apkp777

apkp777

Well Known Member
Okay, I found a really good deal on an engine. low to mid-time for $8k. Needs nothing. Here's the problem. The engine was salvaged from a crash which resulted in the fatality of the pilot. (fuel exhaustion, impacted some trees on approach)

I never have been particularly superstitious, but suddenly I am feeling just a little.

If I purchase this thing, am I going to be haunted or what? I don't want any uninvited passengers on a long night flight.
 
Try looking at the other side of the coin.

Maybe the late pilot can ride along with you and help you prevent what happened to him.
 
Mel said:
Maybe the late pilot can ride along with you and help you prevent what happened to him.
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That's what I figured. Could be a good thing...

Just one problem though. Apparently ghost's have some kind of mass, as they can make floors creak, which one can actually feel. Would we have to figure one in for weight and balance? :)

L.Adamson ---RV6A
 
L.Adamson said:
Just one problem though. Apparently ghost's have some kind of mass, as they can make floors creak, which one can actually feel. Would we have to figure one in for weight and balance? :)
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Naw, That's just a movie thing!
Real ghosts don't have mass, unless, they're Catholic of course!
 
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Mel said:
Maybe the late pilot can ride along with you and help you prevent what happened to him.
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The song 'Riding with Private Malone' comes to mind.

"My name is Private Andrew Malone
If you're reading this, then I didn't make it home
But for every dream that shattered, another one comes true
This car was once a dream of mine, now it belongs to you
And though you may take her and make her your own
You'll always be riding with Private Malone."
 
When you say "needs nothing," are you certain that the prop was not impacted in the crash?

It seems very unlikely that a crash could occur that kills the pilot but does not result in a prop strike (even if the engine is not turning, a prop strike could bend the flange).
 
I could test it out for you, fly it for a couple hundred hours and let you know if anything "feels" wrong :D
 
breister said:
It seems very unlikely that a crash could occur that kills the pilot but does not result in a prop strike (even if the engine is not turning, a prop strike could bend the flange).
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I share this concern. Although if it were a wood prop it might be fine. It shouldn't be too hard to put a dial on the flange and check how "true" it is though.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one that shares this fear. I have no plans of carrying crash experienced parts on the airplane. :D

It seems like I recall a story of a WWII bomber that missed its landing destination and ended up in the Egyption desert. The legend says that all parts recovered from that airplane went on to crash a second time. I just did a VERY QUICK google search to see if I could find it, but couldn't find it in the first couple of hits.

Phil
 
The aircraft you are talking about was a B-24 bomber named Lady Be Good, it crashed in the Libyan Desert April 4, 1943 and was not found until May of 1958, remains of five of the crew were found in 1960http://www.qmfound.com/lady_be_good_b-24_bomber_recovery.htm
Here is the link to the web site makes for interesting reading.
 
I saw some parts (prop and I believe an engine) from the LBG Tuesday at the Air Force Museum at WPAFB. They didn't appear haunted, but it was during the day. BTW, my wife's cousin, Cecilia Tallichet, supposedly owns salvage right to the LBG. She owns the Memphis Belle (movie version) and other great aircraft. If she ever gets the LBG out of Liberia, I would ride in it in a heartbeat. I am in the camp that would like to believe any "spirits" would be protective.

Bob Kelly
 
You guys were supposed to comfort my superstition, not aggravate it.

Yes the prop was damaged in the wreck. The NTSB report indicated that it was bend about 20 degrees and was consistent with a non-running impact. The wings appreared to each have hit a tree and were separated from the fuselage. The crank dialed out at a .002 which is perfect. I would do a "prop strike" inspection and replace the dowel pin at a minimum. The engine was run after the accident and ran fine. It comes with a descent guarantee on any parts that would need to be replaced, but not any Ghostbusters de-ghosting. I doubt the pilot was the "key master" but maybe he'll attract hot chicks (gate keepers) like Sigorni Weaver anyway.
 
