Ironflight

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
For many of us, one of the key reasons we chose to build and/or fly RV?s because of their wonderful handling characteristics. Light, nimble, maneuverable - perfect little fighter planes, a pilot?s airplane! When I get home in the evening, I can?t WAIT to go get in the plane and just fly it around the neighborhood a little - free as a bird!

But then, just as many of us go and put in autopilots - single axis, multi-axis, vertical speed hold with altitude capture, and even the ability to fly coupled approaches to minimums. We take these wonderful ?pilot?s machines? and then let another machine fly them for us! Lots of folks that haven?t installed an autopilot think we?re nuts.

This dilemma (why put an autopilot in a great-handling machine?) comes up in random posts now and again, so I thought maybe a thread devoted to the discussion might be useful. Pros and Cons for those trying to decide as they build - something for the archives (or the ?Never ending debates section...).

I have a nice autopilot that will hold altitude, hold a heading, or track the Guidance from my EFIS, NAV, or GPS (actually, from any of my three, sometimes four GPS?s?), and I think that for the way I use the airplane, the system is pretty much essential. I can go a week or two of local acrobatics, beat up the neighborhood flying, and never touch the A/P buttons, but when I am going someplace, I just have no real interest in being a meat-servo to keep the airplane wings level and on altitude. The Tru-trak can fly steady and on course much more efficiently than I can, saving gas and allowing me to do higher-order things, like looking at weather, and keeping an eye out for traffic. The nice thing about autopilots is that if you install them, you have them when you need them - and they come with an ?off? switch so that you can hand fly to your heart?s content?.

For IFR, I feel they are a huge safety enhancement - I?ve flown a lot of single-pilot, single engine IFR without them, and have no desire to go back to that mode. Possible - of course! Desirable? Not when I have the choice. If I?m stranded somewhere with an inoperative A/P, then sure - we can always dust off those skills.

Why put an autopilot in an RV? If you fly lots of cross-country, you already know the answer to the question in my opinion?. Just don?t forget that you can turn it off, and never know it?s there!

Paul
 
good points... while I dont have a flying RV, I DO fly a plane with an autopilot and use it alot. I find it most beneficial when holding heading or altitudes when flying approaches.... Kinda like an extra set of hands to help control the numerous aspects of flying!
 
Safety for me

I'm not flying yet but I chose to install a single axis Trio for safety's sake. To date, the fastest airplane that I've flown is a 172 (a real speed demon eh?). The Aeronca Sedan that I sold two years ago and flew for 6 years actually made the 172 seem speedy. So, my thought was in an RV, things can happen a lot faster than I'm used to. Clouds can come up quite quickly.

I saw the Trio years ago in Arlington and I really liked the "panic button" feature (this is the automatic 180 degree teardrop maneuver). Whenever possible, if I can add a bit more safety to the build, I add it, within reason. A single axis Trio seemed to fit the bill for me. Plus, as a bonus, it can also make long cross countries (which I plan to do a lot of) more enjoyable for me. Alright, and having an autopilot is a very cool toy to have!!! :cool:
 
I use the autopilot on 99% of all "going somewhere" portion of flights. I really like being freed up to keeping the mental picture of the weather clear and up to date. Or being able to better manage the engine. Or, just to simply look down at the ground without interruption for a period. I also like to use it when "threading" the needle of airspaces that can get narrow.

I really did not do any meaningful cross country prior to having the RV, given the costs and complexities of trying to rent planes. It would have been easy to think I didn't need one at that point. However, I am glad I put it on, I'd give up a lot of other stuff prior to the autopilot.
 
Paul has it right...

... it's better to have one than not. I've never flown with a functioning autopilot, but I do look forward to it, mostly on cross country flights. I enjoy flying the airplane and will continue to on fun flights around town. But on cross country flights, I look forward to spending more time looking outside the cockpit for traffic and enjoying the scenery, and staying ahead of the airplane, while monitoring George's progress.

Seems like a great enhancement to flying.:rolleyes:
 
Best of both worlds.

