pierre smith

pierre smith

Well Known Member
...works well! In anticipation of my California trip, I was playing with the iPad and simply left a space between waypoints, put 4 of them in and ...Voila...a line linking all of them, plus the heading and distance between each.

BTW...do any of you guys know how to get the Sectional or Low altitude charts' index to show, so you can see which chart joins which other chart, without having to go dig up an old sectional?

Cool,
 
Last edited:
Hey Heikki

Any chance you could add some Canadian airports to the lists. I am trying to plan a Windsor, Wiarton, Manitoulin East, Killarney and back run on my ipad and many of the airports dont exist on skycharts? They show on the sectionals but no love entering them. Would be sweet to have them. Dont forget us up North. Thanks.

Great app for the $$. Keep up the great work.
 
Pierre,
Check with KentB here on the forums. He used his iPad to navigate the entire US. I assume he would be an expert on the subject.
 
Sorry, the lack of Canadian charts is since there are no charts I can legally use. More here:
http://forum.skycharts.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=236&p=786&hilit=canadian#p786

But supposedly NavCanada will start supplying digital geo-referenced charts at some point, lets just hope they have less restrictions that they have now.

RickWoodall said:
Any chance you could add some Canadian airports to the lists. I am trying to plan a Windsor, Wiarton, Manitoulin East, Killarney and back run on my ipad and many of the airports dont exist on skycharts? They show on the sectionals but no love entering them. Would be sweet to have them. Dont forget us up North. Thanks.

Great app for the $$. Keep up the great work.
Click to expand...
 
A few pointers.

Make sure that you have cached all the charts that you might need for you flight.
The edge / back of the chart is not there, so you need to figure out control freq. for MOA/restricted area before your flight. If you can use flight following they will be helping you, but you can't depend on them as they could drop you (VFR).

I don't know why, but when I was in NE, I was able to load approach plates, but the AFD wouldn't load for me. I don't know if the data was old or if something else was wrong. I would just get a blank page.

With the current version of SkyChartPro there is no indication of the expiration date.

I also have ForeFlight and used it while on the ground, but like the SCP interface for flying. It is very handy to watch the map and if you want to know more about an airport coming up, just tap the airport name.
I wish the there were more information then the AFD, which ForFlight has.

Putting in flight plans is easy as you have discovered.

Kent
 
FYI: If you get blank AFD's it means that the built in database&server are out of sync.
Most likely that's due to you not having updated to the latest charts, and then you go ahead and cache charts anyway (the name of the AFD PDFs change every couple of months).

Best way to check if you have the latest charts is to REBOOT the device, then you start the app (in connectivity of course). If it complains about expired charts, it should then ask if you want to update.

Although the expiration dates are not listed in the app (yet) you can see the valid dates on the TPP's (aka approach plates). The charts/database are updated every 28 dates - there is enough overlap between charts I consider them all invalid and you want to recache the data.

Or you can check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerona...tion#AIRAC_effective_dates_.2828-day_cycle.29

Again, if the app doesn't complain on startup you ARE using the latest charts.
(note: I say APP startup, on the iPhone 4 apps normally never quit, so that's why its important to reboot every now and then - this is the quickest way to killing all apps. You also free up memory so a reboot a day keeps apps from crashing).

If it complains, please let it update. This can be a lengthy process so be careful about tapping Yes if you're about to step in the plane.
 
Last edited:
Hi, Heikki

I think that the AFD or approach should be displayed with a warning about it being out of date. Let the user decide if it is OK to continue using this information.

Kent
 
Currently you have to check the date on bottom/side of the AFD/TPP to see if you have the latest (just like paper), but having the expiration date viewable is something people have asked for so that will definitely happen at some point.
Thanks for the feedback.

kentb said:
I think that the AFD or approach should be displayed with a warning about it being out of date. Let the user decide if it is OK to continue using this information.

Kent
Click to expand...
 
IPAD performance

As a follow on to the original topic - I am considering purchasing an IPAD, and of course being able to use it in the airplane would be a plus:)
For those of you that have used it in the airplane, how does it compare to a dedicated handhelp GPS (Garmin, etc)? How readable is it in direct sunlight and does the 10,000 ft limitation (per the IPAD specs) seem to have any impact?
Thanks,
Bill
 
I've had mine to about 14,500 with no evident ill-effects.

If the screen's in direct sunlight the readability is acceptable not not what you'd call great. The screen is polarized and since I wear polarized distant vision sunglasses, I've got to lift them to see anything.

With SkyCharts, the ability to zoom in enough is wonderful.

I get excellent GPS reception wherever I've taken it.

