rzbill

rzbill

Well Known Member
I am past the point of needing to buy an ELT and am having a really hard time finding what I want. I ask for some input that might help identify the right unit.

There is one main requirement that I want to meet. It is the desire for a cabin mounted unit (within arms reach of the pilot) with no supplementary electrical connections other than antenna (directly mounted whip or ducky antenna preferred).

I will consider both 121.5 and 406 units. The kilobuck for a 406 does not bother me. However, if I am forced to a 121.5, I ain't payin' much for it since they are pretty much useless except for legality.

On multiple occations, I have reviewed the selections at Spruce and looked over the data sheets. It seems that all the 406 units require the remote panel and I am simply not going to do that. If there is a unit that does not require it, or a way around it legally, I will gladly get a 406.

Well, then we get to the 121.5s. There are a few that are self contained but to buy new, we are talking $600 just to be legal with low functionality. I know ebay is out there but really was not comfortable with that option.

So, there is my mental conundrum. I'm closing in on this being a critical path item so suggestions are welcome.
 
Go on ebay and get the cheapest used ELT you can buy to be legal and put that in your airplane. Then go out and get your ham ticket and put an APRS in. And make sure you tell your family how to get to your track on aprs. To me this setup is far superior to a 406 ELT.
 
rocketbob said:
Go on ebay and get the cheapest used ELT you can buy to be legal and put that in your airplane. Then go out and get your ham ticket and put an APRS in. And make sure you tell your family how to get to your track on aprs. To me this setup is far superior to a 406 ELT.
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I would agree. I put in a cheapo 121.5 ELT that was retrofitable to a new 406 if it came down to it.
 
I agree with the cheap 121.5 ELT to be legal, plus another option that actually WORKS (to get you found). I went the PLB (on my shoulder harness) route - there are some very compact, reasonably priced GPS-enabled units out there. So long as you remember to activate it, the helicopters will be on the way. Of course, if you're intrested in tracking, and have the time and interest to go APRS, that is neat!
 
rzbill said:
. . .Well, then we get to the 121.5s. There are a few that are self contained but to buy new, we are talking $600 just to be legal with low functionality. I know ebay is out there but really was not comfortable with that option. . .
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$600 for a 121.5 is robbery! You should be able to get a 121.5 new around $150. Here is one from Aircraft Spruce.

I am not sure what your specific issues are with the remote switch but if you don't want to mount it remotely on your panel, mount it on the unit by securing it to the ELT body with the Handyman's Secret Weapon or some other similar fastening mechanism.

Live Long and Prosper!
 
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agree with Paul.

I went with cheapo 121.5 ELT and a spot GPS tracker on my shoulder harness.

When I make the perfect forced landing in the swamp the SPOT will be easy to carry around hunting for alligators while awaiting rescue.
 
rzbill said:
I am past the point of needing to buy an ELT and am having a really hard time finding what I want. I ask for some input that might help identify the right unit.

There is one main requirement that I want to meet. It is the desire for a cabin mounted unit (within arms reach of the pilot) with no supplementary electrical connections other than antenna (directly mounted whip or ducky antenna preferred).

I will consider both 121.5 and 406 units. The kilobuck for a 406 does not bother me. However, if I am forced to a 121.5, I ain't payin' much for it since they are pretty much useless except for legality.

On multiple occations, I have reviewed the selections at Spruce and looked over the data sheets. It seems that all the 406 units require the remote panel and I am simply not going to do that. If there is a unit that does not require it, or a way around it legally, I will gladly get a 406.

Well, then we get to the 121.5s. There are a few that are self contained but to buy new, we are talking $600 just to be legal with low functionality. I know ebay is out there but really was not comfortable with that option.

So, there is my mental conundrum. I'm closing in on this being a critical path item so suggestions are welcome.
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If you are concerned with legality, you must use a remote control panel. The regs associated with ELT installation require the ELT to be in the rear portion of the plane and the controls to be accessible to the pilot. Hence....a remote control unit.

