flyboykelly

Well Known Member
Ok, Im at the point that I need to decide weather I need to do the landing light kit in the leading edge of the wing or do the landing lights in the wing tips ( I have the newer style wing tips). What I would like to know is if anyone has had any trouble with the optics of the landing lights in the wing tips? Does the curved wing tip lense have any distortion problems? If anyone has any practical night experience with these two different lights some advice would be much appreciated. Thanks, Brian
 
I've always landed with NO lights, just the flashy things going, and had no problems, so having landing lights on the new plane will be like WOW, let there be light. I went with the in wing design on both sides.
 
Landing Lights

You know... all this hipe about HID etc... is BS IMHO. The regular Duckworks leading edge lights work just fine. A $7.00 bulb, keep a couple in the tool kit.
 
If you do a search on this topic you'll notice that there is "almost" a consensus that that short winged RV's do not offer large enough wingtips cutouts to angle a landing light inward sufficiently (or at least ideally). Likewise, Gus at Van's recommended Duckworks for the 7/8/9, commenting that it was really the -10, with it's larger wingtips, that can effectively use the wingtip lights.
 
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landing lights

Hi guys we put the landing lights in the leading edge as per vans. i set them up so when they form a single spot on the runway at night you are at the correct altitude to arrest decent and glide in to land. 40+ hours very high % of greasers no bumps easiest and most predictable aircraft i have ever landed (rv-8a).
cyril
 
A friend of mine has an RV-7 he's been flying for over 2 years. He put the landing lights in the wingtips and says he would not do it again. As I recall, the exact quote was, " I should've known that having the light out there at the wingtip ... where I don't need it ... was a bad idea. I need to see where I'm going, not where I don't might go."
 
I have the 2" wingtip lights from Creativair, and the truth is, the halogens in that location just don't cut it if you NEED a lot of light. I replaced them with the Duckworks HID kit, and they are now "acceptable". Louise's -6 has the regular Duckworks leading edge lights, and they are BRIGHT - a very good option if you are still deciding which way to go. The bottom line is that I found the HID's to be a good fix once I had gone with the small lights in the tips - not sure you really need them in the leading edge installation (although it's pretty cool to be lit up like a 777!).

Paul
 
In the wing

The way I see it you have better optics in the wing, and less to crowd your wingtips. I was considering wingtip tanks and realized that it would be very tight with all the lights and antennas antennae? in there.

Hans
 
I have the standard Duckworks leading edge lights with 100W bulbs (buy 'em at Walmart)... I've landed at unlit grass strips on moonless nights. I say save your $$ on the HID stuff and put $4 100W bulbs in, they'll work just fine.
 
then there are some us, who don't fly in the mountains at night. So I chose to go with the wingtip lights for dusk/dawn recognition lights and in case I want to taxi out for the early morning blast off to watch the sunrise.

I can always add or change them later
 
There no debate. I've built and flown both and both are marginally adequate! Do what's easiest and least expensive. You don't really need them to land anyway and in the end, how often are you going to land in the pitch black of night.
 
One morning over Gorman I was looking for Rosie to form up and head north.
What was memorable (to me) was how easy it was to spot him in bright sunlight with his landing light wig wag flashers on. At that time I was flying my six. When it came time to plan lights for my -8A, wig wags were a must.
I installed the RV-10 landing light kit in the tips of my -8A to be used for taxi and recognition (wig wag) and one Duckworks (100 watt) in the leading edge of the left wing for landing. Best of both worlds IMHO and cost effective.
 
Landing light optional

Without a landing light, I predict only once. ;)

TODR

I must disagree here. I have landed the F-15 and F-14 (I did flare when landing at other than the ship) and all the time without a landing light on very dark nights. To me descending into the black hole and then getting the halo bubble effect as you get really close to the runway due to the landing light reflecting off of the runway messed up my flares. With it off I get a better perspective of my flare by using the runway lights. Even today flying the B-767 I look down the runway for the flare, I don't even look at where the lights are pointed. I did not use the light on my C-150 when I owned one as well. I guess it is what you learn.
 
