I

iwannarv

Well Known Member
This may seem like I am rambling on but here goes....

My name is Brad, I'm 17 years old and I am from a small town in south central Kansas. I recently obtained my private pilot license this past august, and grew up around aviation. I am a member of the local EAA chapter (Great Bend, KS), and drool over RV's whenever I get the chance. There are several RV's in our EAA chapter, and that is why I joined up on this site - so I can learn as much as I can, and have the motivation to start my own RV project as soon as financially possible. (RV7, 180hp carb, Hartzell C/S, Glass Panel, VFR Day/Night, Classic Aero Interior, Red/White/Black paint with smoooth sweeping lines up the tail --- Yeah, I've dreamed about it a little :D)

Anyways, I am a Senior, and currently enrolled in a separate Entrepreneurship Charter School. A project in the class is actually starting and running our own business. Of course, I am wanting to do something that is aviation related, and an idea right now is making aircraft chocks painted to match a customer's airplane, and with a decal of the N# of the airplane. Right now, this is only an idea and have not started, but I am currently seeking ideas of what I can do with limited resources. The chocks are too easy to build yourself, so that is why I am open to other ideas.

Thanks a bunch!
 
Business

Brad the best thing you can do is spend as much time around the airport as you can. This will give you more time to see what goes on at the airport. Every time you talk to a person in aviation and hear a complaint or suggestion, take note of that and try to come up with a solution that will make it better, smarter or more cost effective. It will take time and the idea may not be readily apparent. Be careful every idea will not be a winner, but all it takes is one that works!

In addition to the wheel chalks as a business how about detailing planes? Most every pilot loves a good looking plane. Is there a charter service at your airport? You are in the middle of cattle country and those cattle buyers fly in to buy cattle in some very nice aircraft and there may be a need for them that you could fill. FBO? Check with them and see. Rans Aircraft is in Hays KS just 65 miles from Great Bend. Contact them or go see them. If you don't try you will never know. The worst that they could say no, You will hear a lot of that but be persistent and it will happen. Let it be known that you are looking. Get the word out just like you did here.

Although you want to do something in aviation, in reality you will be in the people business. Make friends and doors will open!

If you?re going to do something, try to make it something that you will enjoy and be passionate about, it makes the job turn into FUN!

Good Luck.
 
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Tony's right......

Brad,
There are many guys building RVs, some probably in your area in your EAA chapter as well. Learn to buck rivets and help instead of standing around and asking too many questions. I had a young guy that came by here and he was a lot of help to me while I was building the 6A.

It will lead to rides, maybe part time income when your aluminum working skills come up to par and so on. You sound like aviation is your draw and that's good. You'll be more successsful if you're doing something that you enjoy.

Blue skies and tailwinds..... :D
 
Thanks for the quick replies! I am always keeping my ears open and listening for ideas. If I could, I would do something with a local FBO, but the town's airport is a 1/2 mile grass strip with a few hangars. (For detailing airplanes - don't even have a water source out there) The nearest airport with an FBO is 35 miles away...

Yes, I would like to do something that will benefit me - like aluminum working skills. Maybe I could just build and sell van's toolboxes :p !
 
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Aviation business

Brad,
Congratulations on obtaining your PPL and being an EAA member while still in high school. The vast majority of us on this site wish we had had the opportunities that lie before you at such a young age.

I really can't add to what Tony wrote in his post, but if you will find something that you are passionate about and you enjoy, combined with being priced at a fair and profitable price, then there is good reason to expect success with it.

I think the chock idea is a good idea. There may be others, but don't forget marketing. Sometimes that just means word of mouth at the airport.

Good luck...and I'm looking forward to seeing your completed RV in a few years!

Don Hull

P.S. After reading your second post, I will add another thought. Since you are computer savvy, you might think about setting up a web page or posting For Sale notices on several web sites.
 
