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David Paule

Well Known Member
I'd like to set up a survival kit system where I keep a basic kit in the plane all the time, and then add a supplemental kit for each passenger.

I recognize that winter flying demands a different set of things than more moderate temperatures and that I should probably have a winter add-on kit for each person, too.

What would you put in the basic kit and in the supplemental kits? We should assume remote and rugged locations, but not Alaska. Definitely deserts, though.

Thanks very much!

Dave
 
David Paule said:
I'd like to set up a survival kit system where I keep a basic kit in the plane all the time, and then add a supplemental kit for each passenger.

I recognize that winter flying demands a different set of things than more moderate temperatures and that I should probably have a winter add-on kit for each person, too.

What would you put in the basic kit and in the supplemental kits? We should assume remote and rugged locations, but not Alaska. Definitely deserts, though.

Thanks very much!

Dave
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#1 item - water...
 
assuming you survive the crash and have no major injuries.
You will have two priorities, Getting found and survival until you get found.
Getting found:
1. Cell phone
2. ELT 406
3. "spot" type device
4. transceiver

Survival (in order of what will kill you first):
1. Staying warm and dry
a. insulation
b. rain protection
c. shelter
d. fire (also useful for getting found)
2. Water
a. bottled water
b. purification
1.filter
2. iodine
3. boil
3. Food
a. will make you feel better, most of us will not die of starvation for a long time

just some thoughts!!
 
A few years back, Doug had a thread going about a survival vest he had put together.

As I recall, he also had a link to various safety thoughts-------but it seems to have been removed.

Maybe someone out there will have a link to this????

Doug???
 
Do a web search on airplane survival kits. There are a bunch out there and guys who specialize in putting them together. Each has a slightly different approach to survival. I researched this heavily before making my cross country flight in 2014. What I ended up with (and this is not for everyone) is a first aid kit and a personal locating beacon attached to my body at all times.

You could go back and forth about carrying 4 dozen different articles. With a PLB, you will be found relatively quickly if the weather is okay for rescue and you survive. You can go three days without water and more than a week without food.

Now, if you are flying is Alaska, then everything changes. I would research the different options and pick what makes you comfortable.
 
g zero said:
Crash in the south , better have bug spray !!
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A head mosquito net is required in either AK or Canada, maybe both.

As for water, if you fly in the Southeast, I wouldn't bother bringing more than a bottle or two because there is water almost everywhere. Especially in the mountains.

I would bring some type of fires starter. As for a cell phone, if you land out in the middle of no where or down in a valley, they probably won't do you any good.
 
comfortcat said:
Handheld transceiver
Handhelp GPS
7 hours of batteries.

CC
:eek:
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Add a Boy Scout compass to your list.

Using a GPS is one of those things that takes discipline. Use the GPS to figure out where you are and which way you should walk. Then turn it off. Repeat this every 30 minutes or so.

Use your compass to keep you on track, not the GPS.

Also, using an AirGizmo to mount a good portable GPS in your panel works out very well. It can do double duty as a nav source when your EFIS goes dark and it will be charged should you have to walk out. Make sure you and your passengers know how to flip it to ground mode.

Spend some money on a survival class and at least 30 minutes a day working out. Being in good physical condition is probably the best thing you can do to save yourself. (Good advice, now I need to follow it!)

Although it is best to stay with your plane, pack all this stuff in a small backpack AKA a day pack, so it is easy to take with you, should you need to hike out.
 
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Survival kit

I'm not flying the RV yet but do live in the mountains. Each car has a kit and it stays in the car wherever we go. Water we take when we leave because bottles will freeze and break open.
Kits contain...
1. Several of those plastic solar survival blankets. They're cheap and serve as a blanket or shelter.
2. First aid kit.
3. Warm clothes and blankets. As weight in an airplane is an issue, I would pack a set of silk thermals. They weigh nothing and are very warm.
4. Non-perishable high energy food bars.
5. Survival gear to signal and stay warm. Fire starter type stuff.

Note. If I were packing a kit for my RV, it would also have a filter straw. Outfitter stores carry them. Basically they are a straw with a filter. Local climbers use them.
 
