[eatonair]

This may be covered in different thread but I couldn't find anything. Have an RV6 with IO-320 and installed Surefly Sim4p about three years ago thinking it would improve reliability (even though I've never had a magneto failure). Suddenly had left mag (Surefly) problems at 209 hours. Fortunately it occurred at my home airport and landed without issue.

Experienced slight engine roughness after takeoff with occasional misfire. Returned to airfield and by that time the mag check revealed a much worse left mag. Engine would barely run. Did all the required troubleshooting, cleaned plugs, leads, even cleaned fuel nozzles. Engine started once with p-Lead disconnected but very rough on left mag and now refuses to start at all.

Removed the SIM4p for repair but from what I hear, I'm expecting to be told that I'll have to purchase a new one now that the warranty is expired. Will ship it out tomorrow and wait to see what happens. My confidence in the Surefly has been shattered and I'm seriously considering putting the original Slick back in it's place. Very Disappointed to say the least.

Wondering if anyone has had similar experience and what has Surefly customer support provided? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 

[lr172]

This may be covered in different thread but I couldn't find anything. Have an RV6 with IO-320 and installed Surefly Sim4p about three years ago thinking it would improve reliability (even though I've never had a magneto failure). Suddenly had left mag (Surefly) problems at 209 hours. Fortunately it occurred at my home airport and landed without issue.

Experienced slight engine roughness after takeoff with occasional misfire. Returned to airfield and by that time the mag check revealed a much worse left mag. Engine would barely run. Did all the required troubleshooting, cleaned plugs, leads, even cleaned fuel nozzles. Engine started once with p-Lead disconnected but very rough on left mag and now refuses to start at all.

Removed the SIM4p for repair but from what I hear, I'm expecting to be told that I'll have to purchase a new one now that the warranty is expired. Will ship it out tomorrow and wait to see what happens. My confidence in the Surefly has been shattered and I'm seriously considering putting the original Slick back in it's place. Very Disappointed to say the least.

Wondering if anyone has had similar experience and what has Surefly customer support provided? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Please post the details about how they deal with this issue. We don't hear much about surefly issues here, at least not that I have seen. In fairness, no product has a 100% reliability rate. Anxious to hear how they treat repair. If the answer is "buy another one," that is a red flag.

 

[lr172]

Experienced slight engine roughness after takeoff with occasional misfire.

This is a bit odd. If the surefly went offline, the engine should run just fine with no misfires. You may notice the slight change in engine sound of running on 4 plugs and small power loss, but no misfire. Possible the surefly lost TDC and fired early, creating the issues, but also worth some time to be sure your Rt mag is performing at 100%.

 

[eatonair]

This is a bit odd. If the surefly went offline, the engine should run just fine with no misfires. You may notice the slight change in engine sound of running on 4 plugs and small power loss, but no misfire. Possible the surefly lost TDC and fired early, creating the issues, but also worth some time to be sure your Rt mag is performing at 100%.

I thought so too. But engine runs fine on right Slick mag. Unfortunately no impulse coupling on right mag. Rely entirely on Surefly for starting.
I have since spoken to Matt at Surefly to arrange for bench check at $200 but he suggested that because of the low time, he might adjust that.
My model is a Revision B which they apparently no longer repair so I'll wait to see what the diagnosis is.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

What ignition harness are you using? I had similar symptoms, but the problem was the harness, not the surefly. It really does need a good quality harness. I got by with a cheaper ACS harness for years, but upgrading to a new Champion harness fixed the issue.

 

[Webb]

I had a Surefly go tango uniform on my Bonanza. Wasn’t the harness because that was a new replacement when the mag was installed. Customer service was excellent. I checked what they asked me to do. They sent me a replacement and I returned the box with my mag in it. Easy peasy.

The SF mag will not work without power. I hate to ask the obvious but was it getting power or could it have been a loose or corroded connection?

 

[eatonair]

What ignition harness are you using? I had similar symptoms, but the problem was the harness, not the surefly. It really does need a good quality harness. I got by with a cheaper ACS harness for years, but upgrading to a new Champion harness fixed the issue.

Using the champion harness. The system has been great for years then overnight this. Will find out when Surefly does the diagnosis.

 

[eatonair]

I had a Surefly go tango uniform on my Bonanza. Wasn’t the harness because that was a new replacement when the mag was installed. Customer service was excellent. I checked what they asked me to do. They sent me a replacement and I returned the box with my mag in it. Easy peasy.

The SF mag will not work without power. I hate to ask the obvious but was it getting power or could it have been a loose or corroded connection?

It was definitely getting power. Fuse was fine. Even still blinking the correct DIN code. Probably going to reinstall the Slick mag while I await the findings from Surefly.