You should be able to buy a new 121.5 ELT that uses Duracell batteries for less than $200.00. The really tricky part of the installation is figuring out where to mount the antenna.....
 
Talk to some of the avionics shops. As they remove the older 121.5's replacing them with 406's for customers they usually trash the old one. I'm sure they have no problem selling one of those to you. The older ones did not have the panel mounted switch and will not require it to stay legal.
 
If you don't mind spending the money and you don't want to be bothered with a separate PLB, you might consider a 406 ELT with a built-in GPS.

Dave
 
All ELT's must be installed per the manufacturers installation manual. If the unit was TSO'd with a remote mounted control panel and the installatain manual specifies it then it must be installed unless the manual states it as "optional". If you don't install it per the manufacturers manual than it will not meet the TSO and you will be in violation of 91.207.
 
Walt said:
All ELT's must be installed per the manufacturers installation manual. If the unit was TSO'd with a remote mounted control panel and the installatain manual specifies it then it must be installed unless the manual states it as "optional". If you don't install it per the manufacturers manual than it will not meet the TSO and you will be in violation of 91.207.
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And lest my statement about the "Handyman's Secret Weapon" was not interpreted as such. . . I was making light of the idea of finding a way to mount the remote switch near the unit and/or pilot.

Often times functionality and legality are not always in line with each other.
 
I have see no data that shows that a 406 MHz ELT is more likely to activate in a crash than a 121.5 MHz unit. Hence (my opinion) both are mandated dead weight.

If you want to be rescued or body retrieved, get an APRS system (best choice) or Spot. You want your position recorded for as long as possible to minimize the search area.
 
My opinion:

If you're wanting legal, get a cheap 121.5 and use that.

APRS is fine in many places, but there are also a lot of places that don't have coverage. APRS will get searchers perhaps in the ballpark, but is not nearly as good as SPOT or PLB.

SPOT or PLB generally have very good coverage everywhere, and better chance of pinpointing your location ON THE GROUND than APRS, provided they are activated.

I personally have the 121.5 in the tail to meet legality, APRS for family and friends (and maybe even the FBI!) to track my movements on cross-country flights, and a 406 PLB mounted on the left side of the cockpit in case of forced landing of some sort.

cheers,
greg

p.s. I think the FAA should allow either 121.5, 406 fixed, or 406 mobile (PLB) as options. But my opinion probably doesn't count at the FAA.
 
Unnecessary Mandate

Personally, I think ELT's are a waste of time. When I was flying SaR I probably responded to 15-20 airplane crashes. Of those only one was found with the ELT and it didn't matter. We had a pretty defined area and it would have only been a matter of a few minutes before the aircraft was found anyway.

Regarding the antenna placement, I will submit that you only need to get it close to an exposed area for simple reason if you go down with enough impact to set it off and need help, I'm pretty sure it will be exposed:eek:

Sadly, the 406 ELTs are very expensive. Can't really figure out why.
 
Ron Lee said:
IIf you want to be rescued or body retrieved, get an APRS system (best choice) or Spot. You want your position recorded for as long as possible to minimize the search area.
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The SPOT is nice for a general idea for when I should start supper (when I see Louise headed home from work in the evening) but let's face it - with a ten minute update interval, at RV speeds? The search area is HUGE unless you send out an "Emergency" message.
 
RV7Guy said:
Sadly, the 406 ELTs are very expensive. Can't really figure out why.
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Because they have a fairly effective cartel, almost as good as the parts monopoly of Cessna, Piper, etc. There's certainly nothing inherently expensive in the electronics.

greg
 
A cheap 121.5 plus Spidertracks is another option. You get worldwide coverage, short reporting intervals and automatic SOS reporting even if the pilot is incapacitated or worse. The downside is the higher cost than Spot.

Fin
9A
Track me on Spidertracks
 
Ironflight said:
The SPOT is nice for a general idea for when I should start supper (when I see Louise headed home from work in the evening) but let's face it - with a ten minute update interval, at RV speeds? The search area is HUGE unless you send out an "Emergency" message.
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I agree Paul, but it does provide some tracking versus an ELT which provides none. Plus it can be set to auto transmit whereas my PLB is activate once in an emergency if I have time. At least the Spot may have an option to transmit an emergency position which would be faster than the PLB since it already is powered and has a position.