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You WILL want to tear down the engine and have the necessary parts checked and yellow tagged,,,,,don't just trust things to a flange dial check. I just finished the reassembly of my IO-540, also a prop strike engine that dialed .010" at the flange. It cost me about $2000 to ship the parts out, have everything checked and the crankshaft flange straightened, and yellow tagged. The rods were also checked and rebushed. With the new rod bolts $$$$ (required) and a gasket kit it was about $2K. That was a true learning experience and was very enjoyable getting it all back together. I would not pay more than core price for it though. You really are just taking a chance that things will be OK, but if not, expect to pay BIG $$ for new parts. Even if the crank dials within limits for a repair, that does not mean that it can be repaired. That can't be determined until it is out of the engine and inspected by a certified repair facility. A new crank for the IO-540 is a little over $13K!!! You can find used parts though they are still a little pricey. I got my engine from Wentworth. Dawson is another source and they are trying to clear out their prop strike stock. Good luck in your decision.
 
Thanks David,

I too am looking at Wentworth for the engine. Yours dialed .010, which is pretty much toast. That really is a core engine. .002 is not bad at all. Still, I am looking at putting a top overhaul on it.
 
Actually .010" was very well within the limits for this particular engine for having the flange straightened, so I lucked out. I knew it dialed .010" before I bought it, but just prayed it would not have a crack in it. This crankshaft had just 100 hours of use since it was replaced for the Lycoming AD. The repair and yellow tag cost me around $300. The point I am trying to make is that even if the flange dials acceptable within limits, even .002", it could still be toast and you won't know until its out of the engine and inspected by a certified repair facility such as these folks: http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/ You must disassemble the engine and have certain parts inspected and yellow tagged per Lycoming for a prop strike, even .002". Don't take any chances and do it right. Wentworth won't gaurantee the crank for a propstrike engine, so get a price for a replacement just in case and pay accordingly.

apkp777 said:
Thanks David,

I too am looking at Wentworth for the engine. Yours dialed .010, which is pretty much toast. That really is a core engine. .002 is not bad at all. Still, I am looking at putting a top overhaul on it.
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Sorry Tony, I just read your post again and see you are an AP so you already know this stuff! You know what you will do but as for me, an uninspected propstrike engine is beyond my comfort level.:)
Ghost's don't scare me,,,,I have one that hangs out at my house that makes his presence known every once in a while and has so for 15 years now. His name is "William" so we are told. I would go for it! ;)

apkp777 said:
Thanks David,

I too am looking at Wentworth for the engine. Yours dialed .010, which is pretty much toast. That really is a core engine. .002 is not bad at all. Still, I am looking at putting a top overhaul on it.
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my 2 cents..........

i sold a runout 0-360 for $8,000. my price guaranted the case and crank were good. he gave me a %10 deposit to seal the deal. he then gave me %75 total before i shipped it. my engine had great history and with lots of other usable parts. after he verified crank and case were good he sent final %25. in your case i would change the %s in your favor a lot!!!!!!! nothing worst that being taken for some $ and then starting over again. he should guarante the case and crank in writing or money back. trust is a big thing here. good luck. turbo
americanflag2a.jpg
 
Engines

Tony,

I also looked around for quite some time for either a core to rebuild or a good deal on a mid time engine. The engines I found on e bay were always suspect because the prop strike engines were were being sold by salvage. I never felt like i really knew the true history on the engine(s).

If your getting a fantastic deal on your engine then it may be worthwhile to tear down, send all the metal parts, and rebuild. That sounds like a fun project.

I will more than likely do the same when my engine needs overhaul. I settled on a higher time first run since new IO-360 from penn Yan with all accessories. For a few more dollars they are pulling the cylinders and bringing them to service limits or higher, inspecting the cam and lifters, and placing in the test cell to verify perofrmance parameters. Overall, I feel comfortable going this route because the engine has no damage history at all and will come with the complete history. It was also ran on a daily basis...a good thing.

Not too sway you or anything, but Penn Yan might have additonal engines to sell. They told me they placed this on the market to reduce inventory and due to the economy.

No need to be superstitious in my opinion. Especially if you rebuild and know exactly what you have.

Good luck.
 
Snowflake said:
I share this concern. Although if it were a wood prop it might be fine. It shouldn't be too hard to put a dial on the flange and check how "true" it is though.
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Edited after I read the remaining posts.

I personally have no problem with a repaired engine, and don't know if the FAA report can be taken as gospel that the prop was truly not spinning when it hit. If it was descending fast enough, the hit alone might have been enough to crack those delicate gears inside.

I've lost too many friends to accidents, hate to hear of an avoidable one. There are probably some good deals on teardowns with the economy being down. My engine is not a system I would be comfortable skimping on, and his purchase price plus a teardown may still be a reasonable engine price compared to "new."
 
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