I have an ADI Pilot II, and find it very useful for XC flights, as Alex describes. My wife's stomach is 'motion challenged', and the A/P helps keep things nice and smooth. It's earned it's keep on that alone, for me anyway.
I concur that the A/P is a huge safety factor for single pilot IFR in an RV. Heaven forbid if you're hand flying and plans change and you have to fold/unfold a map or dig out another approach plate - can you say ' unusual attitudes' :eek:
But on a nice day, unusual attitude means for some reason you don't want to go out and crank it around a bit...
 
I plan to use one for the IFR portions of my flights, as a load shedding tool. I've always enjoyed hand-flying the aircraft (even 172's) so it will be simply a tool that I'll use for IFR. I don't plan on putting one in the RV that will be Day VFR only (The rv-4)
 
For me it's all about CRM - cockpit resource management. Yeah some folks call it crew resource management, but since I do most of my cross-country work solo I'm the only crew member to manage! An autopilot simply becomes a cockpit resource which can be used to make difficult situations more manageable, and as Paul described, allows the human crew to focus on higher-order activities which cannot effectively be assigned to a machine to complete.

My aircraft isn't an RV (yet), but is at least as maneouverable and far less stable than an RV. It demands to be flown with precision ALL the tiime. Even when flying VFR an autopilot would be a welcome electronic "crewmember". At the moment I do not have an autopilot installed, but you can bet your biffy that an autpilot servo or two are in the budget for next year. Having a Dynon EFIS in my aircraft has made the addition of their autopilot a complete no-brainer decision.
 
Give me simple and light any time!

When I built my day/night VFR -9 my goals was simple. Keep the plane simple, no fancy stuff like an auto pilot.

Over Easter weekend of this year we took the -9 from North Carolina up to northern Michigan, hand flying it there (6 hrs) and back (5 hrs). It was an enjoyable trip but I was tired when we reached our destination.

Fast forward to the trip to OSH. A detour to Detroit to pick up a friend and then on to OSH (6.9 hrs) and then home (6.5 hrs). With the AP installed and doing the flying, I was very relaxed when I reached my destination.

Not just that, it allowed me to spend more time scanning for airplanes, checking my track to make sure I was where I was supposed to be, eat lunch, etc.

The 5 lbs of extra weight the Dynon AP added to my aircraft where well worth the time and effort it took to install them.
 
A RV with an autopilot is like a 'sports' car with automatic.:D

My typical flights are short and just for the fun of it so an AP was not high on my list of needs. I also wanted to keep weight, cost and complexity down.

A RV-8 driver at my airport bet me that I would install one after my cross continent flight in June. I wish I had put money on that bet :)

I can certainly see their usefulness but they are not for me at this time and in this airplane. Blue skies.
 
I use the AP almost exclusively when transiting the Class B. It's hard to bust headings or altitudes with Uncle Otto flying, provided you've set them properly.

TODR
 
There is no down side to having an autopilot except money. You can use it as much or as little as you want - and most people I know would agree that it actually ENHANCES your enjoyment of your plane.

If nothing else, you can turn it on while someone else is flying formation off your lead and then turn around and get a good picture of your "wingman."

As for the light controls - the servos add almost no "drag" and after a bit you won't notice what little there is.
 
Paul, your post was worth reading if only to read the phrase 'meat servo' for the first time. :)

BTW, I agree with your post completely....I use the AP for trips and fly local in 'meat servo' mode. The four hours a couple of weeks back going to Corpus Christi to get the Mrs. was 99.5% on AP.

I'll never say 'autopilot OFF' again.....I going with 'Engage Meat Servo'. :D

b,
d
 
N941WR said:
The 5 lbs of extra weight the Dynon AP added to my aircraft where well worth the time and effort it took to install them.

allbee said:
The Dynon AP isn't available yet.
Alschief said:
Perhaps it is a Dynon Beta Test unit.
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Yep, it is a beta unit in my plane.



All I can say at this time is it is up to Dynon's typical high standards.

Regarding the sport plane / sports car comparison. I also have a sports car and it is a lot of fun to take on trips to the mountains but after about the 3rd hour of droning along the freeway on the way there w/o cruise control, I really start to miss my truck and all the nice "luxury" options it has. Same goes for flying. For local flights, the meat servos are used. :D Long trips see the AP used.