Mine has a black silicone case that gives it a good grip. Not so darn slippery. If I let it rest in direct sunlight it'll overheat and shut itself down. It takes 15 or 20 minutes to cool off enough to turn back on. I've learned to keep a Sectional paper chart handy as a cover (it also fits the windshield of my Cessna 180 and makes an effective sunshade when I'm refueling).

The overheating is probably the worst feature.

It would be nice, in SkyCharts, to have the data resizeable and to be able to select the data fields desired. Foreflight isn't as useful a chart because it doesn't resize to the extent that SkyCharts does, but its data size is easier to read in the cockpit. Between the two, I prefer SkyCharts and use that exclusively in the cockpit.

I had thought that I might remove my Garmin hand-held which is on a fixed mount, but I'm keeping it for the data it supplies. It gives a lot of easy-to-read data that meets my needs. Unfortunately neither of these apps do that.
 
Bill, I use (need) both.

I have the iPad with skyChart and a 496. I have weather and traffic on the 496 and the iPad is my chart replacement. It as the AFD and approach plates. When I leave the plane for the night, I take the iPad with me and use foreflight to check weather. skyChart is great for doing a quick check for ceilings while on the ground, but in the air you no longer get weather data, although maybe if I enabled and paid for G3 connection I could get it.

Readability is fair when the sun is shining the wrong way (I installed a glare film). As David mentioned over heating can be a problem. I have had it happen twice and removed it from my panel holder and put it in my lap. After 5 minutes of vent air hitting it, it started back up.
I also have flown to 14,500 ft and didn't not have a problem.

Kent
 
Kent, I have to agree with you..

...that the combination of the iPad and a 496 with wx, can't be beat. The 496 is incredibly user friendly and is loaded with all the info you need, and quickly accessible. Of course, the 430W provides great auto-pilot inputs and all the instrument approaches...an even better combo.

Best,
 
Thanks

Gentlemen,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions in such detail - very much appreciated. It is interesting that all three of your responses indicate that the Ipad is an enhancement to a dedicated GPS. Paints a much clearer picture of the Ipad's utilization.
Bill
 
Time to amend my report that my iPad hasn't lost the GPS signal in flight.

It sure did today! I was leaving Salida, CO, enroute to Longmont, CO, and was somewhere over the mountains due west (about 33 miles) of the Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, it decided that I was probably just east of Kansas City and it wasn't too sure about that. I was around 15,000' at the time.

It didn't matter whether I used SkyCharts Pro or ForeFlight - same frustrating result.

The old monochrome Garmin handheld, which was on, maintained a solid lock. The paper chart, open to the area, stayed open and handy. The course I'd drawn on it did not fade.

By the time I'd gotten closer to the west Denver area and was down to around 11,000 feet the iPad recovered.

On the previous leg, further west and at roughly the same altitudes, the iPad worked flawlessly.

And there you have it.
 
Unkgd said:
Gentlemen,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions in such detail - very much appreciated. It is interesting that all three of your responses indicate that the Ipad is an enhancement to a dedicated GPS. Paints a much clearer picture of the Ipad's utilization.
Bill
Click to expand...

There it is! And for only $19.99/year Heikki has one heck of a program going. Yes there are others that may be more spectacular but this is the entire U.S. sectional, afd and approach plate system in one. I took a 3000 mile trip with mine and everything worked awesome in addition to my 496. In my room at night I could plan my next day. Thank you Pierre for alerting me to this gem. And of course the IPad has just a few additional things going for it besides charts.

Oh yeah...the MOA thing. I never understood it to be an area you were required to talk in or even monitor. Should stand for Move On Along.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Pete..

One thing I did discover recentlly on a trip to the coast, is that you cannot get any instrument approach info if the low altitude charts are not cached as well. I had an ex navy A-6 pilot and his wife with me and I tapped on our arrival airport (Jekyll Island) and only the A/FD was available. Later, I discovered why the approach wasn't there...no IFR charts cached,

Best,
 
@Pete: Thanks! Now that fall is here I'll be able to spend more time in front of a computer again so there will be some updates down the road.

@Pierre: Correct. If you only cache VFR charts you only get the A/FD and airport diagrams.
If you however cache IFR charts you also get instrument approaches. Check Q5 in the FAQ:
http://www.skycharts.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=188

@David: How fast where you going (GS that is) ? I've heard reports that the built in GPS sometimes fails when going faster than 200knots (probably some software issue). However, external bluetooth GPS devices on jailbroken devices do not have this problem. You can also try rebooting the device as this sometimes restores GPS functionality.
 
