Peter.Fruehling

Peter.Fruehling

Well Known Member
OK my wife Beth and I have all our tools, (from Isham) the shop is done and we we're about to mail the order form for our -7A emp when we looked at each other and thought...huh...I wonder what the 8A is like to travel in? ...boy center line seating would be COOL (for me!/for her?)...what's the view really like for her back there...we've only flown in a -7A and I guess that's why we're ordering one...right?!? :confused:

So we set the brake and want to hear from all of you about the -8(A) as a x-country machine. I've never flown a tandem airplane and don't doubt I would love it as a solo weekend ripper (vs. the -7A) but can it work for a couple who like to travel?

(Flight data: she flies about 1 flight for every 8 I fly solo)

So lets hear it -> and don't be shy about giving BOTH positives and negatives about tandem or side by side seating!

Thanks for your thoughts!

- Peter

PS - She currently flies somewhere with me about every month or two and we like being able to see each other enroute. (she's kinda cute!)
 
Not that I'm any kind of authority but I went with the 7 so that we would have the side-by-side seating. We will be empty nesters next year and plan on traveling a fair amount as we have relatives all over the U.S. I was probably a little like you and never thought about it too much, just ordered a 7 kit. It will be interesting to see the replies form those who have already finished and are flying.

I don't think you can go wrong with either one actually! ;)
 
7 vs. 8

On a personal basis, I have always preferred tandem seating for its visibility - IE: sightseeing - which is a big part of flying for me. And you must admit it is more sporty. I hear comments that the -8 is almost like a mini-fighter.

But having a wonderful wife, who's company I truly enjoy - I can't help but wonder if we will be happy with her "bringing up the rear" - out of sight and touch (no comments here).

Sorry if this isn't any help. I am in the same thought evolutionary process - just much earlier on... as it will probably be a while before I make a commitment to build anything.
 
Phyrcooler said:
But having a wonderful wife, who's company I truly enjoy - I can't help but wonder if we will be happy with her "bringing up the rear" - out of sight and touch (no comments here).
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Ditto...I want to be able to share the experience with my better half. I'll save the tandem seating for the Pitts (yes, I'm planning ahead a bit....gonna build the Pitts after the Bearhawk...lol).

Also, we'd like to be able to travel with our dog. I tried talking Ellen into letting me cut him into a front-baggage-compartment half and a rear-baggage-compartment half....no sale, thus the -7 :)

I've mostly flown Citabrias, so I know what I'm missing everytime I step into a 172 or something. If I were building the plane just for myself, I would have probably built the -8.

One more thing re: taildragger vs. nosedragger. I don't know how true this is, but I hear the taildragger -8, and the nosedragger -7A have the gear supports right through the cockpit in a most annoying place and I suppose the nosedragger -8A and the traildragger -7 don't. Maybe someone who knows what they're talking about could chime in here.
 
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I have an RV-8

Positives:

- Excellent visibility
- Centerline pilot view -- excellent especially on final
- Best looking of the RVs (my opinon)
- Superb for aerobatics
- Lockable storage up front is a nice feature

Negatives:

- poor to non-existent heat in the back seat
- air comes in under the back edge of the canopy
- CG is generally too far forward and thus you need a bit of ballast in the rear baggage if you fly alone
- limited panel space
- difficult to teach / demonstrate

If you fly alone a lot, the RV-8 is great. If you fly with a spouse, I would recommend the RV-7. I have flown my -8 to FL (from VA) and to Wisconsin Michigan and Pennsylvania. Always with a backseater. Generally they don't complain, but I think that's because I have a really good looking head (from the back anyway).

Bottom line, I am keeping my -8 for the foreseeable future, but I think the 7 is a better plane for most people.

I have the tailwheel. I like it and whatever plane I might have in the future is likely to have a tailwheel.

bruce
N297nw
 
I'm building the -8A... my most likely passenger's big concern was that she would be left "alone" in the back seat and unable to talk over the engine noise. Once she understood that she'd have an ANR headset and there would be an intercom, she said either type would be fun. We both like the equal visibility to either side.
 