I agree about using the landing lights on landing. I never got to use it when I was training, darn thing was always blown out in the cessna I trained in. I learned how to atripulate(spelling, go ahead and bash me if it's wrong) between the runway lights. My wife tells me that I land better at night. Oh, and I do that a bunch, why, my wife likes to watch the sunset and fly over the city, cool lights she says. So I've done plenty of night, very dark, landings, with NO lights. Well the flashy things at least. With only lights, on the lowest setting, along the sides of the runway. I remember one flight with the Cessna that was really dark out, snow on the ground, with the landing light covered with snow as well, very faint, I had blinky lights for the approach on each side of the runway, but that was it. OH, and the cessna landing lights were out. I asked the instructor, you able to see ok, he gave a slow, ya. I said ok, we'll do this, than he said, make it a soft field landing. If some of you don't remember this landing, it's where you set up the deflection of the wings and use power to lower yourself onto the runway. I didn't know where the runway was, just the center. I just kept lowering the rpm and then finally, bump, a slight one and perfect. I landed, did the touch and go and went on my way. Was asked if I wanted to do it again, I said, naw, lets go back to our home field. Thankfully he said, ok.

I'm also planing on wigwag. For the same reasons mentioned, to be seen on landing, even in the daytime.
 
What about the Deer!?!

Around here you need the landing light to make sure you don't run into deer on runway, and if the runway doesn't have lights, to find the runway.

I suppose it depends on your own flying style, but I like to fly at night. Having great landing lights opens up your options for unlit runways. Emergencies can force your hand to an unlit runway. Having powerful landing lights in a night emergency could make a huge difference.

Don't forget that if you have a comm failure that you may not be able to turn the runway lights on. And the runway light themselves fail at times.

It is true, that on a lit runway, without wildlife, landing lights are superfluous. Taxi lights I think you always need.


Hans
 
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Around here you need the landing light to make sure you don't run into deer on runway,...
This is the thing that worries me. I agree that the lights are pretty superfluous for flaring or anything like that.

Apparently you have found your lights adequate to spot deer in time. I am doubtful about mine, but haven't had to find out yet.
 
It's not just deer, although I was going to make that same point until somebody beat me to it. (Yes, landing/taxi lights have been a factor in helping me avoid a collision with an animal at night).

However, beyond worrying about animals, how in the world do you really know that the runway or taxiway is clear ahead of you, especially on airports that have less than adequate or no lighting? I've had to manuever around paint buckets that have blown onto the runway, hoses that have been left on the taxiways, and other debris, in addition to animals. Worse yet, what happens when some kid who is not being supervised by a responsible parent runs out in front of you as you approach your hangar at night? Landing or taxiing blind is asking for trouble eventually.

I agree that the approach and flare can be done just fine without lights. It's what happens after that, however, that matters.
 
Options

Having lights gives you options:

"If you have to do an emergency landing at night, pick your best glide speed as usual. When you get close enough to the ground, turn on your landing light. If you like what you see, go ahead and land. If you don't like what you see, turn off the light."

In Canada, we are required to have a landing light when carrying a passenger at night. OK to land without a light when solo. Go figure.
 
It's interesting to me how such a simple topic as aircraft lighting can create such a dilemma... what to do? Which system is "best"?

My direction for lighting was was driven not just by the landing lights, but the nav and strobe lights as well. I had two issues; I didn't want a nav/strobe light in the tail and didn't want to cut big holes in the wing skins for the Duckworks landing lights. Call me chicken, but I was just afraid of mucking up the holes... I think that now I'd be okay with chopping these holes, but at the time it kinda scared me. The itty bitty Creativair lights in the new style wing tips just didn't look adequate. So, what to do?

I went with the RMD Aircraft system; ended up using the old school RV-4 wing tips with a set of landing lights from RMD added in, plus the all-in-one Whelen A600 nav/strobes on the tips. I really like the RMD lights; they look very well made, were fairly easy to install and since they use full size 50w bulbs, they throw lots of light for takeoff and landing. They're not great for taxiing, can't get them aimed down far enough... but since they throw so much light out ahead there is enough peripheral light to taxi with. I'm very happy with 'em!

Also, I just noticed a new RV product added to their lineup. Initially they just made landing light assemblies to install into old style wing tips; now I see that they're producing complete wing tips with lights already installed. They look similar to the standard Vans unit, but with an upsweep to the tip. Looks cool!
Check 'em out; http://www.rmdaircraft.com/other.htm
 
Hi guys we put the landing lights in the leading edge as per vans. i set them up so when they form a single spot on the runway at night you are at the correct altitude to arrest decent and glide in to land.
cyril


You must have seen "The Dam Busters".
 