It was really cool to use the AP on the way home from OSH. The cooler was in the right seat and when I got hungry I didn't have to worry about the plane wondering off in either heading or altitude while I ate.
 
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the_other_dougreeves said:
I use the AP almost exclusively when transiting the Class B. It's hard to bust headings or altitudes with Uncle Otto flying, provided you've set them properly.
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And that's a fact! :D

20+ miles of Class B at perfect altitude, while you scan for other planes, flip-flop the radio, etc.

L.Adamson
 
McFly said:
A RV with an autopilot is like a 'sports' car with automatic.:D
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Eh? How do you figure that? With an automatic, the tranny is always deciding when to shift and will shift in the middle of corners, downshift when you just want a little more throttle - very unpredictable. The AP has to be turned on and engaged and it (hopefully) does exactly and only what you tell it to do. Flights can be without the AP, but drives cannot be made without the automatic.

Also, shifting can be done without looking (no need for the tach) and really without thinking. Flying an assigned heading nowhere not as easy as shifting, even heel-and-toeing.

A better comparison to an automatic tranny would be some sort of automatic prop pitch control that changed RPM when you changed the throttle, angle of attack, mixture, etc.

TODR, lifetime manual tranny shifter

PS - I won't dignify the "manunatic" transmissions that many makers sell. They shift like a manual .... slowly ... without blipping the throttle ... they might look cool on a spec sheet, but they work poorly. The Audi / VW "DSG" dual-clutch tranny and Lexus IS-F are the lone exceptions.
 
It is needed for IFR

I flew my Archer IFR for 18 of the 22 years I owned it and I almost never used the Century 21 autopilot though it worked well so I did not install an autopilot in our RV-6A. I fly single pilot operations only. For the first 1.5 or 2 years I flew the RV-6A IFR with not autopilot and it was more than a handful. If the weather was benign and I got nice vectors for shallow intercepts and no unexpected approach clearances and no tight amendments to my clearance it was was still demanding of full attention all the time just to fly the plane - exactly the way we like it VFR. After a paticularly tough IMC flight over the mountains into North Carolina I said I have to get an autopilot. I did and the change was wonderful. Even VFR cross country I use it every time now. I am a lessor pilot now because of it but I can live with that.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
I Even VFR cross country I use it every time now. I am a lessor pilot now because of it but I can live with that.
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Gives you more time to scan for other aircraft, birds, and emergency landing spots. You are now a "safer" pilot! :D

L.Adamson
 
Atlanta GA to Colorado Springs. Eight hours in one day. Autopilot (wing leveler) made it possible. Now I need an altitude hold.
 
L.Adamson said:
Gives you more time to scan for other aircraft, birds, and emergency landing spots. You are now a "safer" pilot! :D

L.Adamson
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I will choose the pilot with good judgment and average stick and rudder skills over the brilliant "ace of the base" with poor judgement any day.....;)
 
I've given quite a bit of thought towards this and I have ultimately decided I am going to skip it...my reasons being;

Weight..trying to stay light in all aspects...although my one concession to weight being a heavy CS prop for speed and climb.

Simplicity...one less thing to fail and repair down the road.

Don't ever use it..I only fly rentals right now that are all AP equipped and I find myself not using it or even wishing for it...I don't fly straight and level..even on longer flights..I'm constantly going down low to explore things I wanna get a closer look at..rivers...canyons..etc..if I wanted a straight and level cross country machine as the primary role..I'd buy a mooney...and I'd have an AP.

I am only looking for a day VFR airplane I can yank and bank and do some trips with on nice days..if this was an IFR bird..no questions..it'd have an AP.

You guys are using the same arguments for an autopilot as junkies do for their "fix"..once you try it..you can't live without it :) ...so right now I'll stick to the cheaper "don't know what I'm misssing" crowd.
 
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N941WR said:
but after about the 3rd hour of droning along the freeway on the way there w/o cruise control, I really start to miss my truck and all the nice "luxury" options it has. .
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Last I checked you still have to steer your truck continuously :) Airplanes already have cruise control in the form of throttle friction and trim :)
 
Auto pilot on!

