G

Greg G

Member
I'm sure I'm going to break some etiquette with this one, but here goes. As I sit here in a commercial airport wasting hours away awaiting my air coach, I daydream about some day building an RV-10. My initial thoughts are that I'd use it to make trips every few months or so to take a family vacation, but reality tells me that that's not too much flying for $200k of hard-earned money and about 2000 hrs of my time (I expect to be involved with the usual family activities on most weekends such as kids' sports, housework, etc.). Not to mention this isn't good for piston aircraft that perform best when flown at a reasonable rate. When I owned a Grumman Tiger I had 3 other partners, so we were able to keep the plane flying at least once every 2 weeks. Without considering partners due to concerns about being sued if something ever went catastrophically wrong during flight, what kind of flying are those of you with young kids able to get in to justify the huge investment that this is? Thanks!
 
How do you justify passion?

I can not justify my RV9A from a dollars and cents point of view. Maybe not even a "time saved" travel point of view.

But I can tell you that building and flying MY airplane is one of the most satisfying and pleasant experiences in my life. One that I will treasure until the end of my days.

If you want it and can afford it, do it. You won't be sorry.
 
Just my $.02...

A lot of us went through the 2-place vs. 4-place question and settled on the 2-place for exactly the reasons you mention. It's hard to justify the -10 when, for the vast majority of flying, a 2-place is sufficient. On the rare occasion that you need 4 seats, rent it. Not ideal, of course, but you'll save a ton of money this way. Remember, all else equal, the -10 is going to cost WAY more than a 2-place, particularly because of the engine and type of prop needed.

If you fly as little as your post suggests, it sounds like aircraft ownership may be questionable period.

Good luck with your decision.
 
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I always seem to be one seat behind. I had (and still have) a single seater before I met my wife, then started the RV-7 prior to having kid #1. Based on that logic I'm not about to start a -10. Man, I'll end up a set of twins.

Seriously, you'll never justify this endeavor and it will never make sense. I assume that I'll take trips with my boy or my wife on occasion, but it's probably just going to me me on most flights. Although the family vacation thing seems like a good plan, I'm not sure how realistic it is. I actually thought that one day I may just buy a Navion for that purpose if I really had the need. But at this time, I'm just not seeing it.
 
No justification needed

My wife loves to fly.

She makes more money than I do.

She wanted the 10.

I am smart enough-----at least sometimes:D------to not argue with her.

Need I say more????
 
I have to ditto Duane; I can't justify my 9A in dollars. I can't even justify flying!! But it is what I love to do. The 9A was within my means (barely) and is actually a little cheaper than renting. But flying a plane that I built, that will blow the wings off of almost anything else I could even rent--nothing can top that. I will admit that I thought that, if I needed a four place, I would rent one. I really don't have any desire to do that now. This is just too cool.

Truthfully, looking at the potential rewards of the eventual sale of a 10 MIGHT change your equation. Don't forget that.

Bob Kelly
 
A little more specific

Thanks for all the good info! I like... check that... love to fly -- that's not in question. And I'm pretty sure that by the time I'm ready to build I'll have enough money to fund the project. However, I'm not really creative at finding things to go do while flying if life doesn't give to traveling much with the family. What kind of stuff do you guys do while flying (when not building!)? $100 hamburger runs, take friends up for a tour, maintain proficiency, ??? This will help me in answering what Steve brought up -- will a 2-place give me what I need instead of a 4-place? Thanks for bearing with me -- I'm just trying to make sure I do what's right for my family and I so I don't end up causing major trauma with a project that I'll love!
 
The simple truth is that you can't justify it...but do it anyway.

Some of my most vivid childhood memories are of flying around the U.S.A., Canada, and Mexico on vacations in my parents 182. The memories will be priceless for both you and your kids...just do it.
 