I agree that the approach and flare can be done just fine without lights. It's what happens after that, however, that matters.
Phwepht! Coffee almost came out the nose with that one. I suppose that's a lot like saying that trying to skydive without a parachute is fine, it's just the landing that is tricky. ;)

Sorry that my attempt at humor got taken out of context. I was quoting the comment about "pitch black" conditions, which, to me, means no lights at all - runway, landing, celestial ... nuthin. I will concede that if the runway is well lit you can land the airplane without landing lights. But without any lights at all? Yikes. I sure wouldn't want to try it in a RV.

The points about seeing FOD, critters (which can quickly become FOD) and other airplanes (ditto) are well taken. See and avoid.

TODR
 
Tip Tanks and Tip Lights

I have my lights in the tips and the wiring runs through a conduit in the tanks. For short races of 300 miles or less I made 3" custom tips and when I install them the tip tanks and stock tips come off. Knife splices inboard and outboard of the tanks facilitate the conversion. All of my lights (NAV/Strobe/Landing/taxi) are imbedded in the cavity behind the lens to minimize drag. They perform adequately and meet FAA requirements. I had the choice of leading edge lights or these and I chose this configuration. After 4 years of flying the plane I find that there is a rise in the edge of the lens between mounting screw locations that is a little disappointing but not too bad. I see many RVs with the NAV/Strobes sticking out in the breeze and that is something I simply could not live with so I would have to have some form of tip conformance lens even if I put the Landing/Taxi lights in the leading edge so I guess the current configuration is best for me. They do not "light up my world" at night the way my centerline Landing/Taxi light did on my Archer II that I commuted to work in for 15 of the 22 years I owned it but it is not a big degradation. Landing and taxi view ahead is illuminated adequately.

Bob Axsom
 
Duckworks and Creativair

Ok, I did both. Duckworks as landing lights in the leading edge and the Creativair in the tip for taxi lights. Neither one is HID. The only downside I see is a few more amps for short while. Wiring these was the easiest wiring in the whole plane. Probably will replace both sets of bulbs with some LED drop-ins when they become available. I plan to use both landing and taxi lights in the pattern and look like a mini-Pilatus PC-21 :D

Albert Thomas
N880AT
RV-8A QB
(going on 80+ hours of wiring)
 
For RV-12 Builders / Rotax users: Beware the landing light draw! The alternator on the 912 series does not put out much current at low engine RPM. I have the output curve somewhere, but it has escaped me for the moment. However, I remember that it's pretty steep.

Anyway, in the CT, we use a single 100W MR16 type landing light. It's fairly good and visible from the air, but below about 3000 RPM, the alternator doesn't have enough output to keep up with the avionics and the landing light, and your voltage will start dropping quickly. Remember that the Rotax needs a smaller battery, and that 100W light will do it in quickly.

So, say you put the landing light on before you do a 45 deg entry to downwind and a normal pattern ... your voltage will be down to 12 volts as you're rolling out after touchdown. If you're doing this at night or right at civil twilight, you have the unpleasant choice between running the engine at 3000 RPM for taxi (hope you have plenty of brake pad!) or turning the light off (hope you don't need it for taxi!). Otherwise, stuff will stop working and you won't be able to start the engine next time. How do I know? .....

We've tried replacing the light with 50W bulbs - that helps, but only somewhat. If you're planning on flying the -12 at night (unlikely, given its orientation towards the SP market, but possible with a PP), you might want to think about your landing lights early. LED taxi lights might be helpful.

TODR
 
planelights

Lumens per watt, you can't beat HID. LED's are getting very close, but not there yet. A 35w HID will have 3200 lumens, same as a 150w MR16. No RFI noise, the bulbs go for 3000 hours. Just because bulbs are cheap, how much is reliability and visibility worth? Our kits aren't free but they are a lot less than other options on the market.

We have worked very hard to get an affordable aircraft quality HID kit to the market. Once you have the light, it is very easy to see what you were missing. Run you lights all the time, no worries about drawing down your battery. You will look like an MD80 on short final.

Steve
www.planelights.com

ps. Still waiting if anybody can get ahold of Doug we would love to sponsor VAF.