Last edited:
glider said:
@David: How fast where you going (GS that is) ? I've heard reports that the built in GPS sometimes fails when going faster than 200knots (probably some software issue).
Click to expand...

At the time I was doing about 150 mph. On the previous leg I had groundspeeds above 190 mph with a solid lock on the GPS.

This is an iPad, not an iPhone.

The plane is a Cessna 180. Hardly ever get above 200. I placed the iPad on the glareshield with no change.

I hadn't thought to do a reboot. I did put it in sleep and resume it, and shut down the apps and restarted them, but of course that's not the same.
 
I can't emphasize enough to reboot your iOS device at least weekly.
(actually any time it does something unexpected).
Lack of memory for running apps is a constant headache for developers.
This will get even worse once iOS4.2 is released for the iPad since apps never really quit, they just get suspended.

Supposedly the iPad and the iPhone 4 is using this chip:
http://www.broadcom.com/products/GPS/GPS-Silicon-Solutions/BCM4750
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=514239

Its definitely a big step forward from the chip used in the iPhone 3GS but maybe it will be replaced with something even better in the next round of iOS devices ?
 
Curious as to why not just use Foreflight. It has EVERYTHING needed from flight planning to calling the the restaurants, hotels, etc at your destination. It even has fuel prices all built in. I think it's awesome and will pickup an ipad just to run Foreflight in the near future. Cheaper than a x96 Garmin too.
 
glider said:
I can't emphasize enough to reboot your iOS device at least weekly.
(actually any time it does something unexpected).
Lack of memory for running apps is a constant headache for developers.
This will get even worse once iOS4.2 is released for the iPad since apps never really quit, they just get suspended.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll sure remember that one.

Why not use ForeFlight? The ForeFlight image is relatively poor, the app - not the pilot - controls whether the chart should be a Sectional or a TAC chart, the weather functionality, while good, is not as quick and sure as SkyCharts Pro for broad-area checking (and it's duplicated in the Weatherdeck app anyway), and SkyCharts Pro has a MUCH easier connection to the airport data. Also ForeFlight is considerably more expensive.

I like the larger data font on ForeFlight's map screen.

I do subscribe to it in my main flying season and it makes a decent back-up, with complementary features.
 
glider said:
I can't emphasize enough to reboot your iOS device at least weekly.
(actually any time it does something unexpected).
Lack of memory for running apps is a constant headache for developers.
This will get even worse once iOS4.2 is released for the iPad since apps never really quit, they just get suspended.
Click to expand...

Having recently written an iPad app, I found that allocating and deallocating memory for objects in iOS positively archaic. For a C# developer like myself I felt like I stepped back 10 years. XCode is not a very good IDE in my opinion and the syntax of objective-C is also archaic.

Heikki, while we have your ear, is there any chance you might integrate SkyCharts with the Navworx PADS600? That would be an unbeatable combination!
 
@Manny: I respectfully disagree! ;)
(disclaimer, I'm the developer of SkyCharts)

@David: I'm working on a new version down the road which will look very different. Its some ways out though, the next version will have other improvements, but the GUI looks about the same.

@Bob: Agree, Objective-C is one of the worst languages I have ever worked with in several regards. I can't believe it got picked as the language of choice for iOS.
ADS/B is very interesting, I'm sure there will be plenty of options around soon. Since the airplane I mainly fly does not have any live weather I'm definitely interested in adding weather (without relying on 3G coverage).
 
Last edited:
glider

I don't know, but I can't go wrong with Foreflight. Everything needed to plan, fly, and post landing is at my finger tips. Please elaborate as to why skycharts is superior to Foreflight aside from price? Educate me as I haven't purchased Foreflight yet.

Thanks
 
Manny, it wasn't clear but I'm the developer of SkyCharts so of course I'm just _slightly_ biased.

Maybe you know someone who owns most of the apps availble who can demo all for you so you get familiar before deciding ?

SkyCharts is designed to be very easy to use in-flight and requires few gestures/taps to bring up relevant information. For instance just double tap on the map (anywhere) to bring up the AFD and approach plates for the closest airport.
 
GPS question

Glider,

I've been reading this string with interest, as I am planning on getting an IPAD. Let me ask if I've got this correct. I can install the skycharts app and get the GPS navigation features on the 3G / GPS model even if I don't have a 3G account? I would like to try out the skycharts app but if I have to also go for the monthly 3G account it gets more pricey.

Thanks
RIchard Fazio
 
Correct, no need for 3G data service to get a GPS fix. Just make sure to buy the 3G version, the wifi only does NOT have a GPS chip built in.
For all offline cached chart apps (like SkyCharts) just make sure to cache/download all charts you will be using when out of wifi/3G range.
If you do not cache, even if you do have 3G data service, it will most likely not be able to transfer chart data once airborne.