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You are on the right track. After having worked for "the man" for the last 25 or so years, I can definitely say that going the route of being self reliant or self employed is the direction I would go if starting over. Not to say all companies are bad. Just too many that are too volitile and unpredictable for a comfortable lifestyle.

As for what products are good to go after, like the other said hang out in the environment and think. You're still pretty young and open-minded. This is the best way to find a demand.

Now, for your class. It sounds simple, but how about a specialized aircraft cleaning service. There are already people who clean planes, but maybe you could angle in on cleaning experimentals. One of your sales pitches could somehow focus on the extra careful attenention to cleaning custom planes.

Another idea might center around "specialized" shop assistance skills - like bucking rivets, driving rivets, sweeping, priming parts, etc. Would sound good to your high school teacher. Might find some builders willing to hire a little help. Just a couple of ideas. Up to you to figure out the details!

As for the plane - it's great to have dreams. I can remember pricing Piper Cherokees new out of the Flying new aircraft reference magazine in '75. Had a plan, but always knew it wouldn't go into effect until after school. Don't let the RV get in the way of a good, solid college degree from an accredited, recognized institution. Something general and useful like business, science, etc.

2 cents based on having been there, done that, in many instances.

Blue skies and tailwheels.....
 
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Builder asisstance on wheels.

Good thread going here.

Building on Low Pass's post, why not a Builder's assistance on wheels type thing. There are several builders assistance shops around the US, but you have to travel to them, and they help with you empennage kit only. But there may very well be a market for travelling builders assistance.

Case in point: My wife doesn't really like to help. And while I appreciate it when she does help, she doesn't put nearly as much pride in craftsmanship as I do. I was held up for two weeks waiting for my dad / bucking partner to be available to help. There are lots of these things where builders truly need two people, but only one is available. I would have gladly paid someone to lend a hand for about four days to knock that out, especially if they already knew what they were doing. Additionally, your only expenses associated with this are travel, meals, and lodging.
- It's something you (reportedly) enjoy
- You can learn a TON about the building process
- When you finally build YOUR plane, you KNOW what options to use, which ones to leave out, when to follow the directions to the T, and when to deviate a little.
- And you earn a little money at the same time, maybe enough to purchase one or two of the subkits.
- You meet several builders in a relatively localized area, making new contacts, broadening your social network.

On the wheel chocks idea. It's true that almost anyone can make them, and honestly, if they built the airplane, they probably WILL build their own chocks...out of wood. Like you said, it's very straight-forward. If you could make them out of Aluminum and make them light and small enough to stow in the plane however, now we're talking.

Here are some others:
Personalized items: Hats, Shirts, Sweatshirts, Jackets, Pub Glasses, Coasters, Mugs, etc.

Custom Airplane photography: (Ground Photo's, not Air to Air.) Come out, set it up, take photos, frame with custom matting. While a good camera would be nice, some basic instruction, a simple digital camera, and Photoshop could make a really good product. (You could combine this with the custom airplane detailing idea. Everyone wants the photos to be with a CLEAN, SHINY airplane.) No water, no problem. Dry Wash.

If I can think of any others, I'll post another reply. Good luck to you!
 
You gotta do something that can be scaled up. For example, airplane cleaning will never make you diddly, since there's only one of you, unless you take on employees. This, however, creates a new never-ending list of frustrations. Find something that can be mass produced for pennies, perhaps overseas, and sold via the web. The chock idea is a good one provided they are really cool and made cheap. Several folks on this forum produce various RV related stuff, but I suspect most don't realize much of a profit due to the limitations of a one-man production line. On the other hand, consider that Van's is able to ship entire airframe kits to the Phillipines, pay to have them assembled, ship em back to the US, and still turn a handsome profit.

Do the math and you'll see that a one man airplane cleaning or rivet bucking service will not support you (and an RV addiction). Keep thinking and you'll definitely come up with something great.