Togetherness!!

The wife and I took a short hop on Saturday and looked at a friend's brand new, freshly signed off-8A. Her first comment on the way home was that it
'sure is so much nicer to sit next to my baby!' Kiss..kiss..hold hands...
Ive owned tandems (AT-6, Super cubs) and fly taildraggers for a living but would rather have a nosegear, side-by-side for company and ease of communications. Methinks wifey should try on both and let her decide!!
2 cents,
Pierre
 
And there 'ya go, put all these posts together and you can condense it all down to wanting, or not wanting, to interact with your wife during trips.

I also will probably be flying by myself in a ratio of about 8 to 1, with 8 being solo. However, since this aircraft has as it's most important mission of being a cross country aircraft for my wife and I to use all the way up to and through retirement, there never was a question that she'd sit next to me rather than behind me.

Next time you two go to church, ask your wife to sit in the row behind you and see what she says. :D

She may be OK with the 8 at first, but eventually, she'll start having these internal, subliminal, unconscious thoughts about your building an 8 because you can't stand to look at her and are thinking of leaving her. She can't help but think like that; she's a wife. :eek:
 
My decision had nothing to do with my wife. I am sure she likes the decision, but mine was more practical. My dog will be flying with us and the baggage setup is more conducive in the -7.

Also, more panel space, less CG sensitive, easier SB design, better vis with the tip up and a place to put crap on long solo flights.


:cool: CJ
 
N200PF said:
So we set the brake and want to hear from all of you about the -8(A) as a x-country machine. I've never flown a tandem airplane and don't doubt I would love it as a solo weekend ripper (vs. the -7A) but can it work for a couple who like to travel?

(Flight data: she flies about 1 flight for every 8 I fly solo)

So lets hear it -> and don't be shy about giving BOTH positives and negatives about tandem or side by side seating!
Click to expand...

I think I have answered this on here before. But here goes.
I am probably one of the few builder owners who have done both SbS and Tandem AND have a wife that likes to travel. Started with the 6A. Wife and I traveled all over in it. She loves to fly. Actually she loves the destination better. But when building the tandem 8 all I heard was complaining about her looking at the back of my head and blah blah blah. I just knew I would never hear the end of it. She asked for only 2 things in the 8 after listening to all her wife traveling friends in theor 8's. Heat and GPS.

So I gave her both of those. On her very first flight in the 8 she was completely sold. She loves the much improved visibility, she loves her own space, she loves her own space being much more than before. In her own words," Ill never go back to the SbS." Boy did I luck out on that cause Im also sold on the tandem for obvious reasons.

SO there you have it. I have a stubborn wife :mad: whom I was sure was going to cause me misery :( for the rest of my life having to look at the back of my head. With my mirrors , heat , and gps back there, she is not only not complaining, she loves it.

Wife Michelle has talked to many builders wifes to get them over the hump with their builders husbands. She would be glad to talk to Beth Im sure.

From Canada to Maine, From the Carribean to California, we have traveled all over together. She is well travelled in an RV.

You can contact me off line and Ill hook you up.
Best,
 
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My wife and I fly about 300hrs a year travelling. As retirement approaches I have had to gradually decrease spending to be ready for the dreaded day of low fixed income.

Initialy we flew a 685 Commander then downsized from that to a Cessna 414 and occassionally a King Air.

Then the quantum down leap to the F1.

She is my co-pilot of 35 years managing fuel and helping with navigation, although since the advent of GPS the Nav duties have dropped off significantly. About an hour into each flight she either drops off to sleep or reads, often in the back of the plane.

I much more enjoy having her beside me than behind and she would prefer sitting along side.

She does not, however dislike the tandem seating and likes the view
better than the side by side. As she is not a pilot she doesn't care about seeing the instruments. Pilot passengers complain bitterly when sitting in the back because they cannot view the instrument panel.