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Since some humor shined in, I'd take a comb. (Vern in the movie "Stand by Me."):D

Naturally and as already mentioned, weight is the deciding factor. Businesses that cater to hiking and camping like REI also consider weight in the products they offer. Once a good list of survival gear is compiled, I'd refine each item by weight and if practible. Every ounce counts.

Regardless of what you choose to include in your go-to bag, there is always the thought- "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
 
Infidel said:
Regardless of what you choose to include in your go-to bag, there is always the thought- "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
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Good statement, but the real problem is taking one thing and that requires leaving something else out. You can't take it all so each item needs to be considered very carefully. How much would you pay for a lighter camp axe that allowed you to have extra blanket or gloves?
 
CAP is supposed to be about safety right? Nomex, helmets, etc. I annualled a CAP 182 once and after emptying the airplane I had this huge pile of gear. Axes, MRE's, flares and even O2 generators. I got curious and weighed it all. 220 lbs of gear in a skylane that routinely carried four people in the mountains. Safety first!
 
Survival

A little reality check: a sample of all time record low temperatures-
AZ -40F
CA -45
CO -61
MN -60
MT -70
NY -52
If you do not have good high quality cold weather clothing, artic sleeping bags, and some type of shelter, you will not live long enough to need food or liquids.
On Jan 31 it was right at the freezing mark in Lake Havasu City, snow changing to rain, wind gusts to 40 plus. 800' elevation. Survival time without proper clothing and shelter very short.
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
but the real problem is taking one thing and that requires leaving something else out. You can't take it all so each item needs to be considered very carefully.
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Very well said Rocky. If I pack every item people suggested for my AK trip I would compromise safety. The proof is below.




aerhed said:
CAP is supposed to be about safety right? Nomex, helmets, etc. I annualled a CAP 182 once and after emptying the airplane I had this huge pile of gear. Axes, MRE's, flares and even O2 generators. I got curious and weighed it all. 220 lbs of gear in a skylane that routinely carried four people in the mountains. Safety first!
Click to expand...
 
The best thing to put in your arsenal for survival is knowledge and the will to survive. Read up on survival tactics and be willing to think outside the box. Practice being a minimalist. You'd be suprised how much can be done with so little.

i.e: If your RV doesn't burn up in the crash landing, you'll have shelter, battery and/or fuel for fire, etc., and a seat cushion for a pillow.:cool:
 
Have a gander at the Survival Vest thread for some more ideas.

You can generally survive 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food, so these aren't absolute priorities for my survival kit. IF I am flying in a remote area, I'll carry extra water as a matter of course, but for immediate survival, it isn't necessary.

As part of the RAAF Combat Survival course we had to do up our own personal survival kits, and at present, mine contains the following:

A flat signal mirror, taped to the underside of the lid. A shiny piece of polished steel/aluminium is more than sufficient.
3 unlubricated condoms. These will hold around 3L of water when placed inside one of your socks.
A tiny ziplock bag of small fishing hooks
A 2" diameter, reel of fishing line & hook
Small bottle of Puritabs (water purification tablets)
Small box of matches
A matchless fire-starting kit
1/2 dozen safety-pins
Small ziplock bag of sinkers & swivels
Wire saw (two keyrings either end, and diamond wire in between)
Razor blade
2" swatch of DPCU fabric
Small cardboard with various green cotton wound on it, and needles
Sharpening stone
Space-blanket

Bear in mind this kit was fitted out for the last exercise we did - coastal survival and doesn't contain the Leatherman, Mini-maglite that I carried on my person, or the magnesium firestarter that died after saltwater immersion. It's packed into a tin that's about an 1x2x6 inches.

For the kind of flying I'd be doing in Australia, the fishing tackle could probably be dropped freeing up a significant amount of space. To replace this I'd probably include a laser pointer and a few button-batteries and maybe a tampon or two to plug severe bleeding, maybe a roll of electricians tape, red or yellow if possible. Maybe even a small pack of lifesavers or something for that morale-boost you need right after realising you're going to have to drive another million rivets...:D
 
Infidel said:
The best thing to put in your arsenal for survival is knowledge and the will to survive. Read up on survival tactics and be willing to think outside the box. Practice being a minimalist. You'd be suprised how much can be done with so little.

i.e: If your RV doesn't burn up in the crash landing, you'll have shelter, battery and/or fuel for fire, etc., and a seat cushion for a pillow.:cool:
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Exactly. Knowledge is the key. Good point. On the comfort point, Im glad I went for the deluxe foam from Abby for my seats in case it ever comes up!
 
