W

waynestir1

Member
Hey all,

Question, I've been thinking about switching over to a -8 from a -9A. These are my reasons for and against, tell me if they are justified please?

For:
-Performance
-Looks
-I can save some $$$ as I can get a pretty good deal
-due to the above, I can get flying sooner.

Against:
- Flight instruction, I was planning on getting instrument rated, my gf wants to get her license, I'm not sure how that can be done in an 8 with 1 set of instruments
-Tandem seating, the girlfriend wants to sit next to me.

I'm kinda stuck here and need some opinions :D

Thanks
-Wayne
 
waynestir1 said:
...
For:
-Performance
-Looks
-I can save some $$$ as I can get a pretty good deal
-due to the above, I can get flying sooner.
Click to expand...
All very good reasons.

waynestir1 said:
Against:
- Flight instruction, I was planning on getting instrument rated, my gf wants to get her license, I'm not sure how that can be done in an 8 with 1 set of instruments
-Tandem seating, the girlfriend wants to sit next to me.
Click to expand...
Dump the girl and build what you want. She can always learn in a 150.
 
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waynestir1 said:
Hey all,

Question, I've been thinking about switching over to a -8 from a -9A. These are my reasons for and against, tell me if they are justified please?

snipped
Against:
- Flight instruction, I was planning on getting instrument rated, my gf wants to get her license, I'm not sure how that can be done in an 8 with 1 set of instruments
-Tandem seating, the girlfriend wants to sit next to me.

I'm kinda stuck here and need some opinions :D

Thanks
-Wayne
Click to expand...

Wayne,
Place a lip stick camera in the cockpit aimed at the instrument panel. Add a display screen to the rear of the pilot's seat. The GIB now has a clear view of the panel.
Place a mirror on the roll over weldment. You and the GIB can now see each other's face! Side by side or tandem, you'll need headsets and an intercom to converse anyway! :p
Most of your flights will be solo anyway.
Charlie Kuss
 
Just marry the girlfriend

waynestir1 said:
-Tandem seating, the girlfriend wants to sit next to me.

-Wayne
Click to expand...



then she definitely will not want to sit next to you :D

Curiously I'm currently doing the same thing. Just decided that I wanted a more sporty plane.
 
Instruction

So, If I were to get instrument instruction in the -8 it really shouldnt be a big deal? That's also kind of a big worry, is that I won't be able to find a CFI for instrument training if he can't see the actual instruments?
 
I went through the same process, I'm building an -8

I realized that as much as my wife says she wants to fly next to me, the vast majority of my flying will be by myself. She will want to come when I am going somewhere she wants to go. So for her, its more about getting there than the actual flying.

To help her feel involved, I am setting up a Garmin 296 in the back, so she knows the speed, altitude, and can see where we are. She can be in charge of navigation. As said in another post, you need the intercom to talk anyway.
 
Give the 9 tail to your girlfriend. If she's worth keeping she'll finish the 9A herself. Then she'll let you use the 9 for instrument instruction. The important thing here, is for you to make sure she never gets near an RV8 until yours is finished and you have your inst. ticket.
Then after that, give her a ride in the RV8, if she doesn't like it Great, she can fly her 9. If she does like it, tell her to build her own, she did it once she can do it again!:D
 
If she doesn't want to fly in an RV-8, I would SERIOUSLY consider a new girl friend!!!
 
She's willing to fly the -8, Honestly the biggest thing holding me back is the instruction, as I know I want more and she will want as well. She's even willing to let me build the -8.

So, really the question boils down to the instruction question, which is the only real one that concerns me.
 
waynestir1 said:
She's willing to fly the -8, Honestly the biggest thing holding me back is the instruction, as I know I want more and she will want as well. She's even willing to let me build the -8.

So, really the question boils down to the instruction question, which is the only real one that concerns me.
Click to expand...

IFR training will be much easier in a side by side. I don't have any experience with ifr training in a tandem.
 
