[PerfTech]

Super Short-field in my RV-9

Here is a small video of some short takeoff and landings. I try to practice this regularly as you never know when you will need to hit your spot and may only have one shot at it. I now have the landings down to consistently under 500 feet. I think you should never land without picking a spot and hitting it. This is far more important than making it a super smooth one. If you were to float over your landing spot in an emergency power off situation, it is vary difficult to smoothly impact a building or tree at the end. Should you agree, please give me some feedback. Happy landings, Allan

http://vimeo.com/18601468

 

[bkthomps]

you should full stop them so it's easier to see the short distance

 

[IowaRV9Dreamer]

how do you land so short?

Allan - the landings look great - can you describe your technique? Do you fly certain airspeeds, or maybe AOA?

 

[PerfTech]

you should full stop them so it's easier to see the short distance

I did full stop some of them but unfortunatly thase didn't make it in to the video. I did so many and was trying to save the brakes, but you still get the idea. Thanks, Allan

 

[terrykohler]

Practice Make Perfect

Allan:
Good work. Just a couple of comments re technique. With a stall speed in landing configuration in the area of 43 kts., a stable approach at 55 should give you the distance you're looking for. Also, by establishing your speed further out, you may find you can come in a little steeper. Most importantly, always keep the nose wheel off the pavement. Your should be able to unstick it on takeoff just about when your AS indicator comes alive. On landing, hold it off as long as you can - just keep increasing back pressure. As far as brakes, you'll find you won't need them until turnoff.
I agree with your "approach" to landings - if you can't hold your speed or hit your target on a short field, go around.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

 

[PerfTech]

Allan - the landings look great - can you describe your technique? Do you fly certain airspeeds, or maybe AOA?

It's for the most part all the slandered stuff. You need to know your airplane very well, all capabilities and idiosyncrasies. To land extremely short you are on the ragged edge of the envelope and very close to a stall. The very most important thing is precise, accurate airspeed control. You get this right and the rest is easy. My 9 stalls dirty at 44 mph in the book. My tests, with my airspeed indicator say 49 mph and that is the important number. I use 1.2 X or 60 on short final to 100 feet or so short of my point at 10 feet or less above ground and let ground effect stop the decent. This takes place very rapidly and the decent will start again. I then pull back on the stick increasing the decent a little more and dump the flaps on touchdown. Then it's all brakes and turn off. Sometimes you need to clear an obstacle and a good controlled slip is required. If you are going to slip your plane at close to stall speeds it is extremity important to practice slips at altitude so you know where your plane gives up. I always slip for short landings the same direction as the airspeed indicator can read differently in a slip right or left. Try to hold the slip into ground effect if possible. Also it is good practice to do this testing and landings on calm days with little wind as gusts when close to a stall can ruin your day. Happy landings, Allan

 

[PatD]

Short Field Landings

Allan,

Don't forget that a considerable number of short fields also have obstacles. At my strip the angle coming over those is very important and is controlled by your speed; therefore I suggest that last 50 feet of altitude to touchdown should be at the minimum the wind conditions allow and still permit a flare.

If you are comfortable at your home airport which appears to be relatively large and free of obstacles, seek out a 2500 strip and then a shorter one. Note the difference in both visual cues and your own comfort level. Don't be afraid to go around if things don't look right! Shorter strips tend to be private, but the owner may be willing to let you practice if you ask.

Keep up the good practice,
Pat Donovan
RV9 in progress
PA24 out of 2100x25 ft strip

 

[PerfTech]

Allan,

Don't forget that a considerable number of short fields also have obstacles. At my strip the angle coming over those is very important and is controlled by your speed; therefore I suggest that last 50 feet of altitude to touchdown should be at the minimum the wind conditions allow and still permit a flare.

If you are comfortable at your home airport which appears to be relatively large and free of obstacles, seek out a 2500 strip and then a shorter one. Note the difference in both visual cues and your own comfort level. Don't be afraid to go around if things don't look right! Shorter strips tend to be private, but the owner may be willing to let you practice if you ask.