The GPS is not for moving, it was for telling folks where I was.

CC
N941WR said:
Add a Boy Scout compass to your list.

Using a GPS is one of those things that takes discipline. Use the GPS to figure out where you are and which way you should walk. Then turn it off. Repeat this every 30 minutes or so.
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Consider this. If you are landing somewhere so remote that you are worried about survival, then the likelihood of you getting out of the crash without severe injuries is a **** shoot at best. If you do survive, you will likely have serious injuries and cuts. A very thorough first aid kit is essential, even if you are "lost" for a short period of time. It doesn't take much to bleed to death. Duct tape, gauze, special bandages, and some ointments should be your first priority.

Another thing to consider. If your safety equipment is not attached to your body, you may not have access to it once you find the ground. The airplane could be on fire or in the trees, thrown from the aircraft, etc. If you are serious, get a safety vest and pack the pockets with your essential gear. For me, this includes things to keep me from becoming hypothermic like a space blanket, fire starter, etc., and a signaling mirror. A Powerbar or two would be a plus just in case.

I still claim that a 406 Mhz PLB will get you found quickly. As long as you can reach it and you are capable of deploying it, help will show up. Looking for water, fishing for food, and skinning a moose are really not essential IMO. YMMV.

Stop the bleeding......keep warm......deploy beacon.......prepare to signal (mirror,fire).......stay calm, stay put, and wait
 
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Ex-RAF survival instructor........

Protection
Location
Water
Food

So, lightweight tent, maybe. Certainly fire-lighting stuff.

Then ELT for sure. They should be able to find you with that. DO NOT WALK OUT. I've seen a couple of posts advocating that. Unless you are very close to civilization and absolutely sure where it lies, stay put.

Bottled water. A few litres will see you through several days.

Food. Forget it. You can survive 3 weeks without it. If you are not found by then then you are not going to be.
 
Some things are pretty simple to pack as elements of a survival kit. Most of them perform dual duty. I was given for Christmas a skeletonized crash axe. Great for getting out of the overturned aircraft, then also great for hacking up branches etc to make splints, fire, support for shelter, etc. Weighs just a bit over one pound.

Another item that really makes sense is a small poly tarp. A few years ago at OSH there was a vendor there selling survival kits, and in their kit they included a blue tarp. Of course I had to ask, why blue? It was quite a learning experience to see the photos they had taken of the same location where they had tried "blaze orange", "safety green", red, yellow (and one other colour I can't remember) material. The plain-Jane blue tarp was by FAR the easiest to see from the air.

One item most folks forget is a whistle. Get one without a "pea" inside (they freeze in place with the moisture from your breath). A whistle will help ground searchers get that last half mile to your location. Even when injured you can make enough wind to send out a deafening blast on a whistle - far more effective than shouting.

As mentioned by a previous poster, duct tape is likely one of the very best items to carry in our aircraft, not just for survival but also for every kind of repair one can think of. I carry mine wrapped around the shaft of a plastic pen, thus reducing the overall size of the roll of tape - 10 feet of good duct tape makes a roll about 1.5" in diameter when wrapped around a pen.

And then there's the "biggie"... pain killers for "after the crash". My dad always had a bottle of "medicinal" rum in our camping first aid kit. He's now 81 and we recently decided to open that bottle one evening as we talked over our memories of all those fantastic trips we had taken over the last half century. That was a very well-traveled bottle of rum indeed!
 
Just want to thank every one who contributed.

The first thing I did was order a 406 PLB and a medical kit that with a few additions may be useful for the sorts of injuries I think likely to encounter in a crash. Also on the list are some fishing vests. I've already been carrying a small survival kit in a quart ziplock bag and its contents will go in the vest.