I liked the tandem first time I flew an RV 8.

Downside of the F1 and probably RV 8 is "in cockpit" baggage and access to same.

As far as kiss kiss/snuggling we get plenty of that at the destination..

I am getting ready to start building and it too will be a tandem with a taildragger.

Having said that an RV 6 or 7A would keep me a very happy pilot.
 
SBS versus Tandem

I believe there is not an answer that is correct for everyone. I had planned to build an RV7, most likely the nose roller version. I ordered the preview plans and arranged my shop. Before I ordered the tail kit I had an opportunity to ride in the back seat of an 8. The center line seating made me start to reconsider.
My wife does not share my flying enthusiasm. I expect to be solo most of the time. I told her that if I had some expectation of her being with me even 10% of the time, I would build a SBS, other wise it would be the tandem. She was not willing to commit to even that much. So, it is the 8.

I expect that she will do a limited amount of travelling with me since our children live too far away for frequent visits by auto.
 
Thanks for all the info guys!!! You all bring up VERY VALID points that have helped us a ton!

We're planning to try an -8 on for size on March 11th and hopefully will make our decision then and GET STARED for heaven's sake!

Kahuna - Beth may take you up on your offer and e-mail you to talk to you better half. She wants a perspective from someone that, as she puts it, doesn't get to sit in the front seat".

Thanks again and any additional comments are certainly welcome!

- Peter
 
Who wants to rub a$$cheeks with your pax?!?

I'll take the tandem anyday. When flying a pax (male), you don't have to get all snuggly and cuddly with the dude. Flying to brokeback mountain ain't my cup 'o tea. :eek:

When my wife and I travelled in my -8 a lot (before my son was born), she found the back seat very much to her liking, with a great view out either side, and she could stretch out or cross her legs on the seat without interfering with the controls. (I keep the aft stick out of the weldment most of the time.)

As for "keeping in touch" with her, all she has to do is lean forward, rub my neck, while I fiddle with her tiny little feet down in the footwells. It's plenty intimate in the tandem...but only when you WANT to be! :D

Since you'll be flying mostly solo (like the great majority of us, I'll wager), taylor the airframe decision on the most likely mission profile and build to suit. Besides, I know sidebysiders often get runs in their pantyhose from the engine control bracket that isn't there in the RV8. :p The -8 footwells also make great beer....uh..REFRESHMENT holders. And, when you step down out of the -8, you do so with aplomb and swagger, without the curtsey and hair flip that is required in all sidebyside POH's.

So there. Hehe.

Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
sixth annual underway
 
Tandem vs Side By Side

I only flew as pax in two different rv-6's. One as a short flight with Randall Henderson, and one flight from Portland to the Reno air races with Bob Neuner. However I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 hours in the back seat of Randy Lervolds RV-8. One trip from Vancouver Washington to Oshkosh and back. Personally, I found far more room available to me in the eight. As for stareing at the back of his head, not a problem, it also made a great target when I had to get his attention. But those times make for a complete new thread on the forums. :D
 
Peter:

We all made the analysis to decide which way to go. If it was just for me, I would likely have an 8 but I got a 7 for the following reasons.

a. Cross country: nice to have a place beside me for charts, lunch or any other needs when the seat is empty. If occupied, nice to have a spare lap to set those things on in a pinch.

b. Make the significant other feel at home by sitting beside me and being able to participate in navigation and communication. This also adds to situational awareness and possibly safety as the passenger can see front and sidesmfor traffic.

c. I've had 3 passengers vomit while flying with me. All 3 were in back of a T-34. I was NOT flying aggresively. I've given this quite a bit of thought and theorize it's a function of spacial disorientation resulting from confusing signals between the eyes and ears. In the T-34, passengers spend most of thier time looking to the side because they can't see forward past my head and the seat back. Looking strait ahead at the horizon is our best method for calming a dissoriented system but, the tandem arrangement hampers that.