For over seven years, I flew the T-38A Talon all over the USA without an autopilot. My opinion was: I love to fly, and I don't need no stinking autopilot! My attitude about autoflight was quickly reversed on my first four hour flight. After all, the T-38 would only stay airborne for a max of 1+55.

The first airplane I flew with an autopilot was the Boeing 727. Then came the overkill of the Autopilot Flight Management system in the Boeing 777. The autopilot went from a good baby sitter in the 727 to the HAL 5000 (I don't think so Dave) in the 777. Still, even the 777 has a meat servo switch, which by the way, I used much more that my first officer was happy with.

Thanks to the FAA, I built the Doll around the autopilot....That's another story!

On my recent nonstop flight from Oshkosh WI to Northwest Regional TX the Tru Track ADI Pilot II was engaged from just south of Wittman field until just north of 52F. The flying time was 4+48. I honestly was not that tired, and I attribute that to using the autoflight feature of the ADI Pilot II. I was busy enough managing the engine for max endurance fuel flow and other normal pilot duties. I'm absolutely sure that a nearly five hour nonstop trip in an RV would be very difficult without an autopilot.
 
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Arive relaxed

Wow, very interesting thread. My only cross continent flight was in a Super Cub, and I?ve got to say I enjoy the scenery more than I enjoy holding altitude. I always prefer a window seat on airline flights. At this point I?m planning a full up auto pilot for my -7, as one of the ?selling? features go convince my wife this all was a good idea was the ability to travel from Northern California to Northern Michigan (to see her family) in one long day. Which, is about what it takes on an airliner, when you take everything into consideration. On longer cross countries with out an auto pilot I feel like I?ve been dragged though a knot hole, by the time we get where we?re going, so I?m looking forward to letting ?George? do some of the flying while I?m able to enjoy the trip, and spend time doing all that other pilot stuff.
 
wickedsprint said:
I've given quite a bit of thought towards this and I have ultimately decided I am going to skip it...
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I went thru the same thought process and decided the same thing for slightly different reasons. After flying several long cross-countrys, including relocating the -8 from Houston (LVJ) to Sandpoint, Idaho (SZT), I wish I had an A/P. This last 10.5 hour marathon with sometimes marginal weather was exhausting and could have turned out poorly if landing conditions had been different at my destination.

I was single when I built the -8 and thought I would rather hand-fly. After the first long cross-country, I re-evaluated and wanted the A/P. Unfortunately my new wife didn't think it was that important and "we didn't have the money."

As mentioned in prior posts, RVs are very sensitive and altitude/heading must be monitored continuously. This takes it's toll during long flights. I believe the A/P is a real safety item and should be included on any RV intended for longer (2+ hours) cross-countrys.

Karl
 
My take is the first thing you should save money for is an autopilot! It's almost funny how similar my path was to others in this thread like Danny, etc..

When we built our first RV6 there was no AP's to speak of, and coming out of things like Citabrias we thought - "Jeez, this thing is so easy to fly compared everything else that we don't need a dumb autopilot, plus we ejoy flying anyway".

Well after several years and hundreds of hours on the plane, Jim Younkin finally told me we HAD to put on in our plane or our dealership would be cancelled. Couple that with the fact that one afternoon I was flying around sightseeing on a summer day, clamped the stick between my legs to take a sip of Dr.Pepper, and when I let go of the stick the RV6 almost rolled upside down....my Dr.Pepper bottle had sat on the aileron trim and ran it to the stop while I had it clamped between my legs! It took me a few seconds to figure out what the heck was going on - then I realized that my dumb soda bottle had run the trim all the way over.

So, I then decided to install a wing leveler. It took all of one flight to realize that it was the single best investment I can say I've made on the plane!

We then added an altitude hold and it was even better. Now, I can grab my water or soda bottle and take a drink without the plane going all over the place, it makes flying in winds over long distances much easier, and overall flights much better.

Anyway, I can say hands down that I strongly encourage people to install one, VFR or IFR - either way you'll be happy with it.

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
I totally forgot one of the other reasons we have Uncle Otto - for VFR pilots, an AP can really save your bacon with inadvertent flight into IMC. Engage the AP and command a 180 deg turn.