I went through a similar thought process but instead of a GF it was my wife. I believe the number one criteria should be that you build what you know you will be happiest with in the long run; you put way too much of your life into building one of these to end up with "I wish I had an -8". Number two is that most people say they want to sit side-by-side; but very few of those saying that have much or any experience flying. I personally would rather sit in the back seat of anything rather than the right seat in almost anything. Once most folks really do sit in back of a tandem they learn that it's really cool. Number 3, I don't think your GF could get basic training in any RV anyway. Make sure you talk with insurance companies and CFI's on this. Now I'll let you know what I did: I bought a Super Decathlon while I'm building a Rocket. The Rocket is the plane I want; we get to fly the Decathlon and have fun, and my wife has been taking her basic in the Decathlon; win-win :)
 
I agree with the above post very strongly. The view and comfort in the rear seat of the -8 is better than any of the other 2 seat RV's.

As for extra instrumentation, AFS has a slave screen available. It's really thin, and you only need an ethernet cable, power, and ground to run it. Then the back seater could have a full EFIS (not redundant to yours, it's a slave unit) with moving map etc.
 
larryj said:
I went through a similar thought process but instead of a GF it was my wife. I believe the number one criteria should be that you build what you know you will be happiest with in the long run; you put way too much of your life into building one of these to end up with "I wish I had an -8". Number two is that most people say they want to sit side-by-side; but very few of those saying that have much or any experience flying. I personally would rather sit in the back seat of anything rather than the right seat in almost anything. Once most folks really do sit in back of a tandem they learn that it's really cool. Number 3, I don't think your GF could get basic training in any RV anyway. Make sure you talk with insurance companies and CFI's on this. Now I'll let you know what I did: I bought a Super Decathlon while I'm building a Rocket. The Rocket is the plane I want; we get to fly the Decathlon and have fun, and my wife has been taking her basic in the Decathlon; win-win :)
Click to expand...

I like "8's", F1/Rockets, and especially the P-51D. The P-51 is also my wife's favorite aircraft. However, I much prefer cross-country flights with company. And for that, I much prefer the side by sides. I spent far too many years riding tandem on motorcycles.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Thats what I was thinking! Too bad money constraints won't let me build both

Thanks everyone for all their input, I've got more information, but it seems i'm no further in my decision :mad: I guess i'll have to sleep on it some more

-Wayne
 
Wayne,

Build your -9A as a -9. That way when you are finished and find out she never rides with you, you will have built up a good amount of tailwheel time and will be ready for that -8.
 
_8

waynestir1 said:
Hey all,

Question, I've been thinking about switching over to a -8 from a -9A. These are my reasons for and against, tell me if they are justified please?

For:
-Performance
-Looks
-I can save some $$$ as I can get a pretty good deal
-due to the above, I can get flying sooner.

Against:
- Flight instruction, I was planning on getting instrument rated, my gf wants to get her license, I'm not sure how that can be done in an 8 with 1 set of instruments
-Tandem seating, the girlfriend wants to sit next to me.

I'm kinda stuck here and need some opinions :D

Thanks
-Wayne
Click to expand...

To quote an old grizzled flight instructor who's been around a looong time; "Girlfriends fly" (and say they want to learn);)---"Wives DON'T".:rolleyes:

I have found this to be very very true.

If you wan't your Inst. Ticket, do it in a 152 then get a good long instrument checkout in VMC conditions in the -8 to make sure you can keep up with the much higher speeds of the RV's

Regarding the Girlfriend/Wife; IF and I repeat IF she does learn to fly, there's absolutely no reason a woman can't learn to transition into a tail dragger as well as a man.

Case in point. When I rebuilt my Aeronca Champ years ago, a local airline pilot and his wife came by during my final assembly and and checkout. She remarked that she had soloed that same aircraft years ago. The next day she came by with her log book and sure enough, she had soloed that same Champ. Her total time before solo----4hours and 15 minutes!!!!!!!!!!

They are few and far between but there are rare gems out there!:)

Bottom line---build what you want to see when you open the hangar door.
 
mannanj said:
To quote an old grizzled flight instructor who's been around a looong time; "Girlfriends fly" (and say they want to learn);)---"Wives DON'T".:rolleyes:

I have found this to be very very true.
Click to expand...

My wife just read this................and said "bull c-r-a-p! :D

Really! :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
mannanj said:
To quote an old grizzled flight instructor who's been around a looong time; "Girlfriends fly" (and say they want to learn);)---"Wives DON'T".:rolleyes:

I have found this to be very very true.
Click to expand...


Boy Mannan - you better hope Louise doesn't see this!!:rolleyes::p:D

There are some rare spouses out there that truly love flying. I think it is pretty uncommon for people to find a mate who enjoys aviation to the extent that both partners have their own planes - I have one of those rare gems!