In the end, I consider (let me ensure this is understood to be my criteria for my flights) the 8 to be a single seat mount with the ability for an occassional ride. If I want a passenger ship, or one predominantly for XC, then the 8 is out of mission profile.

Remember, this is my analysis for my needs - not a critique of anyone elses analysis or purchase decision.

Jekyll
 
I went through the 7 or 8 debate as well

I would much rather fly a tandem aircraft if it were just me. In the end, I went with a 7 for the following reasons:

1) My wife is an excellent copilot and we work better in side by side aircraft.
2) My wife footed half the bill, I think that deserves a ride up front.
3) I did not want my wife looking at my bald spot for hours on end :eek:


Yes, its all about her :)
 
good stuff

Boy it's funny to see folks get sanctimonious about their choices! Let me contribute my unneeded and potentially incendiary opinion, just for kicks.

1) The back seat in the 8 is cramped, isolated, cold and potentially claustrophobic in my opinion. The view is not as good as in the front seat since although you gain a view from both sides, you lose the view up front. I don't recall well, but I think the GIB also loses a fair amount of downward visibility due to the wing.

2) The SBS gives you the opportunity to look at someone when you are talking to them. If that's not your thing, you probably don't have anyone to sit beside you anyway :eek:

3) It's nice to have the company of someone sitting beside you when you fly together. I'm not homophobic so I don't care if it's a guy sitting close to me; though the experience is enhanced if it's your wife, girlfriend or some other attractive member of the opposite sex.

4) The SBS gives you a place to spread charts out and lay other "must have" items (like lunch) on cross countries.

5) My wife doesn't consider touching her feet a sign of affection, but touching . . . well let's not go there. Let's just say the SBS is more intimate.

In summary I am with Jekyll. If you are the swaggering, loner pilot aiming to burn holes in the sky and only plan on taking passengers along occassionally on your short, VFR only flights -- build the 8.

If you intend to use the plane to travel, see the country, visit friends and family and you enjoy social interaction and the company of others, in other words if you are a well adjusted human being, then build a SBS.

I think there is even a personality test I saw somewhere that will further help with the decision. It asks questions like: do you want to paint a military paint scheme on your plane, do you prefer Jack Daniels or Makers Mark to Margaritas, do you think computers are annoying, do you think dancing is ridiculous, do you pee standing up, etc. If you answer 70% of the questions "yes" you should build an 8. I will look for the link to the test for you.

Now that's some serious gasoline on the fire. Run for cover folks. It should flash any second. But wait, there's more! Let's talk about where the third wheel should go!

Before I get firebombed, please note the above was said in jest and was the result of an idle and potentially damaged mind.

Antony
 
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aparchment said:
If you intend to use the plane to travel, see the country, visit friends and family and you enjoy social interaction and the company of others, in other words if you are a well adjusted human being, then build a SBS.

Antony
Click to expand...

Oh jeez, now ya' done it. INCOMING!!!!
 
aparchment said:
I think there is even a personality test I saw somewhere that will further help with the decision. It asks questions like: do you want to paint a military paint scheme on your plane, do you prefer Jack Daniels or Makers Mark to Margaritas, do you think computers are annoying, do you think dancing is ridiculous, do you pee standing up, etc. If you answer 70% of the questions "yes" you should build an 8. I will look for the link to the test for you.
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LOL... love it...

Military Paint Scheme: No (I was thinking dayglow green and violet actually)
Jack Daniels: No
Maker's Mark: Yes*
Margaritas: I like them too**
Computers annoying: Yes***
Dancing... No****
Pee standing up: Yes*****


* my mother, the last time she was over for dinner at my house, asked for a small snifter of Maker's Mark to go with desert. When I asked her if she wanted it mixed with anything, she gave me a decidedly dirty look. I had a glass of LBV port myself.

**Straight Tequila is better

*** I've been making my living telling them what to do for almost 20 years...of course they are annoying!

****depends on how the dancer is dressed

*****When I can.

I've got to agree with your basic premis that -8 drivers are selfish and uncaring louts. Evil is a better word really.