TODR
 
Auto pilot as a "Speed Mod"

Something I haven?t seen posted on this thread is the fact that for most of us, the best point to point speed mod is a good auto pilot, tracking a ?direct to? GPS course.
 
Gives you more time to scan for other aircraft, birds, and emergency landing spots. You are now a "safer" pilot!
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I respectfully disagree and believe it to be just the opposite. Do you have to look at your hand on the stick when driving in meat server mode? Of course not. My experience with other pilots that use AP (admittedly very limited) is they are more heads down because they like to play with the toys on the panel rather than fly the airplane.

I am not anti AP and certainly understand there utility and how they can enhance saftey in many situations, but they can also promote complacency.

Boy, I know I'm gonna get tosted for this one.
 
Well maybe not toasted but ...

You are totally wrong about the mindset of people flying with autopilots. The mission is the same but it is much more precise and under control. I fly a lot in cross country air races and at 500 ft AGL you are not looking for things to play with in the cockpit. I fly with a long history of aviation interest, not gadget interest. In a cross country air race like the AirVenture Cup or others sanctioned by the Sport Air Racing League where airplanes are trimmed and modified to gain every fraction of a knot that the owner can think of hand flying a varying line (heading and altitude) will lose a close race. That is just the competitive part. Well anyway I respect your right to your view but I do not agree with it as applied to a traveling RV aircraft. Just cruising around for fun that's fine.

Bob Axsom
 
McFly said:
I respectfully disagree and believe it to be just the opposite. Do you have to look at your hand on the stick when driving in meat server mode? Of course not. My experience with other pilots that use AP (admittedly very limited) is they are more heads down because they like to play with the toys on the panel rather than fly the airplane.

I am not anti AP and certainly understand there utility and how they can enhance saftey in many situations, but they can also promote complacency.

Boy, I know I'm gonna get tosted for this one.
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You're not going to get toasted! We all have our opinions and are all entitled to them...

In some instances you of course are right (watch a new Cirrus owner who's never been behind the big glass), but go install an AP in your plane and you'll be a convert - I almost can promise you that! Believe me, I was in your position for years and was adament that I didn't need no stinkin autopilot.

But, now I spend a LOT more time oogling outside the cockpit than ever before. No more watching the altimeter for devations, no more constantly watching the pink line on the GPS figuring out if my wind correction is correct, etc... Now, I just sit back, look outside and occasionally glance down to see if my altitude and heading are still perfect - as is normal with the Autopilot.

I'm not a superman of a pilot to begin with, so I'll take all the help I can in keeping altitude and heading! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
No Toast!

I am not going to toast anyone for expressing their opinion, and I hope no one else does, at least not on this topic! I started the thread to let people air their own views and choices on installing autopilots, so that those still working through the decision process have some views, experience, and opinions on which to help base their decisions.

If all I was doing was building a fun flyer that isn't going more than a couple hundred miles from home, and wasn't going to be operated near complex airspace, I would easily leave out the autopilot. I doubt we'll put one in the -3 we're talking about building - that is going to just be for fun!

I do think that in my case, I stay more "eyeballs out of the cockpit" when the A/P is engaged, because I am not constantly looking down at the instruments to stay on course and altitude - especially when I am flying under Class B airspace, and the traffic is heavy. It is really easy to climb or descend a couple hundred feet in an RV and bust some airspace!

Paul
 
For me, building a 10, the AP was a "no brainer".

The 10 is meant for cross cntry, not acro.

Now, if I had a serious "play around" bird also, then I would give the AP a long hard think. (Something on the lines of a Pitts:D) Something for local, short fun flights.

For an 8, which is a fine Xcntry or acro ship, pretty sure I would put in the AP, and if it was my only plane, defiantly yes to the AP.
 
SteinAir said:
But, now I spend a LOT more time oogling outside the cockpit than ever before. No more watching the altimeter for devations, no more constantly watching the pink line on the GPS figuring out if my wind correction is correct, etc... Now, I just sit back, look outside and occasionally glance down to see if my altitude and heading are still perfect - as is normal with the Autopilot.
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Well said and I totaly agree with that. Getting the meat head out of the GPS and up in the outside picture is a big plus with an AP.