So the short answer: Always cache maps you intend to use, even if you happen to have 3G data service enabled.
Don't even think about the wifi only version of the iPad, get the 3G version.
Depending on your usage model, the 16GB is good enough for a couple of aviation apps, but once you start listening to music or movies on the device you should go for a larger model.

However: Even WITH the 3G model you will occasionally loose GPS. The built in GPS is simply not good enough.
It will work approx 99% of the time (for GA, the faster you go the less chance of it working) but if you require 100% then you can possibly go for an external bluetooth device and jailbreak your device (be careful, although jailbraking isn't illegal it still voids any warranty with Apple).

Or you can get a device like this:
http://bad-elf.com/products/gps/

The bad-elf GPS does not require jailbreaking, AND its supported by ALL navigation type software since it 'talks' to the iOS directly, not to the application.
(navigation apps 'talk' to the iOS to get GPS coordinates).

Clear as mud ? :)
 
Last edited:
Heikki, I'm having trouble with my iPad...

....in flight. We did a cross-country last week and when I tap on an airport symbol, the page opens with A/FD on the first line and all the approaches under that. When I tap on the top line, nothing happens for most airports. I have that sectional cached and it's current. I get a message that says something like "no internet connect'. How can I resolve this issue. I also don't get any instrument approaches to show.

Thanks,
 
Pierre,

It means the plates were not cached, so the app tried (unsuccessfully) to connect to the server to show it.
By default for VFR charts (sectionals,TAC&FLY) only the A/FD and airport diagram are cached, not ALL plates.

If you want all plates enable the 'cache IFR plates' in the settings.
Or just cache the IFR chart(s) for your area, IFR charts cache all plates by default.

Caching is discussed more in Q5 in the FAQ:
http://forum.skycharts.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=188
 
Happy New Year Heikki....a question...

...I'm flying to a private airport today that's not on the charts and doesn't have an identifier. I do have the lat/long coordinates and I programmed my 496 and 430W to get there.

Is there a way to input the lat/long info to the iPad using Skychartspro?

Best,
 
Thanks Heikki...

I did find that info but I was wondering why there are so many zeros on the top line. Are they necessary?

It worked well,

Thanks,
 
Great!

Yes, as long as you end with N & W it will be parsed correctly.
Example:
45-14-49.7N/122-46-12.2W
 
First impression

Happy New Year! I recently had the opportunity to see first hand the Ipad at work with the Foreflight software. It was very impressive with no problems switching between sectionals, low altitude,and high altitude charts, and all with moving map display. Operating at Fl320 at 435kts for a duration of 4hrs. The internal gps surprised me with it's ablility to receive the signal. I think it is defintely in my future to purchase one.
 
First Flight with IPad

Just got back from flying to lunch with my new Ipad, 3G version. We used Foreflight on the trip out and accessed the airport info and on the return trip I switched to SkyCharts Pro. Both worked flawlessly and are very fine programs, many thanks to the developers! Oh yeah, I have wifi only, no data plan for the 3G. By caching the charts for both programs it really worked great.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mrreddick947/Pictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCJaXiOyIrtWH6gE#5557695245665844738
 
Last edited:
AltonD said:
Get you one of these:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=66799

I have the WiFi only too. with this module, I now have active GPS position on the IPad and the little airplane shows your position on the chart. This connects via bluetooth. I am going to velcro it to the dash.
Click to expand...

Alton,

No need for that, the 3G that I have has a GPS, that's what my report was about, it worked flawlessly with the built-in GPS without paying for a data plan for the 3G.
 
mrreddick said:
Alton,

No need for that, the 3G that I have has a GPS, that's what my report was about, it worked flawlessly with the built-in GPS without paying for a data plan for the 3G.
Click to expand...

Yes, the built-in GPS does work great if you have the 3G version iPad. I usually get 10m accuracy with the built-in GPS and the iPad sitting on my lap or the seat next to me. With the bluetooth it becomes 3m accuracy with WAAS, but this is probably overkill for a simple moving map application. 10m is plenty accurate for most needs.

Of course if you don't have the 3G version (whether or not you have a data plan), you will need an external GPS of one flavor or another.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=66799
 
Dunno about 10k, but mine works well up through about 15k'. Also at lower altitudes.

3G version, no added device.

Dave
 
Most of the issues regarding using computers at altitude are from the hard drives and the platters spiniing.

Of course iPad doesn't worry about that... :(

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.