One thing I carry in the ziplock bag might be worth considering - a small monocular. I've found it handy in the past. The other things are pretty routine.

When I was sorting through the things in my old airplane survival kit, I found a pound jar of Planter's peanuts that I'd dated April 2008. What the heck, I thought, and opened it up. The peanuts were fine. I've learned that it's the wrong sort of food for a survival kit so I won't be replacing it. But modern packaging is impressive.

Thanks again,
Dave
 
PLB's

In my previous job I investigated an incident where one of our employees rolled his car in a remote area. He activated his 406 PLB and it remained active for 4 hours before being deactivated. However the PLB was NOT detected by any satellites and no alarm was raised by the local rescue coordination centre.

The investigation included a detailed analysis of the satellite system at the time of the PLB activation to determine why it was not detected. What that analysis revealed came as a bit of a surprise. Long story short, he was using a non-gps PLB, sometimes these beacons are not visible to the geostationary satellites in high orbit and then rely on a polar orbiting satellite in a low orbit to pass overhead before being detected. In some cases this can take up to 9 hours.

And even then, the satellite will give the RCC two positions that are several thousand km's apart and they will have to do some investigation to determine which of the two positions they should search at.

If you have a non-gps PLB check the fine print, it may (should?) contain a warning that detection can take up to 15 hours.

On the other hand a gps-equipped PLB works differently and should be reliably detected anywhere in the world within 30 minutes.

Here in Australia at least, many 406 PLB's come in two versions, with and without gps. If you are buying a PLB my recommendation is to spend the extra $50 for the gps version. It could reduce your rescue time by up to half a day.
 
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Malndi said:
I my previous job I investigated an incident where one of our employees rolled his car in a remote area. He activated his 406 PLB and it remained active for 4 hours before being deactivated. However the PLB was NOT detected by any satellites and no alarm was raised by the local rescue coordination centre.

The investigation included a detailed analysis of the satellite system at the time of the PLB activation to determine why it was not detected. What that analysis revealed came as a bit of a surprise. Long story short, he was using a non-gps PLB, sometimes these beacons are not visible to the geostationary satellites in high orbit and then rely on a polar orbiting satellite in a low orbit to pass overhead before being detected. In some cases this can take up to 9 hours.

And even then, the satellite will give the RCC two positions that are several thousand km's apart and they will have to do some investigation to determine which of the two positions they should search at.

If you have a non-gps PLB check the fine print, it may (should?) contain a warning that detection can take up to 15 hours.

On the other hand a gps-equipped PLB works differently and should be reliably detected anywhere in the world within 30 minutes.

Here in Australia at least, many 406 PLB's come in two versions, with and without gps. If you are buying a PLB my recommendation is to spend the extra $50 for the gps version. It could reduce your rescue time by up to half a day.
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And is the exact same reason that any ELT upgrade to your plane should use a GPS enabled 406 unit. Add those extra two wires to your GPS panel unit.
 
Most, if not all, 406 devices come with a manufacturer's warning to NOT TURN IT OFF after activation. There's a reason for this, as noted above. BTW, the limitation on geostationary satellite reception of 406 signals is not related to whether the beacon contains a GPS or has access to GPS coordinates - it's purely an effect of radio signal propagation. Sometimes it takes several hours to get position resolution from the orbiting satellites. The last update I had from COSPASS-SARSAT was that our worst-case in North America was between 8 & 9 hours to get position resolution as a product of multiple satellite passes.

DON'T TURN YOUR 406 DEVICE OFF - once it's activated... LEAVE IT ON.
 
Survival medicine

I feel that one thing people grossly over estimate or even to fail to consider is how clearly they will be thinking after a crash landing. I wouldn't count on being able to clearly rationalize your predicament as you may be suffering from shock, blood loss, and injuries such as a concussion. This time of year hypothermia can become a very serious issue.

There is a series of short youtube videos that are pretty good at describing medical issues in the wild and the problem with space blankets:

https://www.youtube.com/user/MedWildVideos

This COPA video gives some more insight on how to prepare:

http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live?watch={8841D3F4-19B9-4BA8-938F-E02B8987C3B8}
 
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