ChiefPilot

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
Today, my oldest son (7 yrs) asked if he could help me work on my airplane. I'm happy, and confused as well. I think it'd be cool as beans to have him help, but on the other hand I'm not sure of any tasks he could manage without hurting himself or the plane or both.

What have some of you all done with children wanting to help? Any suggestions?
 
Start him with the simple stuff, like deburing holes by hand.

How about installing and removing clecos? That would have been a big help back before everything was riveted together.

Having him there to help would be so cool. Time spent together now will pay off in a big way in the coming years.
 
A great question !

Funny you should ask about this. I have a 10 and a 6 yr old who both want to help with the airplane. I would love to include them, but like you not sure exactly where. My 6 yr. old daughter likes working with the deburring tools, so I have let her work on some scrap aluminum. I clip the sharp 90 degree edges so it is not dangerous for her. I then let her deburr the edges along with some holes I've drilled.

For 6 yrs. old, she does a great job deburring!

Perhaps getting one of those Vans Toolboxes for the young ones to learn metalworking. They can be working on that while you are working on the plane. A little training like that could go a long way towards building confidence in themselves, as well as in you in their abilities to actually do something airplane related.

Maybe have them start by doing some of the mundane chores we all hate....like deburring stiffeners' edges and drilled holes. Something where if the part gets screwed up, it is not a huge deal to fabricate another one! Maybe spending the time to scuff up a part prior to priming....all sorts of little odd jobs of the like.
 
many things ...

My 8-yr old son helps with:
- clecos (pneumatic easier than pliars for little hands). Also, once the holes are final sized, the clecos go in and out much easier for him.
- works the lever on the DRDT-2 dimpler
- sqeezing rivits with me using the pneumatic sqeezah,
- measuring that the shop heads of every rivet are within spec with Clear Air's tool gage. (Sure, once the sqeezah is set I don't need to measure every one, but he likes it and it keeps him busy)
- counting out the number of rivits I need and putting them in the hole just before riveting
- cutting out the paper templates for the foam blocks in the -10 elevator/trim tab
- deburring holes with me with the Cogsdill tool
- match drilling holes with me

All in all, he comes and goes while I'm in the shop. I figure if I make him help me, it won't work out. Of course when he wants to help, I go out of my way to let him do something. In fact, just tonight he wanted to help with the priming. We got out the extra respirator, tightened it up, got a good seal, and he held the parts steady while I sprayed.

FWIW, I put the small Mickey Mouse TV he got from his grandma a couple years ago in the shop. I figure having him out there with me is half the battle. That way when he's tired of helping, he can watch a little TV until he's ready to help again.

Best,

Jim
 
Clecos and artwork!

I've been working on my RV-6A for 10+ years (getting close to done) and have 3 kids: girls ages 16 & 10, and a 13 year old son. All have helped at one time or another when I needed a third hand but the youngest two are the ones that used to ask if they could help and I'd usually have them install/remove clecos or help hold skins, etc in place while I clamped or taped prior to measuring, drilling, etc (I know, more modern builders don't have to do that anymore) - things took a little longer but it was worth the extra time to have them involved for a while because sooner or later they get older or bored with it and quit asking.

The youngest went through a phase during the fuselage "upside down canoe" stage where she was always wanting to help but too young to really do anything useful (couldn't grip the cleco pliers). So I gave her a Sharpie and the mechanics creeper to get under the fuselage and told her I needed the inside skins decorated. All the "family portraits", black rainbows, trees, dogs, hearts, and "I love you"s are all still there for review when the empennage fairing or baggage compartment bulkhead is removed for maintenance or inspection - most are upside down since they were drawn when the fuselage was in the jig, but we're both still proud to show them off! I did eventually clean and paint over pictures in the cockpit area.

Lot's of ways to get them involved if they want to, but I did find that giving them sandpaper and asking them to sand rib or skin edges wasn't a good way to keep them around the shop...they got bored real quick with that and wanted to do the "fun" stuff.

Good luck!
Chris
RV-6A
 
There's always something to be done inside the tail boom :D I've got a short, slight, aircraft building buddy who is always ready and willing to crawl inside my tail boom when something needs to be done in there.

Seriously, I wish I could have started this when my son and daughter were home. Grown and gone and I'm missing what could have been some truely quality time with them. Speaking as an empy nester, involve them everywhere you possible can. Every minute you spend in the shop with them will add immeasurable to your happiness and thiers, now and for the rest of your lives. I would even recommend allowing the shared experience slow the build if necessary to gain the life-long benefits.

