Allen231ah

Allen231ah

Well Known Member
Just ordered a SA100H smoke system for my -8:D. I have an O360 with a CS prop,the battery is installed in the back. I?m a little heavy up front as it is. Any recommendations for installation, front or back baggage area?
 
Can't help

Allen, I cannot provide an answer, but am interested in the same. What prop do you have? Metal? Composite? Dual Mags? I am still building and can tweak lots of things. I haven't decided on smoke yet, but in planning for it down the road....I would like to make the provision now.

As I am not yet flying, the following is my opinion. Those with installed flying systems, should be trusted long before me.
As a manner of practicality, it has to be filled. If equipped,the external filler extension must be mounted on a flat surface. So, if it's fwd baggage, you'll have to fill through the door with no extension. I would expect some spillage. If rear, better for weight anyway, it could be installed with the external neck mounted to the fuselage side, eliminating spills from filling.
 
It might be worth to drop a call to my buddy John Manduca, who owns "Smoking Airplanes". His number is 661-713-9050, and tell him J.D. told you to call.
 
vmirv8bldr said:
Allen, I cannot provide an answer, but am interested in the same. What prop do you have? Metal? Composite? Dual Mags? I am still building and can tweak lots of things. I haven't decided on smoke yet, but in planning for it down the road....I would like to make the provision now.

As I am not yet flying, the following is my opinion. Those with installed flying systems, should be trusted long before me.
As a manner of practicality, it has to be filled. If equipped,the external filler extension must be mounted on a flat surface. So, if it's fwd baggage, you'll have to fill through the door with no extension. I would expect some spillage. If rear, better for weight anyway, it could be installed with the external neck mounted to the fuselage side, eliminating spills from filling.
Click to expand...

Bart,I have a mag on the L and Lightspeed Plasma II on the R . The prop is a Hartzell 72inch CS and O360A1A from Van's . I am happy with this setup, I think if I had it to do over I would go with the BPE IO390 ,,,,,now that would be cool.
 
Smoke

I just picked up a 2x4' sheet of 5052 to build my smoke tank. Going to install it in the lower front baggage compartment. Looks like I should have around 3.27 gallons available. BTW have the Barrett Percision Engines AEIO 390 X.... w/a 3 blade MT, and it's great!! Allen Barrett even drove up from OK to KC MO for our first engine run, they are absolutly great people.
 
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Allen231ah said:
Just ordered a SA100H smoke system for my -8:D. I have an O360 with a CS prop,the battery is installed in the back. I?m a little heavy up front as it is. Any recommendations for installation, front or back baggage area?
Click to expand...


Allen,

I have put my smoke tank up front and believe that is the preferred location. The front baggage compartment is much closer to the center of gravity and therefore will not have as great effect on CG as a rear baggage compartment location. Additionally, a full oil tank in front can be ballanced with a much smaller ballast in the rear. The RV-8 seldom suffers from too much weight, but due to the tandem seating arrangement the CG often becomes an issue when loading the rear seat and baggage compartment.

I have placed my smoke tank on the far left side of the front compartment. The filler is slightly obscurred by the aircraft structure but there is enough room to fit a filler nozzle in there. You could move the tank closer to the center to make filling easier at the cost of a few inches of baggage space.
 
Others make them removable....

....with either quick disconnects or a 90* valve . When you're taking your SO on a cross-country someplace, you don't really need smoke. That's what we're doing with a -7A going together.

Regards,
 
I've been through this RV-8 smoke system forward or back debate with someone in the UK ;)

The answer to me would rely on "when" / "what" the smoke system is for. If it was for proper display work, which by most definitions requires you to fly minimum crew i.e. solo, and that display is aerobatic, then it really has to go in the back. Reason(s) The RV-8 (as any aircraft) gets heavy on the controls with a forward CG, so the Smoke system would oppose that. This assumes that when not displaying and, say flying dual / carrying baggage, the tank is empty, and maybe even parts of the system are removed.

If, OTOH, you mostly fly dual, smoke or no smoke, forward might best for reasons stated above i.e. less effect on CG.