It is just more evidence that the world rewards evil.
 
Tandem VS side by side

I feel the same as Bruce on the PROS & CONS of the 8. Had a 6A, 8 and now a 7. The wife did NOT like the 8. Said she did not enjoy looking at the back of my head. Felt alone in the back. The side by side is more sociable whether the spouse or a friend. They can use radio, look at charts, see what is going on. I think the 8 is the sexiest of all but performance basically the same for all with same HP. Need to get her a ride in the 8 and BE SURE she is happy.
Good Luck.

Doug Preston
RV-7
N731RV
 
One more reason...

If your wife/passenger does like to actually pilot the plane then I like the
SBS because both pilots can share the single panel with all the expensive
(or cheap) goodies you have installed. In the Tandem, generally speaking,
the rear seat chap gets the short end of the stick as far as goodies goes.

I've flown in both and I prefer flying/riding in the front. :)
 
YEEEEHA!!! Sounds like ALL of you have made the right choice!!! :D

Beth and I are at least sitting in an -8 on March 11th at the Minnesota Wing of VAF meeting. (21D) ...and maybe Beth will get to check the view in flight if we're lucky!

If I'm really honest with myself the question I'm asking is: could my wife tolerate an -8A so I could have center line seating. Truth be told, I think she would but would also be CONSIDERABLY LESS excited about planning weekends around the plane. That makes me VERY nervous. The last thing I want is a $100K toy that I have to make excuses for pumping money in to vs. her asking when we can fly visit friends in other parts of the country like she does now.

We'll see what her reaction is to the -8 vs. the -7A she flew in and loved. ...and I know she'll give it a fair shake because she knows I would enjoy my solo time a bit more.

- Peter

PS - Anyone's wife (co-pilot) want to offer up their opinion on Tendem seating vs. Side by Side?!? ...not to say that there are some husband co-pilots out there! :rolleyes:
 
For all that I'm a proponent of the tandem, I've got to agree with the guys who say "make her happy" ... don't bias her or push her to go along with what you want if she won't be just as happy with it (not that any of us would ever do that, of course).
 
N200PF said:
If I'm really honest with myself the question I'm asking is: could my wife tolerate an -8A so I could have center line seating. Truth be told, I think she would but would also be CONSIDERABLY LESS excited about planning weekends around the plane. That makes me VERY nervous. The last thing I want is a $100K toy that I have to make excuses for pumping money in to vs. her asking when we can fly visit friends in other parts of the country like she does now.
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Not been married long, have 'ya? ;)
You're going to have to learn pretty quick about the old adage: "If momma ain't happy, nobody's happy".

If she sees that you're more excited about the 8, she'll probably say to go that way even if it doesn't excite her. Be careful man, you're treading on thin ice. :D
 
Bob Axsom said:
Which can you do without, your wife or the tandem RV? (Yeah, I know what you want.)
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Reminds me of some of the conversations we had when we were negotiating our travel schedules for work. Our final positions were, "It's easier to get a new job than a new wife".

And Rosie adds, "A happy wife is a happy life..."
 
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HighFlight -

That's EXACTLY what I was refering to in your quote. She would go along with it and THAT'S what "makes me VERY nervous".

I have to remember, an RV-7A would be a sweet ride compared to the Arrow II we fly now. It took Beth 35 minutes in an RV-7A (granted a very new, tricked out, GNS 530 type of 7A) to have her asking me how long it would take to build and start planning trips we could take when it's done! (Credit to the demo pilot there for not doing the old "yank & bank" demo!!!)

We have to look at the 8A to feel good about building either. That's really where this all started. The "mental questionmark" of the 8A would stick in my mind if we didn't give it a real look before we made our choice. We'll feel better building the 7A (if we choose that) if we know the 8A is not for us.

...but she might really like it! (OK I'm dreaming again! ...but you never know!)

- Peter
 
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