 

[skylor]

This may be covered in different thread but I couldn't find anything. Have an RV6 with IO-320 and installed Surefly Sim4p about three years ago thinking it would improve reliability (even though I've never had a magneto failure). Suddenly had left mag (Surefly) problems at 209 hours. Fortunately it occurred at my home airport and landed without issue.

Experienced slight engine roughness after takeoff with occasional misfire. Returned to airfield and by that time the mag check revealed a much worse left mag. Engine would barely run. Did all the required troubleshooting, cleaned plugs, leads, even cleaned fuel nozzles. Engine started once with p-Lead disconnected but very rough on left mag and now refuses to start at all.

Removed the SIM4p for repair but from what I hear, I'm expecting to be told that I'll have to purchase a new one now that the warranty is expired. Will ship it out tomorrow and wait to see what happens. My confidence in the Surefly has been shattered and I'm seriously considering putting the original Slick back in it's place. Very Disappointed to say the least.

Wondering if anyone has had similar experience and what has Surefly customer support provided? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

What did the EGT's do on your engine monitor while the engine was misfiring? Were there indications of misfire on all cylinders or was it isolated to a single cylinder?

Skylor

 

[Dugaru]

It was definitely getting power. Fuse was fine. Even still blinking the correct DIN code. Probably going to reinstall the Slick mag while I await the findings from Surefly.

I’m developing a new appreciation for the lowly magneto.

 

[lr172]

I thought so too. But engine runs fine on right Slick mag. Unfortunately no impulse coupling on right mag. Rely entirely on Surefly for starting.
I have since spoken to Matt at Surefly to arrange for bench check at $200 but he suggested that because of the low time, he might adjust that.
My model is a Revision B which they apparently no longer repair so I'll wait to see what the diagnosis is.

Certainly good to hear they are willing to work on it and at a fair price.

 

[eatonair]

Certainly good to hear they are willing to work on it and at a fair price.

Well that remains to be seen. I’ll be sure to share my findings. But so far Matt seems to be fairly sympathetic.

 

[eatonair]

What did the EGT's do on your engine monitor while the engine was misfiring? Were there indications of misfire on all cylinders or was it isolated to a single cylinder?

Skylor

After takeoff it seemed like a very isolated misfire. Didn’t notice an immediate change in egt’s . I’m using the GRT EIS , so I had to switch over to the EGT page while troubleshooting and navigating. Decided to return to the airport as a precaution and I’m glad I did. By the time I got on the ground , the Surefly was barely firing at all. I hate to say it but I think the Slick mag saved my bacon.

 

[Dugaru]

I hate to say it but I think the Slick mag saved my bacon.

I’m a firm believer in the one magneto/one EI combo. Seems like the best of both worlds to me.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

After takeoff it seemed like a very isolated misfire. Didn’t notice an immediate change in egt’s . I’m using the GRT EIS , so I had to switch over to the EGT page while troubleshooting and navigating. Decided to return to the airport as a precaution and I’m glad I did. By the time I got on the ground , the Surefly was barely firing at all. I hate to say it but I think the Slick mag saved my bacon.

Whatever ignition you had on the right side would have saved your bacon....that's why we have two ignitions.

I also have a SureFly on the left and a non-impulse Slick on the right. I'm definitely interested in how your saga is resolved but one failure report isn't going to tempt me to abandon the SureFly.

 

[eatonair]

Whatever ignition you had on the right side would have saved your bacon....that's why we have two ignitions.

I also have a SureFly on the left and a non-impulse Slick on the right. I'm definitely interested in how your saga is resolved but one failure report isn't going to tempt me to abandon the SureFly.

I like your optimism! Will definitely post the results.

 

[Scott Hersha]

Whatever ignition you had on the right side would have saved your bacon....that's why we have two ignitions.

I also have a SureFly on the left and a non-impulse Slick on the right. I'm definitely interested in how your saga is resolved but one failure report isn't going to tempt me to abandon the SureFly.

Me too……….

 

[bjdecker]

From a redundancy point of view, and aiming for that 100% dispatch rate, you should consider adding an impulse coupling to the non-EI mag. Don't forget to rewire the ignition key-switch (remove the jumper) or change switch-ology/procedures to enable/allow for ignition on BOTH sides instead of just the Left.

 

[mburch]

From a redundancy point of view, and aiming for that 100% dispatch rate, you should consider adding an impulse coupling to the non-EI mag. Don't forget to rewire the ignition key-switch (remove the jumper) or change switch-ology/procedures to enable/allow for ignition on BOTH sides instead of just the Left.