I work on a group building project in my local EAA chapter and we have a father and son in our group, mid seventuies and early fifties, that still share a passion they shared when the son was a boy. I can't think of a nicer way to live.

Jekyll
 
Absolutely

Jekyll hit the nail on the head.......it's such a great opportunity for some real quality time. I too, am now an empty nester with a 25 year old son who still hugs me everytime he and the new wife visit....tears and all.

6 and 7 year olds fit nicely in the tailcone and can buck rivets like crazy. It only takes 5-10 minutes of practice on some scrap in the vise with you shooting and them bucking. I laid a 1 X 12 piece of wood in the botton of the fuselage to lie on.

They'll lie down in there and run wires all the way to the tail and then silicone them in place.........lotsa uses for the kids. :D (Especially under the instrument panel!!)
Regards,
 
somewhere out there is a PA-16 with a weird shaped patch under the stabilizer that my 6 year old "helped" me with, and then he grew up and bucked almose all the rivets wih me on the -8, and he crawled in the tail to back rivet the fuse.

Bottom Line -- anything, clecoes, deburr, hand squeeze with some help. Take some scrap and make a Christmas ornament-you'd be amazed.

Also a great time to learn shop sfety--they love glasses, ear muffs etc.

Watch out, pretty soon they know more than you do!!
 
ChiefPilot said:
Today, my oldest son (7 yrs) asked if he could help me work on my airplane.......Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
If your son is strong enough to simply hold a bucking bar firmly against a skin, you can back-rivet a hugh amount of the airframe. There are special cushioned gloves specifically designed for bucking but short of that you might want to fit him with a pair of soft gloves while he holds the bucking bar. Experiment of some scrap/test pieces first to see how you both work as a team. :cool:
 
helpers

This year at Oshkosh I volunteered at KidVenture on the riveting projects for a couple days. I was amazed at how well most of the kids did. They were not "allowed" to drill but they could shoot or buck rivets. Most did a great job. There was one kid about 8 years old that was just a natural, I didn't even need to be there for him. You could tell with how he handled tools that it all just made perfect sense to him. That was fun! Get the kids involved!
 
my son at 6 wanted to help

I let him install rivets and remove clecoes, now he thinks the gold ones are special (they were half sizes)

 
Wow, lots of great ideas - thanks! I hadn't thought about the tailcone stuff at all and I have to install all the bushings etc. yet - perfect! Although I don't think I have a lot of bucking left (well, only the top forward skin and misc. stuff after that) there are a lot of things waiting to get pulled rivets (rear baggage floor, seat pans, etc.) that Grant would be able to easily do with the pneumatic rivet puller.

And since he loves to draw airplanes, maybe I'll turn him loose inside the tailcone with a sharpie or two - awesome idea!
 
Kid helpers

I wouldnt trade the time my son "helped" me with for any amount of money. I started my -4 slooow build the year my son was born,and now 13 years later we are still working on it, but close to finishing. I still use the baby wipe boxes for cleco storage to this date.He started hanging out in the shop with me just after he was able to walk,and learned the saftey items first. I bought him a cheap set of tools to fiddle with,and lots of spare hardware to learn dexterity and assembly. By age 3 he was actually able to do simple tasks and knew most all of my tools by name and where to find them in my tool box (great gopher!) At age six he bucked almost all of the wing skin rivets for me as well as the fuselage tail cone area. He has also learned to fly, and could probably solo my old Taylorcraft now if I let him. It bothers me to hear people say they wouldnt try building an airplane til the kids are grown...they dont know what they are missing!

Bill E.,
-4 father/son slooow build project
 
Childerns help

I to enlisted the help of my children at times.

Non really had that much interest. When I started my RV-7 my youngest was 11 and oldest was 15 (with two in between).

One day my older son ~14 at the time was helping debur stiffeners. I gave him a cordless drill with at deburring bit in it. As he progressed I monitored his work. But as the battery was going down, he pushed a little harder. The end result was the parts were deburred too deep. I didn't make a big deal about it but he felt pretty bad. I told it it wasn't a problem and I wasn't mad at all. I still think it broke his confidence.

My suggestion is that if you have your children help, be prepared for mistakes and accidents. If something happens (other then personal injury) I wouldn't even mention it to the child. Don't have them work on something that you can not afford a mistake or dent in.

