[Stewie]

Hi All-
I am hoping I can get some feedback on my panel. I have read through many VAF posts, product websites, and spoken with my CFI but feel some additional input would be helpful. I am installing a Skyview in my RV4 and need to complement that with a radio and nav. I would like to have some IFR capabilities so that I can practice certain (but not necessarily all) types of approaches but true IFR-legal flight is not a necessity. I have been flying one year/200 hours but have not yet started IFR training so please be patient if my understanding of IFR avionics is incorrect. I plan to begin IFR/CFI training later this year.

Here are my options, as I see them in order of increasing cost (prices are approximates for used stuff). I can afford any particular combination, but I'd like some opinions on the pros/cons of each option.

1. Skyview + Dynon GPS ($700) + ICOM a210 ($1200)
2. Skyview + Dynon GPS ($700) + Garmin SL30 ($2800)
3. Skyview + 429arincMod ($500) + Garmin 430 ($5000)
4. Skyview + 429arincMod ($500) + Garmin 430W ($6500)

Note: I realize option 1 has no IFR capabilities, but the Dynon GPS uses WAAS even if it is not WAAS-certified. If I just want to go practice approaches on a sunny day, would the Dynon GPS (or 430 non-WAAS) be acceptable/safe/legal?

 

[flyinga]

Go for option 4

You may in the future want to use your 4 for legal IFR flying. The 430, although IFR legal, is no longer supported by Garmin; it can be upgraded to a 430W for (I believe) $2500. The 430W is still supported nad probably will be for the forseeable future.

My $.02

 

[airguy]

I'm installing option 4, because like you I'm about to start my IFR ticket and I want to be able to shoot GPS approaches (legally).

Also - I heard through the grapevine (rumor - don't know this for a fact) that the Garmin factory expects to run out of new 430W units in 45-60 days at current rates and that's all she wrote. I got my new one in the mail a couple weeks ago. The will continue to support them, just won't build any more new ones.

 

[RV10Rob]

The 430, although IFR legal, is no longer supported by Garmin

That's not true, unless something changed in the last few weeks. Garmin will still repair and you can still get database updates for the non-WAAS 430s. I think the only exception is that Garmin won't repair the original 24v-only 430s now.

-Rob

 

[Ron Lee]

Will you be able to find a CFII to train you in the RV-4 or will you use another aircraft?

Legal (and probably safe) eliminates Option 1 in my bubba opinion.

 

[RV8R999]

Hi All-
I am hoping I can get some feedback on my panel. I have read through many VAF posts, product websites, and spoken with my CFI but feel some additional input would be helpful. I am installing a Skyview in my RV4 and need to complement that with a radio and nav. I would like to have some IFR capabilities so that I can practice certain (but not necessarily all) types of approaches but true IFR-legal flight is not a necessity. I have been flying one year/200 hours but have not yet started IFR training so please be patient if my understanding of IFR avionics is incorrect. I plan to begin IFR/CFI training later this year.

Here are my options, as I see them in order of increasing cost (prices are approximates for used stuff). I can afford any particular combination, but I'd like some opinions on the pros/cons of each option.

1. Skyview + Dynon GPS ($700) + ICOM a210 ($1200)
2. Skyview + Dynon GPS ($700) + Garmin SL30 ($2800)
3. Skyview + 429arincMod ($500) + Garmin 430 ($5000)
4. Skyview + 429arincMod ($500) + Garmin 430W ($6500)

Note: I realize option 1 has no IFR capabilities, but the Dynon GPS uses WAAS even if it is not WAAS-certified. If I just want to go practice approaches on a sunny day, would the Dynon GPS (or 430 non-WAAS) be acceptable/safe/legal?

You won't really be able to shoot a true GPS approach (even for practice) with option 1 for two reason:

1. Dynon doesn't have an approach database (I suppose you could build the approach as a flight plan though)
Don't underestimate the training required to properly load and configure for a GPS approach in certified equipment - it isn't trivial, especially given the likely changes you receive during actual approaches (vectors, procedure turns, holding, etc..) Flying the approach is the easy part, ensuring you know how to load, configure and manage the system during the approach is more difficult (IMHO).

but more importantly

2. You will not get the auto CDI scale changes which are part of certified GPS approaches.

GPS approaches, unlike VOR/LOC, use cross track error to drive the CDI deflection. The cross track error doesn't get more sensitive as you fly closer to the station (like most VOR approaches and all LOC approaches do) therefore an approved GPS approach increases the CDI sensitivity (reduces the scale) as you fly closer to the runway ensuring you remain within the approved final approach corridor.

While you could still simulate a GPS approach with your option 1 you will not really be practicing with any relevance toward gaining experience needed to shoot a true IFR GPS approach.

 

[AaronG]

It all depends on how you want to use the plane. If you want to get your IFR rating in your plane, option 1 is out. It doesn't have the approaches, and you will not be able to take your check ride in a vfr only airplane. Could you use it to shoot an approach in an emergency ... Yes, but it would not be easy.

I got my ifr rating in my plane with option 2. Right after that, I installed an ifr gps, and wished I had gone with option 4 from the start. Over time, the VORs and localizers are disappearing as they break and don't get fixed. GPS is the replacement. The GPS gives you significantly more options especially at small airports. So option 3 will give you significantly more capability.

Option 4 will give you lower approach minimums for gps approaches (LPV approaches). In many cases these approaches have similar minimums to the ILS approach (200 ft and half mile vis). If you never plan to fly serious IFR, this is probably overkill. You may want to check the approaches at your home airport to see if there are lpv approaches, as this is the most likely place you would use the lower minimums in a pinch.

Aaron

 

[BobTurner]

Forget #1
#2 will work but for an ILS (which you will need to do for your flight test) you will need to be able to ID the FAF or OuterMarker. Some approaches now use a VOR fix to determine the FAF, if so, you're all set since the SL-30 can read out a VOR radial at the same time it tracks a localizer. Otherwise, MB receivers are about $500 if you don't have one. I doubt you want to put in an ADF. But note,it is not uncommon for an ILS to have a note "ADF required". If that's the way it is at your home airport, then you'll need an ADF or a certified GPS.
#3 is cheaper than #4 but you loose capability. Not just the LPV approaches, but also operationally they come under different rules. If you have #3, non-WAAS, then if an alternate airport is required it is also required that it have a non-GPS approach that you can do. And you can't legally depart IFR if the VOR isn't working or hasn't been checked in 30 days, since non-WAAS are not approved as "sole source". None of these restrictions apply to #4 (WAAS).