Or if it's easier for somebody's particular installation, I suppose you could just replace the right (non-impulse) mag with an EI, and change the ignition switch wiring as above.

SureFly advocates for replacing the left (impulse) mag if you're only going to install one:

SureFly recommends replacing the impulse coupled magneto. This is to reduce the possibility of impulse coupler mechanical failure and also to help the engine start better.

...which I guess makes sense as long as you assume the SureFly can never fail!

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

Or if it's easier for somebody's particular installation, I suppose you could just replace the right (non-impulse) mag with an EI, and change the ignition switch wiring as above.

SureFly advocates for replacing the left (impulse) mag if you're only going to install one:



...which I guess makes sense as long as you assume the SureFly can never fail!

From a redundancy point of view, and aiming for that 100% dispatch rate, you should consider adding an impulse coupling to the non-EI mag. Don't forget to rewire the ignition key-switch (remove the jumper) or change switch-ology/procedures to enable/allow for ignition on BOTH sides instead of just the Left.

I guess you have to decide which is more likely (as well as more destructive): a SureFly failure or an impulse coupling failure. Personally I'd rather have a SureFly failure than have an impulse coupler destroy itself and possibly my engine. And as others have stated, SureFly failures seem exceedingly rare.

Chris

 

[Sam Buchanan]

I guess you have to decide which is more likely (as well as more destructive): a SureFly failure or an impulse coupling failure. Personally I'd rather have a SureFly failure than have an impulse coupler destroy itself and possibly my engine. And as other's have stated, SureFly failures seem exceedingly rare.

Chris

That is precisely why the impulse mag on my O-320 was replaced with the SureFly. The left mag was coming up on the service interval and that was all the incentive I needed to never again have to worry about a catastrophic impulse failure.

 

[bjdecker]

That is precisely why the impulse mag on my O-320 was replaced with the SureFly. The left mag was coming up on the service interval and that was all the incentive I needed to never again have to worry about a catastrophic impulse failure.

Just thinking about all the magneto failures I've experienced, the impulse coupling wasn't on the Pareto. Come to think of it, the 500 hour mandatory service on the mags applies to both types.

But, yes, generally speaking, in order to improve reliability one should reduce/eliminate/avoid mechanical complexity where ever possible.

 

[akschu]

Or if it's easier for somebody's particular installation, I suppose you could just replace the right (non-impulse) mag with an EI, and change the ignition switch wiring as above.

SureFly advocates for replacing the left (impulse) mag if you're only going to install one:



...which I guess makes sense as long as you assume the SureFly can never fail!

Another reason could be that they figure the hotter spark may light excessively rich mixtures that a mag won't touch, thus better starting on flooded IO engines.

Who knows, but it does appear that mags are pretty dang reliable when subjected to so much heat and vibration.

 

[N49ex]

Another reason could be that they figure the hotter spark may light excessively rich mixtures that a mag won't touch, thus better starting on flooded IO engines.

Who knows, but it does appear that mags are pretty dang reliable when subjected to so much heat and vibration.

I sure don't feel quite so optimistic about mags. Had one Slick well short of 500 hours fail in flight with an open secondary on the auto transformer/coil and had the two new ones on my new engine only make about 350 hours before needing to be overhauled, due to what apparently is recent poorer quality of parts (specifically the cam follower plastic sourced from China). That convinced me to go left side SureFly. My local airport maintenance facility is an authorized magneto repair/overhaul/re-build shop and they see failed mags all the time in addition to the 500 hour mandatory service.

 

[eatonair]

Whatever ignition you had on the right side would have saved your bacon....that's why we have two ignitions.

I also have a SureFly on the left and a non-impulse Slick on the right. I'm definitely interested in how your saga is resolved but one failure report isn't going to tempt me to abandon the SureFly.

From a redundancy point of view, and aiming for that 100% dispatch rate, you should consider adding an impulse coupling to the non-EI mag. Don't forget to rewire the ignition key-switch (remove the jumper) or change switch-ology/procedures to enable/allow for ignition on BOTH sides instead of just the Left.

I am considering just that. But if one mag is bad, I’m not going anyway. Another impulse coupling just adds to the risk. The ignition system is supposed to be simple and bulletproof.

 

[eatonair]

I sure don't feel quite so optimistic about mags. Had one Slick well short of 500 hours fail in flight with an open secondary on the auto transformer/coil and had the two new ones on my new engine only make about 350 hours before needing to be overhauled, due to what apparently is recent poorer quality of parts (specifically the cam follower plastic sourced from China). That convinced me to go left side SureFly. My local airport maintenance facility is an authorized magneto repair/overhaul/re-build shop and they see failed mags all the time in addition to the 500 hour mandatory service.