Keep up the good practice,
Pat Donovan
RV9 in progress
PA24 out of 2100x25 ft strip

I land very often on a service road that is 845 ft in length with my RV-9. I love this little plane!!!!! Allan

 

[terrykohler]

Knots or MPH

My 9 stalls dirty at 44 mph in the book. My tests, with my airspeed indicator say 49 mph.

Allan:
Flight testing of my 9A at gross showed Vso at 43 kts., or just over 49mph. One of the early 9A factory ships was tested by the CAFE Foundation (report is on line) and also shows Vso at 49 mph. Your numbers look good, and while I wouldn't recommend working toward the back side of the power curve, it can be a very effective technique in practiced hands. Of course, that means a good deal of practice at Vmca beforehand. This should absolutely be avoided by low time or inexperienced pilots - there's too little margin for error.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

 

[Geico266]

Allan:
Good work. Just a couple of comments re technique. With a stall speed in landing configuration in the area of 43 kts., a stable approach at 55 should give you the distance you're looking for. Also, by establishing your speed further out, you may find you can come in a little steeper. Most importantly, always keep the nose wheel off the pavement. Your should be able to unstick it on takeoff just about when your AS indicator comes alive. On landing, hold it off as long as you can - just keep increasing back pressure. As far as brakes, you'll find you won't need them until turnoff.
I agree with your "approach" to landings - if you can't hold your speed or hit your target on a short field, go around.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

I think Terry has it right. You had to add power on final which means your slope on final is too shallow. It looks like you landed a 3 point with the nose wheel hitting at the same time. IMHO, this is not a good thing in a -XA model RV. Your landing distance will actually decrease of you set the mains down in a slightly nose up attitude based on your airspeed. Leave the flaps deployed for drag.

Try some slow flight (10-15MPH over stall) at 3,000 AGL and practice a 500' per min decent for 1,000', then "flair in the air" to near zero rate of decent and watch your airspeed for changes. Then try it on an actually landing.

IMHO, If you have to add power to hit the numbers this means you came up short in an engine out situation. If you pick a spot on the runway 1/3rd of the way down the runway, you can practice getting the slope nailed. It is really kinda fun pulling power on final and not adding it back in to see if I judged the slope right for the winds of the day. It take a great deal of practice to pull power and "hit the spot"

Not trying to be critical, just trying to add a different dimension and my experience.

Great topic!

 

[Geico266]

I then pull back on the stick increasing the decent a little more and dump the flaps on touchdown. Then it's all brakes and turn off.

Allan, Try using the flaps and the elevator as airbrakes. Land on the mains, roll out till the nose won't stay up, leaving the flaps depoyed. Put the stick in your gut when the nose wheel is down and the brakes are applied. You should stop faster yet, and take pressure off the nose wheel.

It is good to practice short field landings for sure, but protecting the nose wheel is priority #1.

As always, JMHO.

 

[David-aviator]

Engine out short field landing....

Super Short-field in my RV-9

Here is a small video of some short takeoff and landings. I try to practice this regularly as you never know when you will need to hit your spot and may only have one shot at it. I now have the landings down to consistently under 500 feet. I think you should never land without picking a spot and hitting it. This is far more important than making it a super smooth one. If you were to float over your landing spot in an emergency power off situation, it is vary difficult to smoothly impact a building or tree at the end. Should you agree, please give me some feedback. Happy landings, Allan

http://vimeo.com/18601468

My most important comment is nice work. The rest is based on technique which varies from pilot to pilot and airplane to airplane.

The conditions were perfect, dead calm air like in a simulator, those are fun but rare days around here. In the video he approach appeared flat which is ok and normal for a power on short field operation. With an engine failure the angle will be steeper in order to maintain a safe speed into the flare. The airplane won't stay in the air coming in that flat with a dead engine unless it is a speed bleeding off situation.