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I see so many people pass up on their dreams because they can't "justify" it. Most of us that fly really can't justify our building or flying but it is good for the soul. Yes you have to weigh the pluses and minuses of your decisions and the affect on your family but if there is a slim chance you can do it go for the dream. When I get old I want to look back on my accomplishments and not kick myself in the *** for passing up something that I really wanted to do. There is nothing like building and flying your own creation. Don
 
Ditto on not being able to justify it. I went from a Cherokee 140 to a 65' Mooney C so the family could come more, lol. They didn't. We did have some very memorable trips though. Costs were astronomical compared to buying airline tickets. The last year I had the Mooney, they flew with me once in about 100 hours. That and an insane annual bill did it for me. With my RV-7, most of the time I'll have an extra seat, and that's ok. I don't have to justify it. I want to fly. No one in the family is sacrificing anything financially because I'm building a plane. :)
 
Can you justify anything? Can you justify buying a steak when hamburger helper will do? Coffee when water will do? My wife saw the light when my children started doing sports that required traveling all over the state of Georgia. Atlanta is an hour and half by plane, 4 plus hours by car. Her parents are 5 to 7 hours by car, 1.5 hours by plane (Tiger), 1 hour by RV-10. Naples, Florida (My parents) 8-10 hours by car 3-3.5 by Tiger, 2 hours by RV-10. If you don't go anywhere than yes there is absolutely no reason to build a -10. Get a -3 or a -4 and rent the four seater. A -10 is a very expensive toy for local flying. I wouldn't ignore the partnership though. Mine has worked well and has save me some money.
 
What kind of stuff do you guys do while flying (when not building!)?
Click to expand...

Kind of depends on where you're located. I have a small bi-plane that only does about 80MPH so I really don't cover much ground (but the RV is only months away from flying). A long cross country for me is Auburn, WA down to Scappoose, OR and back. Yup, meeting others for lunch somewhere is high on the list. Most of the time, I'm just heading out to patrol our Easter (King County) Front along the river valleys, maybe get down low and follow the rivers, go see the local waterfalls, fly over some friends, and if I'm lucky enough, maybe spot a circling Bald Eagle, then back for some touch & goes.

For me, I use my time in slipping the surley bonds to recharge my own brain cells. No thinking about work, honey-do's, or other stuff. It may sound goofy, but on those days with nice warm OAT, calm, smooth air and CAVU conditions, with all the Cascade and Olympic Mountains in view, the wind wistling by and the engine just humming along, a complete zen is within reach. I always liked the last line from The Christmas Story, "and all was right with the world." Can I justify this, nope. You just can't put a price tag on it.
 
