dbuds2

dbuds2

Well Known Member
Hey RV gang, I've been budgeting the purchase of my RV8 finishing kit. I had Van's send me the parts list included in the kit so I could plan what things I might omit, using a Todd's canopy or Sam James cowl instead of Van's.

Anyway, once I priced it all out, I'm finding it hard to believe the whole finishing kit is over $1000 more than all the pieces. There are several hardware bags in the kit that I can't find a direct cost, but, I've accounted for all the major stuff.

Does anyone have input?
 
Quite a bit different than a car where the sum of the parts exceed the cost of the car by over 1000%.
 
dbuds2 said:
Does anyone have input?
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I haven't done a direct comparison, as you have, so this is only a thought, not a judgement...but "the little parts" can cost a lot more than you might think, and finding some of the really odd bits - special connections, etc. - can be tough sometimes.

Probably the nicest thing about having the finish kit was that I was never stuck on the project while I had to order just one little piece that I had forgotten (or more likely, didn't know that I needed). Certainly, if you have all the drawings, you can go through them and order all the bits and pieces in advance.

Paul
 
dbuds2 said:
Hey RV gang, I've been budgeting the purchase of my RV8 finishing kit. I had Van's send me the parts list included in the kit so I could plan what things I might omit, using a Todd's canopy or Sam James cowl instead of Van's.

Anyway, once I priced it all out, I'm finding it hard to believe the whole finishing kit is over $1000 more than all the pieces. There are several hardware bags in the kit that I can't find a direct cost, but, I've accounted for all the major stuff.

Does anyone have input?
Click to expand...
Ordinarily, I'd agree with others about the sum of the parts being cheaper than if bought separately but in your case and planning to go with a different cowl and canopy you just might be on to something that warrants further investigation. A data point: I omitted the standard steel landing gear from my -8 finish kit order and went with Grove gear instead. Doing so made the crate lighter. Making the crate lighter meant that ABS charged more....something about overall crate dimensions versus gross weight. But the real killer is this: Unlike the other subkits, the finish kit contents are declared "plastic" instead of "metal bar stock." The material declaration causes its shipping cost to be much higher than the fuselage or wing kit. If you are planning to omit the cowl and the canopy from the order, I'd contact Van's and ask if the remaining contents in the finish kit can be shipped in a smaller crate and it's contents declared "metal bar stock." If they agree to do it, you will save a lot of money in shipping fees. Depending upon the shipping distance, and Florida is a looong way from Oregon.....the significant savings in shipping alone should easily make up for higher individually purchased parts for the remaining items contained within the finish kit.
 
If you do decide to use Todd's canopy or Sam's cowl, one other thing to consider is that Van's doesn't give you full credit for omitting their parts from the kit -- it's always the cost minus some percentage. Just another factor to consider.
 
75% credit for omitted parts

A few years back when I inquired about omitting parts from the finishing kit for my 9A I was told I would only get 75% credit for those parts. I already had an engine mount and nose gear. I went ahead and ordered the complete kit and keep the mount and gear as spares. With prices increasing 5% each year I'll be dollars ahead in the unfortunate event that I would have to use them down the road.

I know that a 6A driver could have used them at Oshkosh in 2007 after he hit a gopher hole.
 
Fearless said:
A few years back when I inquired about omitting parts from the finishing kit for my 9A I was told I would only get 75% credit for those parts. I already had an engine mount and nose gear. I went ahead and ordered the complete kit and keep the mount and gear as spares. With prices increasing 5% each year I'll be dollars ahead in the unfortunate event that I would have to use them down the road.

I know that a 6A driver could have used them at Oshkosh in 2007 after he hit a gopher hole.
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I came across that garbage when I did my finish kit, because I omited brake parts.
When it came time for the firewall forward, I eliminated that charge by just giving them a list off off their FF kit with what I wanted, no loss, I felt good. THe trick is to not order such and such kit, just get the listing for it, remove the parts you don't want and order the parts individually.
 
I hate to offend anybody...........:D

But it looks like Van's needs to do some (individual) price restructuring; possibly.

It's a fact that the markup on some parts is higher than others. But a business needs that markup to stay in business, especially when the profit margins are tight to begin with. And Van's does run with rather tight margins.

