing suggestions from someone who has been there before is always helpful. If you publish the list, let me know. Thanks
 
Good habit

I am blessed to be able to live in an airpark where people are always around. Lots are mechanics. I have gotten into habit of having them look at my work to see if there are any land mines that I may have missed. Steven is right, mechanics see things a builder many not see.

Sure makes it easier to fix when things are open and accessible.

Great post for learning!!!!
 
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Here's a thread that I posted on the F1 forum a few days ago regarding control binding issues and tech counselor inspections, edited to remove irrelevant parts:


John and I have done more tech counselor final inspections than I can count and I am always amazed at how many builders think it's OK to have a loud scraping noise, clunk, squeak, binding, or outright interference when the controls are moved.

Probably 3/4 of the planes we've looked at have at least one of these issues.

These problems are NOT OK on any Van's type aircraft. A minimal cable sound from rudder cables gliding past the snap bushings is acceptable as long as you're not sawing aluminum.

And if something on your aircraft controls causes noise or binding... OMG... ground it immediately and fix it!

FWIW, John and I looked at an extremely well built Sonex last Monday and still managed to find about 6 squawks. This was after the FAA inspection had been passed. (Our FAA guys usually do a pretty good job of inspecting things.)

You may think you're good... but are you good enough to bet your life on it? Always, always, always have someone (or two) inspect your work before you go fly an new bird.

Rant over.
_________________
Vince Frazier

Regarding the posting of a 4 page list of squawks found, yes it might help someone, but MAKE NO MISTAKE it does NOT replace the need for someone other than you to do a thorough inspection of your bird BEFORE it ever taxis, flies, or gets FAA inspected.

You owe it to your loved ones to do all you can to stay safe. Not to mention that it helps keep all of our insurance rates low, keep the FAA off our backs, and keep our hobby out of the news.
 
A snag list for my airplane...

Hello Group:

Sorry to not get back to you earlier on this. My contract at work was just renewed this week (yeah!), but it means I'm too busy to have a life right now (boo!).

I'll be happy to post some items from my snag list for the group. A lot of them are things that are specific to my own airplane, and will not be of much use. Others will be useful for folks thinking about buying a ready-to-fly RV.

I am sitting in a refrigerated wind tunnel while I write this, and it is a bit too chilly to type right now. I'll try to bring the list tomorrow, and see if I can transcribe some items while waiting for equipment to get ready.

Cheers,

Wayne
 
I was pleased to take a look at Wayne?s RV4 on the weekend. A new RV owner at any airport is a wonderful thing and we all need to help in any way we can to make their flight experience both enjoyable and safe.
Over the years I have built a number of RVs and rockets and have also maintained these birds through 1500 hours of accumulated flight. This makes me well qualified to look for RV type issues, such as control linkages, fuel and electrical systems etc. I often read here, and elsewhere, about how new builders get other builders to take a look at their planes, and that is a good thing. Also the final inspection from a third party is another check in the system. However the final inspector may not be an aviation mechanic or even have built the type of plane that he, or she, is inspecting. The builders that have looked at your plane may have built just one plane, or many, as the case may be, but still, there are not that many builders that have experience with high time RV maintenance.
I have come to the conclusion that we must get professional mechanics involved with our aircraft on an ongoing basis. In no way am I advocating that this be legislated. I am not a licensed aviation mechanic and once a year I get my mechanic in to inspect my engine installation. His eyes see things that I miss, as he worked on hundreds of planes and does know the kinds of things that go wrong. This costs me very little money as he is often just there for an hour or two. Each of his visits is a learning experience for me as well, which in turn makes me a better, and I hope, a safer owner.
Yes get your peers to take a look at your project, as I did for Wayne, but please also get a professional to take a look. All of us, in our sport, suffer the consequences of an incident that could have been avoided.
 
Tom Martin said:
snip.... I have come to the conclusion that we must get professional mechanics involved with our aircraft on an ongoing basis. In no way am I advocating that this be legislated....snip
Click to expand...

Tom, you echo my beliefs exactly. I know just enough about the FWF of my RV to get me killed, which is why a HUGE chunk of the engine work is done by my A&P/AI buddy Randy. I pay good money for his expert eyes...and he always finds something that could be improved. I do it because *I* want to and I think it's a good practice that helps maximize a long happy flying career...not because I'm forced to, because I think it's wise. In another few years when I've learned a lot more, maybe I'll excercise that repairman's cert.

