[Staunch111]

Hi All, other than buying new from the factory (titan, superior, eci), can someone provide some tips on how to NOT end up buying a stolen engine. Is there a database I can run the engine case serials through. Without stripping down the internals, how do I know what is claimed to he there really is (other than buying it from a reputable engine shop (ie Penn and others). Given the cost of our engines, are they finding their way to.unscrupulous sellers. Are there any persons/ shops you would avoid. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Xkuzme1]

...

I would think that if you were buying a used engine, making sure the logs accompanied the engine would be the best way. I wouldnt imagine that a new engine would easily find itself in the hands of a thief.

X

 

[bret]

Ditto above, the engine I just bought has three logbooks dating back to 1964, and the prop has log books. These also have the Aircraft N # that you can verify with the FAA.

 

[Staunch111]

All well and good if there are log books, but then there are a number of engines (you know removed from cessnas and like) now sitting on the hangar floor either with 1500hrs or as cores with no logs. How do I check?

 

[Raymo]

If buying as a core engine, you will be sending it off for OH, which will generate a new logbook. Without knowing the history of the engine, you would want the OH to provide a zero time engine so its new life is properly documented. An OH to minimum specs does not zero the engine and you would not know how many hours with which to start the logbook.

 

[cderk]

Wow - this is pretty amazing... had no idea there was a problem with stolen aircraft engines in the marketplace.

 

[Staunch111]

See my understanding. Joe Blow rocks up, bolts off 3 engines at a quiet field -100k down the tube. Assuming their insured- fine. But if New engines, the relevant maker can provide serials for all internals thereby limiting the reuse of such parts in an,above board shop. But looking around and buying privately off say Barnstormers- I really could be buying anything.Hence my reluctance to source privately and while ill most end up paying top dollar for a new engine

 

[Charles C]

Another option

Another option you could do is call your local law enforcement agency and provide them with the serial number off the engine. I work in Law enforcement and if something like an engine has been stolen and the owner/reporter has the serial number it would be entered into a national data base. If the serial number is run by another law enforcement agency the serial number would pop up as a stolen item.

Just an idea....

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

I did a quick google search for "stolen lycoming engine". Not a whole lot comes up. Plenty of stolen airplanes, but very few stolen engines. Not that it doesn't or couldn't happen, and I'm sure somebody will chime in with a story about how it happened to them, but it's not something I would have worried too much about, especially because I bought an engine out of a flying RV.

If you're buying an engine from somebody who has it in a basement, knows little about it or it's history, or otherwise seems sketchy, I would pass for a number of reasons. There are plenty of reputable people and places to buy a used engine, I wouldn't be overly concerned with this.

Chris

 

[RVDan]

I did a quick google search for "stolen lycoming engine". Not a whole lot comes up. Plenty of stolen airplanes, but very few stolen engines. Not that it doesn't or couldn't happen, and I'm sure somebody will chime in with a story about how it happened to them, but it's not something I would have worried too much about, especially because I bought an engine out of a flying RV.

If you're buying an engine from somebody who has it in a basement, knows little about it or it's history, or otherwise seems sketchy, I would pass for a number of reasons. There are plenty of reputable people and places to buy a used engine, I wouldn't be overly concerned with this.

Chris

A lot of stolen airplanes are broken down into parts that are untraceable. The engine is likely also broken down so it is not traceable. A club I was part of had an airplane stolen. No trace of the airplane or the engine, the main things with recorded serial numbers. 2 years later an ex member of the club was arrested for parting out airplanes. He would fly them into his farm, put them in his barn and strip down for parts sales. Pretty sure that is where our airplane went.

 

[rzbill]

A lot of stolen airplanes are broken down into parts that are untraceable. The engine is likely also broken down so it is not traceable. A club I was part of had an airplane stolen. No trace of the airplane or the engine, the main things with recorded serial numbers. 2 years later an ex member of the club was arrested for parting out airplanes. He would fly them into his farm, put them in his barn and strip down for parts sales. Pretty sure that is where our airplane went.

Frederick huh. I don't think we ever met when I was renting out of KDMW and building at home, Dan. My loss. All I can say is WoW. Makes me wonder about a TALL stack of Garmins that got purloined out of a newly finished Rocket at KDMW circa 2005.

 

[DTARM1]

Data Plates.........

Pretty hard to find that an engine is stolen unless the seller just doesn't know how to change the data plate. An A&P instructor of mine, "Dufas Mykakas" use to be the Maintenance Director at a small part 135 outfit. One of his mechanics had several "spare" data tags in a drawer of his tool-box he had taken off timed-out engines. Since they were going through engines pretty regularly, they always had a couple they were overhauling. They would simply put a bunch of new parts in / on and the new data tag and put the engine back on the aircraft. That is until the FAA inspected them, found out what they were doing, and shut them down.

Removing a s/n (data plate) is a crime. And no one but the factory or an authorized representative can zero time an engine and even then, the engine s/n begins with an "R". All the parts of the rebuilt engine need to meet the same tolerances as a new engine and the engine needs to be tested after assembly. The testing is quite elaborate and requires enormously expensive equipment and that's why zero time engines are so expensive, well that and because of wages, liability issues, and profit. CFR 91.421 (c)

Overhaul? Mike Bush wrote a pretty good article about the "O" word and its ramifications in a recent issue of AOPA. Once you tell your mechanic you want to overhaul the engine, they're required to use the factory overhaul manual and replace parts (even if they are metro-logically identical to the "old" parts in your engine) and to be honest some of the "old" parts could be better than the "new".

So stolen engines, data plates, overhaul, rebuilt,

You can take this with a grain of salt, but if you call your police about your suspension of a stolen engine, they will dispatch a cop to the engine's location and check the s/n. When it comes back as stolen, you'll get your plane impounded on the spot and you'll never get that engine back nor will you get your money back and you'll likely be out a lot more in lawyers fees - all because you're trying to do the right thing.

 

[tim2542]

ID

Tell the seller you want to take a pic of his drivers license for the records. If he's legit he won't have any problem with this.
However, you of course will be doing your "due diligence" before handing over cash anyway, especially if there is no log book, I think you will be smelling something rotten by the time you get the whole story.
Tim Andres