Now go get yer f-ing shinebox! :p
 
Rv builders

Brad I am researching RV builders in KS. I will be calling them to see if they would be interested in mentoring you in the build process. Update to come as soon as the builders return my phone calls. BTW I know of 5 builders with in 150 miles of your location and one in Great Bend. I have placed a call to the closest one first. Lets hope he has time.

Another idea is Wichita KS. Aviation is very plentiful there several manufactures and many RV builders.
 
Mostly, all the profit made off of this 7 month project will go toward everyday expenses. (More t/w instruction and avgas included... Not to start another debate, but I don't want that funny rubber doughnut hanging off the front of my future rv) You never know - if some miracle happends and I make thousand of dollars over the internet - the tail kit will be on order!

But for now, simple things to give me something to do for a project. Yes.. if there was a local RV builder in the area within driving distance - it would greatly benefit me to get first-hand experience building. But remember, I'm just a dreaming teenager! Hopefully that will not limit me.
 
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Aircraft Manual Boilerplates

Here's another idea for you....

Research, write, and sell aircraft flight manuals. Most builders get as far as writing checklists for their specific airplane, and maybe get a copy of a full manual that some other builder has done, but never really do a complete book for their airplane.

Build a generic template, tweak it for each model, and keep them in your computer. Now a builder wants a really nice manual for his/airplane - you take your template, tell the builder what data you need from him, type it in, and you've got a nice product. The beautiful thing is that most of your real work is done once, up front, and then you merely make tweaks later on. Your costs are essentially nothing - it's just your time, a computer, and some media. Dang....maybe I'm giving away a good idea! :p Oh, that's right, I don't have the time....

Good luck!

Paul
 
Can anyone tell that Paul works for the government? (There's a lot of "Boilerplate" in our documents.)

Man, Paul, you're putting me to shame! I should have thought of that! Actually, Brad, I think Paul has a great idea worthy of your consideration...
Don
Another Guv'mint employee
 
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Brad,
Go for it kid. I had an itch to be self-employed when I was 19. As things turned out I was 34 when I finally got my wish. I should have done it sooner.

Let's look at what you have to work with. You're not in a big town, and you don't have much commercial aviation activity close by. So, first criteria is that you need to be able to (1) market at a distance, and (2) easily ship the product, get the customers coming to you, or be able to go where the customers are gathered.

Obviously you want to market something for which there is a need.

I'll throw out two offhand ideas. The first assumes you don't have much capital, but you're reasonably inventive. I think you were close with the chock idea. Chocks are too common and too easy. Instead you might want to consider developing a really good tiedown kit to carry in an airplane. A quick walk around any airshow will convince you that most guys are not carrying anything worth a hoot. The target product might sell for less than $75 (do some marketing price measures, your school instructor will help you). It should be an attractive, tidy kit, in a canvas carry bag (probably cheap to have produced) or something similar. The inventive part is developing a system that really holds well in a variety of soil types (the experimenting is cheap). Lends itself to internet marketing too; demonstration need not be much more complicated than a photo of you tiedown resisting some significant (and perhaps amusing) force.

On slightly different approach to the same idea, you might consider simply buying and reselling a tiedown. I have a pair of what I think are military tent stakes, about 2 feet long, a bit less than 1" diameter, made of aluminum. They are lightweight and drive deep enough that they hold well. Maybe you can buy a quantity of them via the online DOD surplus sales, repackage (those nice kit bags), and sell. They're great.

New idea. Let's assume you have access to moderate capital and you're the sort who likes science, math and engineering. Is there anybody in your part of the world doing dynamic propeller balancing? A complete 2015 kit from ACES is about $3900 (less than most teenage used cars) and would put you in business through college. Stick to experimentals. With a little promotion I'll bet you can pull in $1000 a day at any active EAA chapter fly-in. You'll also build an aviation reputation very quickly. You'll be the smart kid who does good work.