My plane is currently down for improvements/annual:
  • Randy is putting on some P-mags for me (I'll watch over his shoulder and try to learn something)
  • Randy is doing the annual (I help turn screws and take panels off/on. I fix the things he says to.
....and in all probability my plane won't fly again for another several days. Why? He's flying down to Houston to do the annual on Louise Hose's RV-6. Hard calendar date that can't move. I'm perfectly OK waiting. I was a business major that sat in a cube for a quarter century. I'm just now learning all this 'mechanic' stuff <g>.

He might miss something. I KNOW I'll miss something....but I'm trying to learn a little more each time.
 
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Get an expert

To add to the discussion I offer my own experience. I have built and flown and F1 Rocket for 425 plus hours. Over the last 3 years I competed an RV 10.
Over the 3 years it has been studied by many and has gone thru the full MDRA technical inspections required here in Canada. Recently, when it can time for first flight, the test pilot required that he and a AME inspect the plane. Numerous snags were found but three of the snags found are what I would consider critical. The years of training and experience of the test pilot and mechanic were invaluable.
 
Couldn't agree more with you guys. As a non-builder that's done a bit of house cleaning and some major projects on my six, the mentoring, assistance and eyeballs of the A&P with multiple RV build assists down the "block", the 3-time RV builder next door, and the two-time (RV and BD) builder bud and Reno RV BBQ host on this forum, has been utterly invaluable, and they eyes have caught many things.

The more work I do, the more comfortable I get with my work...but the more value I see in having those extra sets of eyes on my work. Sometimes it confirms all is well and provides that warm-fuzzy, sometimes it improves the design, and sometimes it catches little things that just make it more professional. All good stuff!

Oh, and those notes and phone calls to and from Tom and Wayne in the great white north have been very valuable and most appreciated as well! Thanks guys! ;)

If tinkering ever turns to building, I know I won't change a thing...smart friends are worth a million! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
Things to fix on *my own* RV4

Hello Group,

I apologize for the long delay in getting some of my snag list items on to the list. It is a busy time at work, and a busy time at home. But I am sitting beside some equipment and waiting for an experiment to get under way, so I bought my snag list to share some items.

Please keep in mind that this list refers to *my* airplane. I don't mean to imply anything at all about anybody else's airplane. I actually have a much longer list than this, but it is full of small "general housekeeping" type items that I won't bother transcribing.

Here are a few things that I thought worth sharing:

1.) Fuel line fittings that penetrate the firewall are aluminum. I plan to replace them with steel.

2.) Mixture adjustment range has a stiff spot near the idle cutoff position. I'll try to track down the source of the problem and adjust/replace as necessary.

3.) Starter wire penetration at the firewall is an old, soft rubber grommet. The grommet has worn enough internally that the cable is at risk of the insulation being cut through by the steel firewall. There is a long, unsupported run of cable that exacerbates this potentially lethal problem.

4.) The flap piano hinge wire has slipped 3/4" outboard in the hinge. This left the inboard two sections unsupported. More importantly, if left the inboard section of aileron to bind on it.

5.) The flap pushrods rod-end bearings on both sides are very tight and stiff. They need loosened up or replaced.

6.) There is a small but noticeable interference on the leading edge of the LHS aileron where a wing trailing edge rivet head is binding. You can feel it in the stick, and even hear it if you listen very closely in a quiet environment.

7.) elevator circuit needs lubrication, and possible shimming for perfect fit at stick connection.

8.) Horizontal stabilizer skin interference with elevator top surface skin at maximum deflection.

7.) and 8.) may be contributing to a slight binding feeling at maximum up elevator. I don't notice it in flight, but my RV4 time is so limited that I have to admit that doesn't mean much! Tom helped me see it on the ground, and I intend to rectify it.

Cheers and many hours of safe flying to all of you,

Wayne
 
Wayne Hadath said:
Over the 3 years it has been studied by many and has gone thru the full MDRA technical inspections required here in Canada. Recently, when it can time for first flight, the test pilot required that he and a AME inspect the plane. Numerous snags were found but three of the snags found are what I would consider critical.
Click to expand...