In hindsight I should have told my son the parts were great and then made new ones in his absence. I wish I could do it over again. He has helped me with several big projects over the years. One in particular was the building of the shop. At 14 he ran the jackhammer busting up a concrete wall and helped run wire, put in insulation, paint etc. I am glad I have photos of all that.

To date non of my kids are really interested in the RV. Unfortunately they are very tall and when they stop growing they might be too tall to fit in the RV anyway. (5'10"-Girl 20 yrs, she will fit, 6'5"-Boy 18 yrs still growing, 6'-Girl 16 yrs still growing, 6'4"-Boy 14 yrs still growing)

Paul
 
Whenever my kids helped with a task, they had to "sign" the piece with a Sharpie. Granted they were a bit older than 7 -- early to mid teens was the short period of time when they were interested in the plane. But now I have a plane full of "autographs."

I can't paint the cabin floor (between the angle stiffeners) as it would cover the "Uber rivets by Patrick" scrawl. Maybe carpet.
 
Ditto on the artwork. I intentionally have left all the blue film on mine because my two girls color on it and just keep me company while I work. They love it, I like the company, and I get to see it even when they are not there. The day I have to take all of that off (probably with a hot hair dryer by that time!) will be one of the sadder days of my life! :) :(
 
Pmerems said:
(5'10"-Girl 20 yrs, she will fit, 6'5"-Boy 18 yrs still growing, 6'-Girl 16 yrs still growing, 6'4"-Boy 14 yrs still growing)

Paul
Click to expand...

paul what are you feeding them? i need some for mine :D
 
I was 10 years old the first time I bucked rivets. Inside the tail cone of a '65 Mooney. I was small enough to fit throught the battery hatch on left rear of the fuselage.

My older sons have helped with the 7. Invaluable.
 
7 year old helping

:) My son just turned 7 Friday and he helps all the time. He has learned so much from this project. It sometimes takes longer but it's well worth it. I have photos and memories that will last forever. It will also be his RV one day.
 
Great thread. Pics and remembering back...

Our daughter (now in 6th grade :( ) use to help me all the time building Flash. She really enjoyed using a little brush to clean up the aluminum shavings. I have a great pic of her at home using a pneumatic cleco tool on the wing - it was great to be able to say "move all those clecos one hole" while drilling the wing <g>. Man, seeing these makes me feel old!

b,
dr

Wing_Audrey_Brushing_Spars.gif

at 4yrs old.

Audrey_Fuse.jpg

at 5yrs old...
 
Well I have almost finished building my -7A and I just had this little varmint. Guess its time to start the planning on building another...

-Jeff

NEWJEFF%20144.jpg
 
helpers....

well, he's not a kid, but my 88 year old father likes to help me. problem is, he's legally blind. it was a gradual sort of thing, and when i was on the wings, he bucked rivets for me just fine. on the center fuse section, he missed with the bucking bar about 10 percent of the time, and i have some nice dings on the center fuse.

so, i haven't let him buck since then. but i can tell you this, nobody can edge finish any better than he can. and i think i'll just leave the dings in the center skin -- it's not an airworthiness issue, they're not normally visible on the ground (unless you squat/bend down), and it's a reminder of some good times spent with my father. did i mention he'll be 89 next month?
 
johnp said:
well, he's not a kid, but my 88 year old father likes to help me. problem is, he's legally blind. it was a gradual sort of thing, and when i was on the wings, he bucked rivets for me just fine. on the center fuse section, he missed with the bucking bar about 10 percent of the time, and i have some nice dings on the center fuse.
Click to expand...
My father helped buck the top rear skin on the fuselage as well as other stuff. He passed away about two years ago and I won't remove the dents he helped with - he always talked about how neat it would be to fly with me in it when it was done but I've taken too long...:(
 
What Jim said

I don't have kids yet, but I did try to sneak into the learn to rivet kids classes at Oshkosh. They didn't buy the idea I was a kid, but it was still neat to watch.

On a side note, Avery tools donated their tools and Vans (I think) provided the sheet metal.
 
wait just a minute

dougs got a pnuematic cleco tool but not wouldnt buy a pnuematic squeezer again. come on. :rolleyes:
love seeing the kids. esp jeffs newborn. i know some say nothing compares to flying your own plane but really, nothing compares to being a new parent and letting that little one cling to you. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.