Paul
 
Ironflight said:
Boy Mannan - you better hope Louise doesn't see this!!:rolleyes::p:D

There are some rare spouses out there that truly love flying. I think it is pretty uncommon for people to find a mate who enjoys aviation to the extent that both partners have their own planes - I have one of those rare gems!
Click to expand...

There are a group of us, that regularly fly to Nevada on Sundays for brunch at a hotel/casino. Most all of the spouses go, and really enjoy it.
I'm somewhat surprised at the "solo" comments. With all the great scenery that we have in the mountain west, I like taking other people along to see it from the air. Most all of my flights are cross country, though.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
So I called my CFI up, and he said he would be comfortable doing training in it if I had done a little bit of the dual in a rental that was side by side. But in order for it to qualify legally for dual, it needs to have full controls in the back as well. Which means brakes, stick, and throttle. Is this possible in the RV-8?
 
Never.....

....would I even consider giving dual in an -8 with no rear seat brakes, instruments and throttle and I'm reasonably sure that most other CFI's would agree. I've given one Biennial in the back of an -8 but the gent had a couple hundred hours in it, but that's it for me in the rear. Groundloops often end up on their back and I don't see that in my future.

My late boss gave dual in T-6's back when, but they're fully dual equipped, down to instruments, gyros and brakes.

BTW, my wife loves going flying with me (she's the new wife;)) and has no interest in looking at the back of my head....very vocally so.

Regards,
 
Instrument INstruction in an RV-8

I don't see any way you could get Instrument Instruction in an RV-8. If you had the rating you could obvioulsy fly with a safety pilot and get transition training in VFR conditions but you can't get the rating flying nothing but an RV-8. When I got my rating I was lucky enought to get to fly in a lot of actual - including approaches to minimums. No way you could do that with the GIB not being able to see the scan and have a complete set of instruments and controls in front of him.

Either rent another plane, or stick with the -9 if you want to get your rating in it.

If it was me I'd get the rating in something else and build the -8. Just don't build an A model 'cause its got a wheel on the wrong end of the airplane.
 
Guy Prevost said:
I agree with the above post very strongly. The view and comfort in the rear seat of the -8 is better than any of the other 2 seat RV's.
Click to expand...

Well, that's clearly a matter of opinion. :)

Passenger visibility forward in the -8, well, flat out sucks as it does with most tandem airplanes. Comfort factor...well...sucks because your feet are planted in position the entire time. In other words, you can't move your legs on long cross countries. In the SBS models, the passenger is free to cross their legs, more them forward and backward, etc.

My wife has flown as a passenger in an -8 and quite a bit in my -7A. She much prefers the -7A for comfort.

Having said that...to the original poster...you should build what *you* want to build. Don't listen to anyone else unless they're giving you empirical data.
 
waynestir1 said:
So I called my CFI up, and he said he would be comfortable doing training in it if I had done a little bit of the dual in a rental that was side by side. But in order for it to qualify legally for dual, it needs to have full controls in the back as well. Which means brakes, stick, and throttle. Is this possible in the RV-8?
Click to expand...

Wayne,
I've seen rear brake installations on RV8s before. Gert Van Der Sanden fabricated his own 2 lever rear controls. The web link I originally provided is now dead. I can supply photos and explanations of Gert's mod to anyone who requests it via email. Click on my user name to access my email address.

Another alternative would be to use the vernier/cable style controls used on the side by side RVs to fabricate 2 or 3 controls for the rear. These could be mounted vertically on the F-806 bulkhead.
Charlie Kuss
 
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-8

Ironflight said:
Boy Mannan - you better hope Louise doesn't see this!!:rolleyes::p:D

There are some rare spouses out there that truly love flying. I think it is pretty uncommon for people to find a mate who enjoys aviation to the extent that both partners have their own planes - I have one of those rare gems!


Paul
Click to expand...

Paul:

Note, I added at the bottom of my post that "there some rare gems out there". You are so lucky!
 
Jamie said:
Well, that's clearly a matter of opinion. :)

Passenger visibility forward in the -8, well, flat out sucks as it does with most tandem airplanes. Comfort factor...well...sucks because your feet are planted in position the entire time. In other words, you can't move your legs on long cross countries. In the SBS models, the passenger is free to cross their legs, more them forward and backward, etc.