I feel your pain. I actually have the tooling to do 500 hr service on the Slick mags. Know them much better than the Surefly. I don’t skimp when it comes to performing all bulletins on Slick/Champion products. Having said that, I feel somewhat vulnerable not knowing the Surefly product.

 

[CFItom]

I had a mag to failure on my private pilot check ride when I was 17 years old in a C-150 I was under the hood doing instrument maneuvers. When I. Optics engine running rough. Thought it might have been carb ice. Turned on carb heat and it smoothed out. Dexamilsr kind of looked at me strange. Then asked me to do the next maneuver. Again it ran rough and this time I pulled carb heat and left it on. The body language of the examiner indicated he didn’t know what or why I was doing that. Then the engine hiccuped a little and I told the examiner the engine was not running right. He told me to take off the hood and fly back to the airport. On the way back he said let’s try to see what is wrong. He asked to go from both to right mag. And immediately the engine quit. I quickly turned back to both and engine ran. The examiner then stated “well at least we know what the problem is!” By downwind I had to switch to left mag only as it was too rough on both. Landed. Had the mag to replaced and finished my check ride the next day.

The examiner had no clue the engine was not running right and at 17 years old under the pressure of pilot exam and under the hood I identified an issue. I think the examiner felt ai probably would make a good safe pilot. And I passed my check ride!

One of those days in your life that you don’t forget!

 

[akschu]

I sure don't feel quite so optimistic about mags. Had one Slick well short of 500 hours fail in flight with an open secondary on the auto transformer/coil and had the two new ones on my new engine only make about 350 hours before needing to be overhauled, due to what apparently is recent poorer quality of parts (specifically the cam follower plastic sourced from China). That convinced me to go left side SureFly. My local airport maintenance facility is an authorized magneto repair/overhaul/re-build shop and they see failed mags all the time in addition to the 500 hour mandatory service.

That's fair... I just pulled mags off of my 170 after 600 hours.... they were fine.... But you have more data points than me.

My new build doesn't have mags, CPI-2. I wanted EI, just not EI with electronics bolted to a hot vibrating thing. Having a dedicated backup battery is no big deal.

 

[akschu]

I had a mag to failure on my private pilot check ride when I was 17 years old in a C-150 I was under the hood doing instrument maneuvers. When I. Optics engine running rough. Thought it might have been carb ice. Turned on carb heat and it smoothed out. Dexamilsr kind of looked at me strange. Then asked me to do the next maneuver. Again it ran rough and this time I pulled carb heat and left it on. The body language of the examiner indicated he didn’t know what or why I was doing that. Then the engine hiccuped a little and I told the examiner the engine was not running right. He told me to take off the hood and fly back to the airport. On the way back he said let’s try to see what is wrong. He asked to go from both to right mag. And immediately the engine quit. I quickly turned back to both and engine ran. The examiner then stated “well at least we know what the problem is!” By downwind I had to switch to left mag only as it was too rough on both. Landed. Had the mag to replaced and finished my check ride the next day.

The examiner had no clue the engine was not running right and at 17 years old under the pressure of pilot exam and under the hood I identified an issue. I think the examiner felt ai probably would make a good safe pilot. And I passed my check ride!

One of those days in your life that you don’t forget!

cool story.... when I had my check ride my DME had skin cancer on his dome and had some skin moved from his back side to his top side.... he wouldn't wear a headset. Of course it was crazy busy on the first lovely day at Merrill so there were a LOT of airplanes. I'm talking to the tower, he is just riding along. I ask for a deviation and ship creek departure, no good, get to cross the drink at 700.

So I'm under the hood then he asks for a minimum speed turn, no problem, then he asks me to fly to the Big Lake VOR, but my VOR doesn't work... so I open the VOR page on my 495 and then take my headset off and yell, that one doesn't agree with that one, we're going to go with this one pointing to the 495. We fly to the VOR and when the page read zero miles I said we are over the VOR, then he said fly us out on the 180 radial... I've never heard those words before... VOR was broke... So I try to figure out where I'm at in my head flying the airplane under the hood, not wanting to cheat and use the map. Then I took my headset off again and said, "That's the dumbest crap ever, I'm going to fly towards the VOR pointing at the heading on the 495 then turn 180"

He says, let's head back, okay, so I have to talk to the tower, deal with the air force base, cross the drink, while yelling at him explaining what I'm doing because he can't hear the radio, then he asks me to do a touch n go, then another, then land.

I figured I failed, no S turns, no turns about a point, but he passed me. Talking to my instructor he figures that the guy saw me solve a navigational problem under the hood and fly the airplane well and that's all he needed...... or he didn't care....

That's Alaska for you.....