It's good to practice this stuff but you can't get too locked into it from the perspective of how it might be with an engine failure. And there almost always will be a wind to deal with. Any gusts, the Vso plus a few knots on final is out the window.

The 9 has better short field performance than the 7 due to the John Ronz wing. I'd estimate the 7 landing distance about 700-800 feet on a perfect day, I've done it a few times. But like you say, speed has to be wired with full flaps and for me that means carrying just a bit of power into the flare. The airplane will not float with full flaps, no power and speed just above stall. Add to any of the above and the machine will float a 1000' easy, or if it does touch down, it will be on the nose wheel which is not good technique at all.

 

[apkp777]

Looks really good.

I too love making short-field landings in my -9. That's one of the reasons I chose this model. I often get comments "you don't need much runway do you?" The tower tells me the "love watching me land". I can easily land and stop in 500 ft. I can do a touch in go in less than a 700. Amazing airplane (pilot's only average).

One thing I have been practicing though, that is a bit more challenging is short-field landings clearing a 50' obstacle. This more accurately simulates an "off-field" scenario. It's definitely much more challenging than a low profile short-field approach. I can only get it down to about 700ft or so with that.

My procedure is maintain 50'AGL until the runway threshold, then chop, drop and plop. It's really amazing how much speed and lift is generating dropping 50' in the -9.

 

[Finley Atherton]

My normal short field approach speed is about 55kts but I have found that l need to be at about 60 to 65kts (depending on prop setting) with a dead engine otherwise there will be insufficient lift in the wings to arrest the rapid rate of descent in the flare.

Fin9A Hartzell VS prop

 

[Smilin' Jack]

Short Field

Allen,
Just a couple of comments. I have never flown an RV but were working on it. but a couple of observations.

On your takeoff. A rolling takeoff vs a use all the runway approach won't gain much. I have seen a rolling takeoff done at the cost of a collapse gear. Just by side loading the gear so much.. Yes it was a retractable.

On landings. Remember all the speeds you learned during your rating.
1.3 VSO. Power off stall speed... as Terry stated your can reduce this to an easy 1.2 and I say even 1.1 speed with power. Try going up to 3000 feet and do a couple of power on Stalls with the power about 1200 rpm or1500rpm and note the speed that the aircraft stalls. That will be our test Vs ADD 1.2 to that for your landing.... Pretty slow..... it is...Almost VSO if not slower
Remember when you land you have another help.. ground effect about 1/2 the windspand some say 18 feet but I tend to think it varies with the wing design. And I believe that 1/2 the span is more correct. Same thing you used on Soft Field takeoffs and were flying before stall speed and just barely holding the aircraft level a foot or two above the ground trying to get airspeed so you could climb at Vx or Vy. Not climbing out of ground effect.

Try holding an imaginary touchdown line on the runway in a constant place on the windshield use a grease pencil to mark this spot and we'll use a
35 foot barrier at the end of the runway. As you remember certification requires a 50 foot barrier. Keep your power on down final as you bleed off your speed to 1.2 or a bit slower as you cross the barrier and then start flaring There should be no float during touchdown.If you float you have excess airspeed.. What were trying to do is fix some variables. One is pitch the second is airspeed.

After touchdown. full back yoke and max braking... since your paying for them go lightly.... but know that if you need them you have them. Try not to drag an approach in just to make the runway... practice a good approach angle so if you lose that engine your not eating crow. You can still land short..

Remember if you have wind.... don't get that slow or if you have turbulance or gusting conditions. We use a great rule of thumb.. 1/2 the wind and all the gust to our Ref Speeds and REF is 1/3 VSO on jets and they are a bit more tempermental than straight wings. I have lived by this is all my flying from J-3's through my current flying.

I am not preaching... but I have flown and taught a lot of folks. Practice as you are and you'll might even knock another 100 feet off that 500. We used to land Cessna 172's in 500 feet but again that was with no barrier and a touch down on the exact end of the runway... no lights on the end of the runway either or they would have been history.

Smilin' Jack