This is what I have done so far

2004:
- Completed 25 hour test requirement at Lake Skinner north of Mt. Palamore, California. Worked through two serious problems with the engine.
- Took my wife on a flight to the test area to show where I had been flying
- Local flights in Los Angeles area.
- Retired from JPL and flew the plane to our new home in Arkansas
- Flew Young Eagles with EAA Chapter 732 at Bentonville, AR
- Flew the area around Ft. Smith, AR for area familiarization
- Flew to the EAA 732 Christmas party at Huntsville, AR
- Flew to St. Louis for Christmas with Jeanine's brother
2005:
- Local Flights in northwest Arkansas area (including IFR practice)
- Flew to Ozark, AR to get the plane painted
- Twice flew to Walnut Ridge, AR for Lunch
- Flew to Los Angeles and back
- Flew to Sun 'n' Fun had plane judged - won nothing
- Flew to Bowling Green, KY to visit Corvette Factory and National Museum
- Flew to Rebel's Bluff, MO fly-in
- Flew to Gaston's in Arkansas for lunch
- Flew to New Orleans and back
- Flew to St. Louis for Muny Opera
- Flew to Dayton, OH
- Participated in the AirVenture Cup race from Dayton to Oshkosh and had plane judged at Oshkosh - won nothing
- Flew fron Oshkosh to Fayetteville, AR
- Flew to Barttlesville, OK for Fly-in - won nothing
- Flew to Santa Teresa, NM RV fly-in - won nothing
- Flew 12 Young Eagles
- Flew to Nashville, TN and attended the Grand old Opery
- Flew to Joplin and Neosho, MO for practice
- Flew to St. Louis for Christmas
2006:
- Flew two prospective RV-7 builders
- Flew to Little Rock, AR to visit the Clinton Library
- Flew to Ponca City, OK for EAA breakfast
- Flew to St. Augustine and Panama City Florida and return to FYV
- Flew to Alamogordo, NM to visit Trinity site
- Flew to Asheville, NC to see the Biltmore home and Ninston-Salem, NC to shop for furniture then return to FYV
- Flew to Sant Ynez, CA for Wine tasting tour and return to FYV
- Starting a continuing series of speed mods and test flights
- Flew to Dayton, OH
- Flew in AirVenture Cup Race to Oshkosh
- Flew from Oshkosh to FYV
- Flew to St. Louis for Muny Opera and Cardinal Baseball
- Flew to Memphis, TN visited Graceland
- Flew to Los Angeles and return to FYV
- Flew to Little Rock, AR to visit the Clinton Library
- Flew to Petit Jean, AR
- Flew to St. Louis for Christmas
2007:
- Flew many speed mod test flights including the development of new wing tips.
- Flew to Charleston, SC and return to FYV
- Flew to Neosho, MO twice
- Flew to Rebel's Bluff Fly-in but runway blocked returned to FYV
- Flew to Taylor, Texas for air race visited LBJ Museum in Austin
- Flew to San Louis Obispo, CA for Wire tour return to FYV
- Flew to Wichita, KS to fly in Wichita 300 Air Race and return to FYV - Won RV-Blue class
- Flew to Dayton, OH
- Flew in AirVenture Cup race from Dayton to Oshkosh
- Flew from Oshkosh to FYV
- Flew to New York City and return to FYV
- Flew to Memphis, TN and participated in the Memphis 100 - won RV-Blue class - met Ron Lee
- Flew to Taylor, Texas and participated in the Rocket 100 air race - second in the RV-blue class
- Flew to St. Louis for Christmas
2007:
- Flew to Baton Rouge, Louisiana
- Planning to fly to Hot Springs for the Oaklawn hourse racing this week

It just keeps going and it is GREAT!

Bob Axsom
 
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Bob, you missed an important point

You got to meet me at Memphis.

Being able to fly places and experience neat things in an RV.....priceless
 
It's what you make of it

Greg,
First of all, I haven't started building my -10 yet. But you pose a great question. I for one, fly professionally, and to be honest with you after 6-7 days and 20,000 air miles later I sometimes don't want to see a plane -yet fly one- when I get home.
BUT, when you wake up and see the weather is perfect VFR and just want to take the family out for a stroll in the RV and make a day of finding some place new. Or when vacation comes around and everyone standing in front of a map of the US, blindfolded, and pick a place to go. That is when it becomes so much fun. Or taking a spin in the plane at sunrise and watching that beautiful sun come up over the horizon. Or simply just seeing the world in a different view that 99.999% of the people on the face of the Earth will never get to see. AHHH, that is what makes flying so much fun! Yesterday I flew from SEA to BOS, and I did it in 4 hrs. Average gs was 620 knots. NOT BAD! of course that was in a 30 million dollar jet. But there are not too many people that can say they did that.
A couple of months ago, I flew from NYC to LON, put the plane to bed, went downtown and had dinner on the Thames. Went to bed and then flew back to NYC. How many people can say they can did that. 'eh?
Flying is what you make of it. Make it fun, and you will be rewarded with MANY,MANY memories! Oh, and don't forget the cameras- digital and video.
In my 19 years of flying, I have over 4,000 pictures and about 200 hours of video-flying all over the world! It is AWESOME!
Don't worry about the money, 'cause when you get hooked, you will find ways to make flying work and spending time with the family fun and rewarding all at the same time.

Go get 'em and have fun at it!
Steve
 
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