There are times that I have to turn the thing off- such as contionous light chop with the True Track AP tracking a heading/GPS. It likes to fight the chop with it's sensative tracking/constant correction mode. But in smooth air with 2 hours to go- It is way worth the 5 lbs and $.

In OSH this year it was our mission to look at Century and S-tec for the 182 to replace the old Cessna Auto pilot and also look at the latest and greatest for the 6. The cost differences and capabilities are mind blowing- So to the point to thinking about the possabilities of a 337 field approval for the TruTrack in a spam can. For our little walk around research the answare was no- No TSO so no way for a 337 for a FSDO to say yes, when there are allready "approved" systems in place.
 
auto pilots

Ironflight said:
I will choose the pilot with good judgment and average stick and rudder skills over the brilliant "ace of the base" with poor judgement any day.....;)
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Auto pilots are a great tool for IFR flying but I have had co-pilots get so caught up in button pushing and automation they were no longer in control of the aircraft. I'll take good stick and rudder guy with the sense to turn off the autopilot when hand flying is a better choice. I have found the good sticks usually have good judgement too(personal observation) and the A/P dependent guys are inferior pilots.

I did not install an A/P in my -4 because I like to do the flying even if its for hours of cross country... its a chance to get back to the basic elements of flying.... heading, altitude, airspeed....I don't need an autopilot to hold them.
 
One aspect of this discussion

might be age. When I was younger I loved to do everything myself because it was a challenge and it pleased me to prove myself.

Nowadays, I want to keep my skills sharp but I don't always want to just work for work's sake. So when flying feels like work or business-like I'll at least turn on the altitude hold and often the full auto-pilot. Yes, I have the whole thing.

I love to hand-fly but when flying from Salt Lake to Goodland,KS to Kansas City at 17,500msl I like the autopilot. It gets mushy up there. Where's the fun in that for hours on end? The fun then is enjoying the view at those times.

When in busy airspace following vectors I like to keep the controller's job as stress reduced as possible. I know he/she is having to watch everyone so I let the autopilot keep it as steady as possible for him/her and let all the others out there increase the controller's stress while I'm watching for traffic.

Then, get me in class E, down low, and give me the stick.

I don't need the autopilot either to have fun or hold course.

Oh, yeah, the autopilot lets me talk to my passenger (wife) a little easier also while keeping in control.:)
 
Short wings plus IMC really require and autopilot for a number of reasons.

1.) The RV's handle so well as we know and love, but in IMC stability and predictability are important to me, especially flying here in the Northwest where I am almost always in IMC. An autopilot which can maintain altitude and heading dramatically reduces pilot fatique and gives you time to double and triple check your location, and next steps. You can fly IMC without it, but its a lot of work, practice and effort to stay sharp, and pilot fatique catches up on you fast. In my view, pilot fatique is a very dangerous thing. I stay current on hand flying, but I don't want to have to do it all the time.

2.) Partial Panel: I have a simple six pack in my plane with a GNS430W. My partial panel solution is 'AUTOPILOT ON, TURN TOWARDS VFR'. My trutrak has an internal gyro that is my back-up should I loose my vacuum pump. Sure I have a turn co-ordinator as one should have for partial panel, but my partial panel flying was not the best in a plane with long wings using this, and my trutrak is a lot more reliable in this regard. This increases my safety factor significantly in my view should I loose my gyro's.

3.) General comfort when flying IFR: For me flying IFR is so much fun because of the system you interact with around you. The fun is managing your aircraft within that system and communicating with center, approach etc. professionally. Having to hand fly an RV on top of that is a lot of work and reduces my ability to be tight and professional in my IFR flying. It also dramatically reduces my ability to review, plan and manage my engine and systems as well as weather and airport information.

I love my autopilot, I think GPSS is fantastic and I love the way it can fly a coupled GPS LPV approach down to miniumums with amazing precision regardless of wind conditions. Its cool.
 