Dan Horton
 
skills

Brad,

Before focusing on aviation, maybe you should focus on your skills first. You can be an amateur and still be successfull. Kitbuilders do that every day.

For example, in college (80's) I had a friend who hand-made a teddy bear for his gf. Took him weeks. Drove him crazy. But once he'd made one, he could make a new one in a few hours. Of course, by then, his mom, the gf's mom, sister, and all their friends wanted one. After awhile, he was getting $50-60 for each bear.

Another college friend was an amateur artist, with not alot of public confidence in her work. A friend asked her to help paint some furniture. She did detail work, flowers, leaves, lines, etc. Looked like inlays. Someone saw that and asked her if she could do detail lines on a hot rod. The answer to that question ultimately ended up paying for her college tuition.

For aviation, look for things that kitbuilders don't want to hassle with. Fuel tanks, upholstery, etc. Here's one - all these guys are raving about polished aluminum finishes on RV's, but it takes alot of work to get there, and then annual maintenance. So they end up paying $7-15K to paint their planes. How much polishing could you do, for say $2K?
 
Check around Wichita

Brad,
Lots of great ideas so far on this site for you. I know exactly where you are located as I lived in Wichita and still bird hunt in Hudson.
I know you are close enough to Wichita (Air Capital of the World) that you should check to see if any of the manufacturers or machine shops have something built for aviation that may not require a full time person or set up in a shop that they could "farm out" to you. It costs firms a lot of money to set up for a small run but might work for you to do after school. They might even let you use a production machine in your garage or shop. It never hurts to ask questions. Contact the machine shops and let them know what you are considering. See if they have work to send to Great Bend to you.
Artistic? How about hand lettering individual's names on airplanes? Stencil it on if not artistic. How many "N" numbers could be stenciled or redone? Keep it simple like Mr. Ford, ..."you can have any color you like as long as it is black."
Prep fiberglass parts for assembly or paint.
Prepare specific flight task sheets for Phase I test flights. One per flight. Create sheets to cover all Phase I, package and sell over the internet.
Get proficient in the RV series and offer to do the Phase I testing (not first flight), prepare the data on your flight sheets (which you produced) and bind in a nice booklet form for the builder.
How many RV series planes (flying) are sold without this hard data in hand? Get paid to produce the printed material and bind it to the new owner. You fly their plane for free (avoiding commercial regulations/restrictions) and get paid to deliver book form data. Now why didn't I do that??
I envy your enthusiasm to work around aviation. Keep your options open and ask a lot of questions and do the best work possible.
Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO Building in Wichita, KS
RV9-A 942WG (reserved) slider
RV9-A 942PT (reserved) tip-up
 
gorbak said:
Brad,
I know exactly where you are located as I lived in Wichita and still bird hunt in Hudson.
Click to expand...

Very interesting that you bird hunt in Hudson! I'm actually from Stafford, just a few miles south, so you know what I'm talking about when I say I don't have many resources!
 
srv said:
How much polishing could you do, for say $2K?
Click to expand...

This is simply buying yourself a tedious, miserable job, not building a business. I'm sure polishing an entire plane could take several days, if not a full week. If you work every week, that's $2000/week. Now subtract out the travel, materials and equip, insurance, advertising, etc. Don't forget to take out all the time when the weather's bad. Of course, it's also pretty hard to go to college when you're spending all day buffing aluminum, so plan on doing it forever. This is not what you want for lasting security. You gotta find something that relies more on brain than brawn. Paul's idea for manuals is a good example.
 
Inspirational

iwannarv said:
This may seem like I am rambling on but here goes....

My name is Brad, I'm 17 years old and I am from a small town in south central Kansas. I recently obtained my private pilot license this past august, and grew up around aviation. I am a member of the local EAA chapter (Great Bend, KS), and drool over RV's whenever I get the chance.
Click to expand...


Okay, this is very inspirational that the kid has some goals in mind and realizes a great airplane when he sees it.

