O

Ola

Active Member
Hey all!

I'm a 25 year old Norwegian with distant dreams of building a kitplane. It's quite far off for now, I'm probably 3 years at best from the first order but I have no rush.

For now I've "decided" on a Deltahawk powered -8, mostly for the sake of research. It's easier to learn about the process when you have something specific to base it on. Jet A1 is about half the price of 100LL over here and there will hopefully be a decent selection of relevant engines by the time I'm ready to order, in addition to the engines themselves having proved/disproved themselves in use.

But there are other things to consider, which I hope you guys can help me out with.

Hangar space is not easily available where I live. Although solutions are possible, off-field transport might be a big factor in my decision. Thus the questions is about RV wing removal. Van's mentions on their site that while the wings can be removed for the occasional transport, it should not be considered trailerable which is understandable.

What are the most critical aspects of removing the wings? What are the the things that are most likely to break/fail? Is there anything that can be done differently in construction to make removal/assembly safer?

I am not talking about a trailerable solution, more like removal for transport and storage from two to six times pr year. It's strange that all the glassfiber trailerable kits seem to be $10K more and 20 knots slower. :D (Glassfiber is not something I want to deal with, because I'll likely have a workspace with little temp control and the half finished kit might be sitting idle for months while I deal with other things)

Are there any gotchas in winter storage? (apart from engine)

And a question for any Europeans, what are the best places for professional paint? I've heard the Czechs and Poles do great work for decent sums.

I've considered my first long distance trip with a paintshop destination in mind, anything to think about here? I've seen many unpainted RVs in photos so I assume the first 50 hours or so without paint will be just fine.

I have tons of questions regarding national stuff, but I've already been in contact with the national EAA. I'll join them some time this year and try to attend a fly-in. (I'll be arriving in a multi-million dollar airliner, not sure how impressed they will be. :D )

Thanks for any input!
 
Not easy to remove wings

I would not recommend planning on removing the wings more than a few times. Each time you take them off and put them back on you are scuffing up the finish on the spars and the spar box. Eventually there will be damage, and this is a very critical area. I live in Switzerland and seriously considered removing the wings as well, since hangars are *very* hard to find here.

About the paint - I'm also looking at the Czech guys for my paint. I also found a very reasonably priced painter down in the south of France. I don't recall his name, or the name of his company, but I have a card somewhere. He is based at the airport in Lezignan-Corbieres (LFMZ). I've signed up with Scheme Designers, and he knows some good painting people in Europe, so when the time comes (this year, I hope!) I'll check back with him to get a good recommendation.

BTW, the Canadians fly in the winter, and I'll bet it's about as cold in Canada as it is in Norway. If you want an engine that will start easily in the winter, you should talk to your compatriot, Jan Eggenfellner. http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/
 
Thanks! I guess my time is better spent researching storage facilities, a possible solution is to store it somewhere else in the country during the worst months (Oct-Feb) if it turns out to be cost effective. Another thing is of course good weather resistant covers for prolonged outdoor storage, any tips here?

By the way, I really enjoy your website and I've learned a lot from it, thanks!

As for engine choice, I've read a lot about the Egg Subaru including the Yahoo list and it seems like a great package. But fuel cost is very high on my list of priorities and the cost of mogas in the third largest oil exporter in the world is a sad story. :rolleyes:

The final decision is years away of course, so for now it's just open ended research. Websites like yours, Lervold, Checkoway and this forum has been great for both learning and entertainment!
 
Some thoughts on removing wings as a recurring activity

I believe it is something that could be planned for and designed around if that is the only way you could have an RV. Some thoughts:

Buy a kit that does not tie the main landing gear to the wing spar - the tail draggers (conventional gear) use the engine mount as the landing gear attach point. This will allow the rest of the airplane to stand normally when the wing bolts are removed.

I went through the wing installation and removal a couple of times during the build of our RV-6A so I know it is doable but it required several days to get the bolts back in the close tolerance holes. If you are a mechanical engineer and you are going to do this you should evaluate this part of the design very carefully - for many reasons, including safety and efficiency.

Make the flaps easily removable while the wing is installed - plan an efficient way to access and remove the hinge pin.

Use electrical connectors at the wing/fuselage interface to facilitate the disconnection and assure proper circuit connection when the wings are reinstalled.