It's a tool, Use it

As with many of the widgets we put in the plane, the AP is a tool. Tools make the task safer. An autopilot make sense for a lot of reasons. Safety- Obvious. Efficiency- Flying exact altitudes on an exact course, means less milage, less fuel, less time etc.. Eyes are out of the cockpit more.

The weight argument, isn't. The weight of the TT Digiflight II VSGV is 6 pounds with servos. Not a huge amount in the scheme of things. Hit the treadmill if this bothers you.

I have had some major cross country work. My longest day was Columbia SC to Chandler AZ. 9.5 hours in the seat, 11 hours station to station. Probably 9 hours of that was on AP. The physical and mental load is removed and I arrived quite rested. (As I do on most trips)

One of my neighbors is building a 7. He is absolutely obsessed with building the lightest 7 in the World. He wants the shortest takeoff distance, fastest climb and fastest cruise RV7. His primary flight profile will be cross country. He is putting in minimal equipment and refuses to put in an AP because of the weight. (Several of the local RV guys are planning an intervention)

I challenged him in a point to point race when he finishes. I firmly believe the time difference will be minimal because, for the above listed reasons, I'll fly with the accuracy of the auto pilot while he has to hand fly.

Regarding the "I want to fly it," mentality, I hand fly my RV quite often but never on a CC. My other aircraft is a medical helicopter that I hand fly, at night with Night Vision Goggles, in the mountains at just over 2000agl with possibly one of your relatives on board. That pretty much cures the hand flying my RV idea. Nuff said. BTW, the guy mentioned above also flies medical helicopters for the same company.:eek:
 
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Christopher Murphy said:
I did not install an A/P in my -4 because I like to do the flying even if its for hours of cross country... its a chance to get back to the basic elements of flying.... heading, altitude, airspeed....I don't need an autopilot to hold them.
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No thanks.....

We have some of the best mountain and desert scenery in the world. I'd rather look at it, as well as for other aircraft, while cross checking on a sectional..................than concentrating on the "basic elements" of flight, and missing it all....

It's kind of like a motorcycle. The guy who races down every country road with amazing skills in the high speed turns...............never sees the beauty of nature that's all around. I know, because I've done it both ways.

L.Adamson
 
We've flown our RV-6, 13,500 cross-country nautical miles from this time last summer to present. All of it was done without an autopilot, and some of the legs were quite long. Once trimmed, I've found the RV to be almost as easy to fly cross-country as the other planes I've flown (the Aeronca Chief was more tiring, guess why). I usually get to my destination with enough energy to finish my day in good style, but then again, I'm a young resilient whipper-snapper of 50. Even without an AP the RV is still a whole lot less fatiguing than driving a car.

All that being said, I'd still like to have an AP. I can see the utility, safety, and fatigue reducing benefits it would provide, but I can't justify the cost right now because I'm spending most of my money on avgas! I bought a Trutrak ADI from Stein last year so I would have an upgrade path to the Pilot II autopilot, but right now I just can't bring myself to pull the $2800 out of savings to buy it.

Maybe one of these days, but not right now.
 
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I have flown about 5,000 non-commercial hours in my single engine planes. A lot of that was IFR. I consider my autopilot in my 7A essential for safe IFR.

When a controller issues a new full route revised clearance, gives a hold, changes the approach clearance because of a runway change, beseeches you to hold 140 kts until the FAF, tells you to fly the missed because someone just caused the runway to close, and then you get three frequency changes just as you are getting the revised ATIS as demanded by approach control, things can get busy. No matter how prepared you are, at some point you are going to have to devote attention to something other than manipulating the controls to ensure heading, airspeed, and altitude.

Whether you turn on George when you are VFR is up to you, but use it when IFR to be safe.
 
RV7Guy said:
Regarding the "I want to fly it," mentality, I hand fly my RV quite often but never on a CC. My other aircraft is a medical helicopter that I hand fly, at night with Night Vision Goggles, in the mountains at just over 2000agl with possibly one of your relatives on board. That pretty much cures the hand flying my RV idea. Nuff said. BTW, the guy mentioned above also flies medical helicopters for the same company.:eek:
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I'm still paying for last year's 15 minute A-star ride... eesh you guys are expensive!
 
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