T

tinman

Well Known Member
I have a friend who is interested in learning to fly with the end goal being joining me as a partner in my RV-8. My thinking is that it is going to take a good number of hours until I would feel comfortable turning him loose in the -8 and that these hours might as well be in a taildragger from the start. He is a large person...240 lbs. I was looking for a suitable taildragger to serve as a trainer that he could purchase to take him through his PPL and another 100 hours or so at which point he could sell it and buy into my -8 as a partner. I would think that side-by-side seating would be better for training purposes, so the Cessna 120/140, Luscombe, Chief, and Piper PA-16 come to mind. I would think that at his size, a larger engine than the 65 or 85 would be necessary in order to fly with an instructor. This makes the PA-16 seem to be the choice. I have never flown the Clipper, so I don't know if it would make a good trainer. The clipped wings might make it fly similar to the RV's.
Any thoughts about what would make a good taildragger trainer for less than $30k for a larger fellow?
 
We had a Maule on the field that would haul a load and relatively cheap to buy/own/operate
 
The "factory plane" which best matches an RV would be an AA-1 Yankee.

They are fairly inexpensive to buy, and hold what little value they have fairly well.

They also have a cool feature - you can slide back the canopy a bit in flight to let your scarf hang out...

:D
 
Two Votes for the PA-20

The PA-20 will definitely prepare your friend for flying your -8. Mine still has the original narrow gear, and it is not tolerant of inattention on take off or landing. There are plenty of them available that have had upgrades to an O-320, which makes it a good performer.
I noted that you said your friend is a big fellow. That will be a drawback for any side by side trainer. Although, the PA-22/20's (converted Tri-Pacer) are wider than the original PA-20's at the shoulders.
I have had the pleasure of owning my PA-20 for 8 years now, and despite numerous offers to buy it, would not part with it. If your friend would like to get more information, feel free to email me and we can set up a call.
Good Luck!
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, but why do you think side-by-side is better for primary instruction? Sure, you can draw things and pass charts back and forth, but the cockpit makes for a poor classroom. Lengthy discussion that requires face-to-face explaining and something other than flight demonstration or simple discussion is perhaps best left for post-flight debrief. YMMV

My vote would be a 115 Hp Citabria (or maybe a Champ) followed by some transition time in a Super Decathalon. The Citabria is benign enough for ab initio students and is similar enough to the Decathalon to be an easy transition. Fairly common, easy to find instruction. Super D has the 180Hp engine and CS prop that (I assume) you'll have in your RV-8, similar wing loading. You'll have an obvious transition from high wing to low wing, but IMHO that's less of an issue than going from side-by-side to tandem.

Your friend should fit in the front OK, but you'll need to watch weight if you're going to do acro.

TODR
 
Student pilot? Citabria. ;-) 150 hp minimum. (for weight and balance purposes)

DM

C-140s are pretty good trainers too. Just get more than 85 hp.
 
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I will second what the_other_dougreeves said. I am 240# and am learning to fly in 115 hp Citabria. Having the instructor in the back is just fine. He hits me on the side of my head when I screw up. I also plan to move to the Super Decathalon like Doug said. I am building a 7, so when it's ready I will have to get used to the side by side seating. They are always for sale but they are fairly cheap to rent also. I'm paying $100.00 wet in the SF Bay area. Probably more expensive than the rest of the Country?

Phil
 
I think a Piper Tomahawk or a Gruman AA-1 would be a good place to start regarding energy management on approach to landing. The sight picture is similar to an RV and the glide performance is similar to a dirty RV. I had about 300 hours in a Tomahawk before I flew the RV, and I think it was very helpful. I also had 6 hours in a Taylorcraft, 3 hours of dual in a -6, and a couple of brush-up hours in a Citabria which prepared me to fly my -6 on calm days until I improved my tailwheel skills.

None of the low powered airplanes will give your prospective partner the p-factor or acceleration on takeoff he will experience in an RV.
 
TRAINER

Years ago I flew with a student who was close to 300# in a fabric wing Luscombe 8A. The Luscombe will do just fine, with the metal wing it does not perform nearly as well in takeoff and climb. The 120/140 is pretty much the same except that the metal wing conversions and the factory metal wing 140A do not perform as well as the fabric wing. The PA16 and early PA20 have the same landing gear and are the same physical size. Most PA 20's have flaps and all have control wheels vs the PA16 stick. The PA 20 will handle a crosswind a bit better because the ailerons are a bit more powerful. The Pipers have rust problems in the cabin area. Be careful of this. It appears to be a buyers market right now for Luscombes or Cessna 120/140. I am very partial to the Luscombes as being the best transition trainer for high performance taildraggers with the PA16/PA20 a close second. The Citabria and Decathalon are much too easy to fly to be effective.
 
Phil MacFarlane said:
Having the instructor in the back is just fine. He hits me on the side of my head when I screw up. I also plan to move to the Super Decathalon like Doug said. I am building a 7, so when it's ready I will have to get used to the side by side seating. They are always for sale but they are fairly cheap to rent also. I'm paying $100.00 wet in the SF Bay area. Probably more expensive than the rest of the Country?

Phil
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Exactly right, the smack upside the head from the instructor. Not that I'd ever know :D

Renting a Citabria in the bay area ... I'm guessing Amelia Reid at RHV?

TODR
 
Renting a Citabria in the bay area ... I'm guessing Amelia Reid at RHV?

TODR[/QUOTE]

Well I was going to go to Amelia Reid, now called Advantage Aviation. But I live in San Mateo, I did the test drive down the 101 in the middle of the day on a Saturday no real traffic to speak of and it still took almost an hour. No wat I was willing to do that.
Flying out of Palo Alto PAO with West Valley Flying Club.

Phil
 
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