Andy Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
 
RV-6 Tank Location

A fellow builder made this tank for me. It holds a little over 2 gallons.
IMG_0534.jpg
 
RV-8 Smoke System

Hi Allen

Unable to directly help you as you have a battery in the rear so I post this to help others. I was the "someone in the UK" Andy referred to in his previous post and I have taken his advice for the reasons he listed.

I am awaiting modifiaction approval from the UK auhtority of a tank that I plan to attach to a modified rear battery tray. This will be custom made along the same design as the wing tank and will have an access door on the right fuselage skin to reach the quick connect fitting for filling/draining it will also serve as an inspection port for the tank & pitch servo.

I will buy the "everything but the tank" kit from Smoking Airplanes and John has been most helpful with any inquiries - the kit also appears to be very professional in every sense.

If I use the tank as a ballast for aerobatic competitions (no smoke) then if I need to carry a rear seater my plan will be to pump the contents of the tank to the exhaust, or drain, and collect in a plastic container that will fit into the forward baggage bay.

I chose the rear battery location because it is a strong point and will not compromise baggage space or contaminate the baggage bay. It will hold about 12-13 litres - enough for about 4 mins smoke which should be OK.

I will post the details (photo/drawings/mod proposal) on my website on the Mods page later in April, as I am away from home.

Bob Ellis
Fuselage kit - 30% complete
www.rv-8.co.uk
 
Smoke System in the rear cargo.

I installed my smoke system in the rear cargo compartment. Works great.

IMG_0146.jpg

IMG_0038.jpg
 
Andy Hill said:
I've been through this RV-8 smoke system forward or back debate with someone in the UK ;)

The answer to me would rely on "when" / "what" the smoke system is for. If it was for proper display work, which by most definitions requires you to fly minimum crew i.e. solo, and that display is aerobatic, then it really has to go in the back. Reason(s) The RV-8 (as any aircraft) gets heavy on the controls with a forward CG, so the Smoke system would oppose that. This assumes that when not displaying and, say flying dual / carrying baggage, the tank is empty, and maybe even parts of the system are removed.

If, OTOH, you mostly fly dual, smoke or no smoke, forward might best for reasons stated above i.e. less effect on CG.

Andy Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
Click to expand...

Andy,

I respectfully disagree. I use the smoke system when flying formation and in this instance it is preferable to have the CG more foreward as this lessens the sensitivity of the elevator, making formation flight much easier and definitely more pleasurable. I also use the smoke system during solo aerobatics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFAIvw6_82c

I would hesitate to do aerobatics with the GC anywhere near Van's published aerobatic limit. That is a mater of safety.

As I mentioned before, with the smoke tank in the front baggage compartment it is easy to adjust the CG with balast in the rear compartment in order to put the CG right where you want it. This is not so easy with the tank in the rear baggage compartment.
 
Cool video!

Ron,
Good input. That's an interesting perspective on formation flying, which I plan to do with my ship. I did notice you have a 200WW vs the Hartzell which might affect the results of putting the tank up front vs the rear.
I have no experience with this and I'm still looking at my options on this issue.
Regards,
 
Hi Ron...
I respectfully disagree. I use the smoke system when flying formation and in this instance it is preferable to have the CG more foreward as this lessens the sensitivity of the elevator, making formation flight much easier and definitely more pleasurable
Click to expand...
No problems... we each have our priorities and preferences ;)

In addition, as the last post says, it depends on where your Basic CG is. Ours is 78.59". I have no hesitation myself at flying aerobatics at the Van's aft (aeros) limit but, as you say, you need to be aware of the consequences. The RV altogether is not a good aerobatics trainer (low VA, too slippery), and less so as CG goes aft. But that also means it is more fun to fly :)

Formation Aerobatics highlights to me the problem further... when you're now pulling up for loops at, say, 190K rather than 140K. It was both tiring / a lot of effort to "pull", both as lead and #2, which affects smoothness. The "ballast" I now carry reduces that effort considerably :) See Link / Link 2 / Link 3

Andy
RV-8 G-HILZ
 
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