I'm the type of guy that likes to see businesses... stay in business. Especially these days! I'll even sometimes pay more for 100LL somewhere, just to help them get rid of the tank (that they ended up buying when prices were high). Especially, when they were previously lower than the local airport. I DO want to see some FBO's stay in business.

I can certainly see where the 75% only, credit comes in. If we buy all the low margin parts from Van's and substitute aftermarket pieces for the higher priced items, then Van's still does most of the leg work, design, packaging, but looses.

Well, there you have it.... from my point of view:)

L.Adamson
 
I believe Van's is constantly looking at costs and trying to keep their product as reasonably priced as possible.

Example - the 2008 catalog lists oil and fuel pressure lines (VA-102 and VA-133) at $39.50 and $46.50 respectively. If you go to the online store, the updated prices are $15.50 and $18.25 respectively.

I don't know if they changed products or what, but it was a pleasant surprise when I ordered these items online recently.
 
Reality

Fearless said:
A few years back when I inquired about omitting parts from the finishing kit for my 9A I was told I would only get 75% credit for those parts. I already had an engine mount and nose gear. I went ahead and ordered the complete kit and keep the mount and gear as spares. With prices increasing 5% each year I'll be dollars ahead in the unfortunate event that I would have to use them down the road.

I know that a 6A driver could have used them at Oshkosh in 2007 after he hit a gopher hole.
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Mike,
I've noticed the same thing. I suspect that the other 25% is Vans profit margin. By only giving 75% credit on omitted items, Van still makes the same profit margin on a sub kit, regardless of the items omitted. 25% profit margin is rather low, so it's still a good deal, if you simply omit an item or two.
I planned on a lot of mods for my 8A. I bought my cowl, wheels, tires & brakes from other builders. I'm using Skybolt cowl hardware fasteners, a Todd's canopy and other aftermarket bits. I found that the best solution for me was to simply purchase the "finish kit" parts I actually needed. That way I got 100% credit for the items I did not want in a "finish kit". Vans does not "discount" parts when you buy a sub kit. Just an FYI for those considering these things.
I've already purchased my engine mount/nose gear leg from Vans. I'll purchase the canopy frame and hardware later, when I'm actually ready for those items. This saves me money and reduces the shop space needed to store items I'm not yet ready to install.
Charlie Kuss
 
Great input guys

I think Paul has guessed part of the disconnect, the small bag parts will cost more than expected. And, like many others, I enjoy supporting Vans and am very thankful I can and will contribute to their success.

I raised the question because, I expected the cost difference would be in the $100's of dollars not well over $1000. So after I finally get my order in for an equivalent Finishing Kit, I'll report back if my accounting was goofed up. :)
 
Not trying to throw them under the Bus

Hey,

I'm not trying to throw Vans under the Bus for their business practices. I only stated what I found out at the time. I recently asked them for a parts breakdown for a firewall forward kit for a O-320 160 hp fixed pitch engine (which they sent me on my last order). I have been buying some of the firewall forward components when I need replacement parts to help offset the shipping costs somewhat and usually don't place an order for less than $100 bucks. I buy all of my hardware from Vans because they usually have the best prices compared to Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. It would be nice to know what hardware is contained in some of those bags that you will need. Once again I might be better off buying the whole kit and then selling what I didn't need on this site.

When I finish my build 10 years from now I most definitely what Vans to still be in business.
 
any news on this?

dbuds2 said:
So after I finally get my order in for an equivalent Finishing Kit, I'll report back if my accounting was goofed up. :)
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Hey Bud (or others) - did you ever figure out if it is best to order the pieces instead of a kit? I'm getting ready for the finishing kit, and think I won't want Vans spinner and maybe wheels/brakes/tires.

The Vans price does seem awful high, even in AMUs ;)

dave
 
I have not done an exact comparison, but what I have compared, it is probably best to just get the finishing kit and then sell off what ever small parts you don't want/need.

The difference looked really close to me once all the small parts bags were included. Even if the kit were a little more, it is definitely worth it to me to have all the parts on hand when I need them instead of finding that I forgot to order some small part that is needed and end up losing the little bit I saved by paying for shipping costs when I have to order the small stuff.


ymmv
 
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