I'll kick in a $100 toward buying the kid a tail kit. Who else wants to match it?
 
I love to see this! Not enough people getting into aviation. As someone who's "doing that" exact thing over the past couple years, I can offer some pointers.

Try to build yourself a business that isn't just a copy of someone elses....if you get a good customer base the rest will work itself out. You'll notice the most successfull business in aviation are those that don't have to advertise and there's a reason for that - the best engine builders, the best avionics shops, the best painters, etc....all regularly have to turn away work and don't have to advertise too much! Also, when you think of a name for your busines, try to make it unique. If you have to name it something like "Super Duper Reliable Affordable Accurate Cheap Fast Best Aviation", then it's likely you're none of the above or just the opposite!

Note: Aviation itself is a terribly low margin business to begin with. You'll never make a living just selling someone elses products, you have to be able to offer your own added value of some sort or produce your own product of some sort. Notice all the Internet sites selling aircraft stuff, but the owners work another full time job......many of them we all know and support, but frankly it's a waste of time to do that if you're serious. Sure, it might buy some gas, but it'll never pay the bills.

There is no substitue for real world experience. All the schooling in the world won't help you if you don't have some experience of some sorts under your belt. My shop is full of people who have tons of experience and I'd rather hire a guy who's built an RV than a PHD with no actual hands on experience.

Last but not least, be prepared to spend a LOT of time and energy on your business....this is shy why it's 10:00 pm on Friday night and I'm still in the office. I'm living proof it can be done. I started with exactly $2800 a few years ago and now my business has 14 employees and is doing somewhere in the low millions (I am pretty proud of that 1st "millionth dollar" hanging on my wall)! I'm FAR from getting rich, but Lord I'm meeting some SUPER people, having a great time and doing what I love.

GOOD LUCK. I wish you were in Minneapolis and I'd have you working here....

Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6 Flying
RV7 - (in the middle of overhauling a 360 for it).

P.S., don't forget the old saying....the only way to make a million bucks in aviation or agriculture is to start out with 10 million :)

P.P.S, count me in on a hundred bucks towards the kids tail kit!
 
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Use color!

iwannarv said:
........here goes....My name is Brad, I'm 17 years old........I am wanting to do something that is aviation related........I am open to other ideas....
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Brad, You are on the right track appealing to airplane owner's vanity. Custom is what we like. Consider learning how to and start a one man operation doing color anodizing work on various small aluminum parts. The key to this type operation is letting EVERYBODY know about it. That means you have to develop a good website with LOTS of pictures of your work as examples. Dozens of parts on RVs lend themselves to custom color anodizing such as baffles, canopy components, engine accessories, etc. Look to custom cars and motorcycles as inspiration and examples of the various beautiful colors that are available. Note how many different parts on vehicles lend themselves to color anodizing. A simple Google search will lead you to many relatively inexpensive starter kits available for the first time anodize enthusiast. Good luck on whatever business you decide to pursue.
 
Trust me dude, you'll get it done. From one very recently a dreaming teenager to another, time flies during this point in your life.

I started flying when I was 15, got my PPL when I was 17, A&P when I was 18, Instrument 19, Commercial at 20 and now my CFI at 21. You can do anything you put your mind to, but at this point in your life, I would like to suggest that you focus some of your energy to getting a Batchlors degree in something. I know if I hadn't gone to college, my RV could be done by now, but I'm still glad I'm going.

So far, I'm the youngest guy I know that has purchased his own kit and is building, see if you can beat me... I started when I was 20.

Oh and I agree about that funny rubber doughnut thing on the front of some RV's... what is up with that eh?
 
speechless...