You've got me curious what the MDRA technial inspectors missed, but your test pilot and AME guy did catch. If you?ve got a few minutes, how 'bout telling us what they were, it might help somebody else.
 
Singing with the choir!

DeltaRomeo said:
[*]Randy is doing the annual (I help turn screws and take panels off/on. I fix the things he says to.[/LIST]....and in all probability my plane won't fly again for another several days. Why? He's flying down to Houston to do the annual on Louise Hose's RV-6.
Click to expand...

Boy, was this annual condition inspection a great example of how important the "multiple pairs of eyes" philosophy is. Paul and I did most of the work before Randy arrived. Randy still found maybe a half-dozen things he suggested addressing (or addressed himself) that we hadn't yet noticed. Then, Paul noticed yet another issue after he left. I grew a little discouraged with every concern that they pointed out but I would rather know (and address them) than not know. And, with a 20 year old RV that's been flown hard and sometimes put away sweaty, these issues are to be expected. BTW, Mikey flew beautifully this morning!
 
What they found

Wrongway John
The 3 issues were:
1. I have a fuel injected IO 540 and bolted to the bottom is a thottle body. It is secured to the sump by 4 studs with coarse threads. The nut used on these studs is a non locking syle and to secure the nut a star washer is used. For some reason and I am sure it seemed like the thing to do at the time, I installed first a metal flat washer then the star washer and then another flat washer and then the nut. The washers were well secured but the nut was bearing on a flat washer. I am curious to know how long those nuts would have stayed in place. I guess not curious enough to find out.
2. I have a Cessna style throttle, prop, mixture. I adjusted each of these cables to hit the stops before the control knob bottomed out. Aprox 1/8 inch.
What I did not realise is the friction nut for the throttle cable could vibrate out. This would act as a stop and would not allow full throttle. Getting full throttle went you want full throttle. I like that. I want that.
3. The RV 10 has a Matco nose wheel which has some issues if it is used stock. I bought a aftermaket upgrade that fits on the axle to mate with the Matco wheel. There are two securing allen screws which are lock wired. The allen screws were too long and the locking wire was abrating the aluminum hub. Easy fix. But how did I miss it in the first place?
Other smaller issues were regarding items that would be issues in the long term. Supporting of wires and too much play in control bushings.
There is alot to learn in this game.
 
Thanks for writing all of that out Wayne. I?m willing to listen to everybody that has something to share particularly when it comes to safety.

I?ve been reading more of the safety threads here, as well as other forums, and I?ve certainly heard my share of horror stories here lately. One involved a man bailing out of an 8 because it caught fire. Another happened at my hometown last month when a Cessna caught completely on fire right before takeoff. There was virtually nothing left of the plane. I'll certainly want to do everything possibly to prevent something like that happening.

Several involved others losing complete pitch control, with at least one ending in a fatality, and certainly want to be extra vigilant here too.

I remember reading from another man that had built a Teenie II many years back during its early years, and the plans had been followed to a T, but that turned out to be a big mistake. Since the plans had the wrong angle called for in the Horizontal Stabilizer, he went to level off, but the plane kept climbing. He had to pitch the elevator all of the way down, but was still climbing! He tried using trim next to see if that would help, and I think that pretty much leveled him off, or was giving him only a slight climb now. He reduced the throttle, and with the combination of everything else he did, that gave him just enough of a slight pitch to eventually bring it back down to earth. Not sure how long that took. :D But he got it down safely, and that's what counts.

So, I?m glad we have threads like these, and everybody is sharing their stories, letting others look over their planes. But I don?t mind telling ya, after reading some of these horror stories over the last month, I?m starting to feel more nervous than Don Knotts in ?The Ghost and Mr. Chicken?.
 
Wrongway,

Just to re-assure you, for every "horror story" you read, there are tens of thousands of hours of safe operation of our airplanes. "I went out and flew for an hour without anything bad happening" just doesn't get written up every day!

Yes, the safety threads are important, in my mind, for sharing stories of the unusual that we all need to read and heed. But they should not unduly worry anyone into thinking that this activity is as risky as cave diving, or crossing a Houston freeway on foot at rush hour.

Careful adherence to plans and good practices, multiple sets of educated eyes for inspections, and continued vigilance (thorough annuals) are the keys to reliable, safe machines. How safely we use the machines is a topic for an entirely new thread, of course! ;)

Paul
 
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