Bill needs to determine what he expects of the SAR system and the best way to ensure his desired outcome. My belief is that it will involve more than an ELT. If true, then go cheap on the ELT and incorporate the other system as he chooses.

I have a 406 MHz PLB with GPS and need to install APRS.
 
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At least in marine units, the 406 devices with the built-in GPS have a record of rapid, successful saves in difficult conditions.

If you're going to actually have an ELT, you ought to have one that functions automatically and is from a company with a track record. It should meet the TSO. Otherwise why bother?

Dave
 
I don't trust APRS to get me found up here in AK, but I do think it's a good idea so that my wife can see where I am when I'm roaming about.

For a real emergency I purchased an ACK ELT-04 which is a 406Mhz unit that gets GPS from my panel. Should the ELT trip, the coast guard should know where I am pretty fast.

As far as I'm concerned that gets both bases covered without monthly fees.

schu
 
Thanks to all

The VAF team can continue the discussion if desired but I think I have the direction I need.

1) Get a 121.5 to satisfy THE MAN. I had missed the AmeriKing $150 Bus sized ELT at Spruce. The other two, EBC and Pointer were in the 5 to 600 range.

2) I got the impression during research that the 406 TSO required the remote panel (corroborated by Sam). My reluctance to the remote is two-fold Steve. I want simple and light plus my panel and wiring is complete.

3) I like the option of using a portable non-FAA location device.

I think the APRS is cool so I understand Bobs suggestion however I have seen some complaint threads from Hams. I am indebted to Hams (In a roundabout way, I am here at VAF because of Hams) so and I have no desire to cause them trouble even if minor.

Probably lean towards 406 PLB on the fishing vest per Paul.

SO, time to go shopping for the CHEAPest 121.5 elt I can find that will pass.

Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts

Y'all have a good weekend, I'm taking a builders holiday and off to ride the Dragon today
 
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akschu said:
For a real emergency I purchased an ACK ELT-04 which is a 406Mhz unit that gets GPS from my panel. Should the ELT trip, the coast guard should know where I am pretty fast.
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I am needing to buy an ELT and saw this thread.

I was considering the ACK ELT E-04 and the Kannad 406 AF-COMPACT (but now am thinking of the 3rd option, cheapo 121.5 + PLB).

The ACK is attractive in price for a 406 MHz unit and has the GPS input available. But, I'm thinking in a crash, that cable is going to be severed or the GPS will be inop, so what good is the input? On the other hand, if the ACK will simply use the latest available GPS coordinate, then it's little matter if the cable is broken in a forced landing.

The Kannad is the cheapest 406 MHz ELT I could find with integrated GPS.

Just sore of musing out loud here...feel free to muse with me.

Edit: Got this reply from Ack, Inc. to my inquiry about using the last GPS position:

"The ELT will retain the last GPS coordinates for one minute when disconnected from the GPS data source before it is activated and for 4 hours after it is activate.

Mike Akatiff"
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That pretty much does it for me, I think I'll get that model. Legal to travel to other countries; much more assurance with the 406MHz model that in a crash the SAR system will be alerted; and a good chance they'll have your last position with the GPS input.
 
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Ron Lee said:
I have see no data that shows that a 406 MHz ELT is more likely to activate in a crash than a 121.5 MHz unit. Hence (my opinion) both are mandated dead weight.

If you want to be rescued or body retrieved, get an APRS system (best choice) or Spot. You want your position recorded for as long as possible to minimize the search area.
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This is where the panel mounted control unit comes in. If you are faced with a possible crash landing, then push the ELT "activate" button while still airborne. If you are lucky enough to avoid the crash after activating, then push the ELT "reset" button.

A good 406 MHz ELT is not dead weight if you use it as designed. Activating it before an emergency landing should be an item on your emergency landing check list.

Having a backup 406 MHz EPRB in your pocket is a good idea, too.
 
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