At this moment all I can say is that I'm speechless! I could not believe it when I first saw the offer on helping me buy a tail kit for a future RV. I do not want to sound ungreatful, or greedy. It is something that I was not expecting. I was asking for ideas on some businesses, and it came to the possibility of helping me at a young age live the dream many of us share. Some of you might feel inspired by my interest it RV's at my young age, and seeing the generosity on this site just skyrocketed my pride to be associated with people in aviation (especially experimental aviation, and RV flyers/builders).

On the education, yes I do plan on going to college to get an education. I am planning on a business/marketing degree, and hopefully using my flying passion for an Aviation Marketing related career. I knew that I wanted to build an RV, and I was trying to figure out how I will be able to buy a tail kit to start. If I could work on a tail through college, that would be great. Starting sooner I thought was unimagineable.

Some more backgroud on me. I live on a farm, and my father is a former ag pilot (along with my grandfather and great-grandfather). My grandfather and great-grandfather both have restored airplanes (cubs). I was wishing I can follow in their footsteps and do something like they did (what set my mind on an RV). There are a few people in my area who have built RV's that I could ask for assistance if needed, and naturally being on a farm I grew up learning how to work with my hands.

I completely understand that building an RV is not a quick easy deal to just put together. It will take me many years, and after college, to get to the point I will be able to get a wing and fuse kit, and complete an airplane. But the experience will be something I will be able to share with older generations, and something I hope I can pass down to younger generations after me...

On the donations for the tail kit... I am still speechless. I guess I will have to wait and see what becomes of this, and see where this opportunity could take me.
 
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I'll pitch a hundred bucks too, but on one condition...

I want to see that Brad has chosen his business venture and started pursuing it. Any reasonable evidence of salable product or service (web site, brochure, etc...) will be fine for a hundred from me.
 
Anodizing... Interesting

I looked at color anodyzing, and it looks like a very interesting process. However, it seems like there are several steps involved, and a lot of set-up to get ready for the process. Something like that would be a little more dificult to do in a classroom.

How about powdercoating? It wouldn't toughen the surface like anodizing, but produce a nice finish. I have looked at some powdercoating kits before, and it was something I was very interested in. I could powdercoat parts, but also make nice, finished products (powdercoated, personalize aircraft chocks?). It would open up to other possibilities... :cool:
 
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I don't have much money, but I can pitch in a few tools here and there, not a whole kit, but some of the dupicates I have and maybe some new stuff as well, at least the essentials for getting him through the tail. I also have an untouched Van's airfoil project, if he wants to start on that sometime.
 
Rick6a said:
Brad, You are on the right track appealing to airplane owner's vanity. Custom is what we like.
Click to expand...

No joke. I've been looking for someone who could put a picture of my plane embroidered on a hat with my N-number for three years.

Another idea would be panel labeling. When I was building I looked all over for someone who could take a "Word" document of all the labels I needed in the font I'd chosen and produce a sheet of rub-on labels.
 
Rv builders

Brad I have a RV builder contact for you in Great Bend! Call me or email me off of the list so we can get you the info. 800-774-0828
 
Suprised Doug hasn't chimed in here :rolleyes: . I thought I read somewhere that he was an Entreprenuership major in college??

If it gets to that point where I am able to buy a tail kit, you guys who have helped with your offers - How would you like your name painted on the tail? (when it gets to that point several years down the road). ;)

Of course, there would be a VAF logo on there somewhere. :D
 
iwannarv said:
Suprised Doug hasn't chimed in here :rolleyes: . I thought I read somewhere that he was an Entreprenuership major in college??...snip
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LOL!
I'm swamped enough thinking of ways to make money myself :p :D :) .
FWIW, I majored in it because I heard it was easy. It wasn't!
b,
d
 
I'll help anyway I can..

Hi Brad, if you get that Van's RV of your dream. Give me a buzz and I'll help you. I'm just a little ways down south of you in Oklahoma. When it happens I'm good at glass work, firewall forward issues, baffling, cowling work, engine things, etc... You'll get there but it takes one day at a time. When the day comes give me a ring and I'll help you. AJ
 
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