My wife has flown as a passenger in an -8 and quite a bit in my -7A. She much prefers the -7A for comfort.

Having said that...to the original poster...you should build what *you* want to build. Don't listen to anyone else unless they're giving you empirical data.
Click to expand...

Jamie--The passenger's forward view is great from the back of my 8 because the passenger gets to look at me! ;):D:rolleyes:.

Jamie has it right of course--we each have to build what really tugs on our heart strings.

Guy
 
It always amazes me that people seem to focus on looking at the back of someones head, when they can turn their head slightly in either direction and have an incredible view.

No matter how great of a view you think you have in a side by side, half the time you are banking the plane or changing course to show the person beside you something out the window opposite them.

If people insist on complaining about the back of your head when they have a great view out both sides of the plane, well--you can't fix stupid:rolleyes:
 
lancef53 said:
If people insist on complaining about the back of your head when they have a great view out both sides of the plane, well--you can't fix stupid:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It's kind of like driving down a scenic country road, with a large truck in front of you. But you can still see out the sides! :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
L.Adamson said:
It's kind of like driving down a scenic country road, with a large truck in front of you. But you can still see out the sides! :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...

Or kind of like sitting in coach on an airliner with a wall on one side and somebodies elbow in the other. Unlike the cockpit, where you have a window seat on both sides..
 
First the -9A, then the -8

If you really put IFR training in your own plane at the top of the list, build the -9A. Trying to find a good instructor and, even more difficult, an examiner to train and test you in an -8 will make a difficult process even more challenging. I had difficulty identifying an examiner that would do mine in the -6.

If facilitating your GF's interest in flying is high on the list, build the -9A. I have over 1000 hours (over 500 in the RV-6) and I'm still not willing to take on Paul's -8. (That's not solely because of lack of confidence in mastering an -8, though.)

I suggest that you do NOT listen to -8 pilots (or even worse, -8 builders) unless they have flown scores of hours in the back of an -8. They know not of what they speak. While I know there are some (non-pilot, as far as I've seen) spouses who truly prefer the back of the -8, especially if there husband is a plus-size, I suspect that more claim they like the tandem just to not hurt their husband's feelings. Personally, I've spent the scores of hours back there and absolutely, without any reservation, prefer the side-by-side.

I certainly understand that few families have the luxury of owning two planes, but how about finishing the -9A, doing the IFR ticket in it and, maybe, get your GF started on RV flying in it. Then, once you have reached those goals, consider trading-in on a RV-8. There are lots of habitual offenders out there and I've got to believe that one can come closer to building the plane on their dreams on a second project....correcting all the slight imperfections on the first.

MTC (but at least spoke after many hours of experience in the back of an -8).
 
With all joking aside, Louise is absolutely right. If an instrument ticket is very important and the possibility of new pilot flight instuction is important, then the 9A is the ticket. When I built my 6A, I had a low time partner who's son was also learning to fly, and my son was 14 and I thought he would learn to fly. Thats why I went with the "A" model. I had a few hundred hrs. in tail draggers(including T6's and a B17) and didn't feel I had to "prove" anything by having a tail dragger RV anymore. I loved flying my 6A, ground visability in an A model is so much better. 2 reasons I sold the 6A, one, I got into formation, and two, son hasn't gotten bit by the flying bug yet(although there's hope for the daughter).:D Also partner decided to build his own plane(RV9).
Bottom line is, 9A is going to be a better instrument platform for a new instrument pilot.
So, finish the 9A, get inst. ticket, if girlfriend helps build plane, let her get ticket. If girlfriend gets ticket and her behind is still the same size, then marry her. Then sell 9A and build an RV8. When RV8 is finished start family.;)
 
Gee Louise, you could be describing exactly where Tanya and I are at. I totally agree. We absolutely love the -9A. One more IFR training flight and I'll schedule my instrument practical in it. Tanya is enjoying flying it solo and I expect that we'll always fly it when we're both flying X/C. However, the -8 is well underway although a little slower due to economics. It won't be too many years before the -8 is done and will share the hangar with the -9A.
 
8 vs. 9

There is no comparison. The 8 will outperform and out value the 9. Lots of instrument 8's around, should not be an issue. As for the girl, your decision however if that is what forces you to select the 9, you have started down a path you may regret on many fronts in the future.

Goos Luck
 
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