Pitot, fuel and vent lines should have flexible hoses or suitably configured tubes in the joint area to connect between connectors on the wing root and connectors hard mounted in the fuselage side - don't just route the tubing through a grommeted hole in the fuselage side. Right angle connectors really shine in these applications.

No help really but your plight got me thinking and I had to share my thoughts with you. I suspect if you pull this off your experience may be in demand by others in similar situations. I would not want to have to do it but I wish you good luck if you take this expensive and risky task forward.
 
Thanks Bob, that's interesting.

I hear high quality quick-connectors (for pitot, fuel, vent and fuel return in case of a Deltahawk engine) are very expensive, but I guess that would be the least of my worries. The electrical should be simple enough.

What about the spars and spar box? Is it possible to coat the surface of either with something without changing the design in any big way? How tight is the fit?

I'm thinking a plastic of some kind that will a) protect the surface, b) tolerate the wear and c) serve as an indicator of wear (similar to two coats of paint of different hardness, one white for cover and one red for "repair me!").

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have some mechanical background and I definately have the time. :)

Best case scenario is of course getting proper storage for a reasonable price, the jury is still out on that one. What are your thoughts on long term outdoor storage (not in winter)? In addition to canopy/vent/pitot covers I guess I could get a company to make a custom cover for the entire frame. In addition I could get four pounds of those little silica gel bags you get when you buy shoes to suck up any moisture inside. :D
 
You are on your own if you go forward with this

On my RV-6A the is no "spar box" in the sense that the spars plug into a rectangular housing. The main spars are built-up of many pieces - think of a capital "I" cut vertically down the center leaving one side flat and the other side has the two ridges protruding horizontally forward from the top and bottom edge. There is a bulkhead at the front of the seat below the thighs of the occupants that is flat on the forward surface. The bottom of this bulkhead has a very shallow "V" shape conforming to the wing dihedral. The main spars extend out of the wings sufficient to extend to the middle of the fuselage where they butt together and leave a few inches of exposed interface area between the wing and the fuselage for interfacing systems (fuel, lights, pitot, etc.). There are four thick steel splice plates that extend across the butt interface at the top & bottom and front & back. There are many large close tolerance bolts that go through the sandwich of steel splice plate, bulkhead, spar and steel splice plate. There are also many regular AN3 and AN4 bolts the go through the spar and bulkhead assembly. The spar installation into the fuselage initially seems like a tricky job but if you are very careful and set up some good support system that you can shim with some precision and still offer protection for the wing surfaces it goes together in a way that inspires confidence that it is truely a well engineered airplane. Then you have to put in the bolts - I cannot overstate how tremendously difficult this is but if you build a tail dragger it should be simpler (barely possible comes to mind). I used sacrificial bolts some with half ground off and others ground to a point in some of the non-precision (AN3 & AN4) holes to get some kind of alignment (and all of the holes align very well). This makes it possible to get the close tolerance bolts installed but they need to be lublicated, the holes often need to be reamed (to take care of miner imperfections in hole edges in the layers of metal to be joined) and it still takes a good arm and plastic mallet to get them in. It is so hard that the visualization of each bolt end as it penetrates the last joint layer gives you a feeling of great accomplishment. By the end you are feeling pretty good about yourself as an airplane builder. It took me three or four days each time. Clearly it is not something that you want to do repeatedly. I did it because my wife wanted her side of the garage back - somethings are just more important than builders convenience.

As far as covers are concerned "Bruce's Custom Covers" at 989 E. California Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94086, Phone 408-738-3959, FAX 408-738-2729, e-mail [email protected], http://wwwaircraftcovers.com provided my canopy cover which I use when traveling. It is outstanding!!! The company custom makes the covers and they provide covers for the entire aircraft. I do not know how they would hold up to harsh long winters but you should ask them. If it will work this is better than pulling the wings off every year (ARGH!).

Again, Good luck

Bob Axsom
 
Thanks! I had a little trouble visualizing what you described but after browsing a few worklogs I see what you mean.

I think I should mess as little as possible with this section and try to plan as best I can for fixed storage.

Outdoor parking would only be in the flying season, for winter storage I would fly it to the most suitable area (i.e. cheapest indoor rental) and leave it there for the worst months. (Oct/Nov -> Feb/Mar)

As mentioned it's still a long time until I start on such a project. I might consider strategic relocation if the job market permits!
 
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