R

ron sterba

Well Known Member
I have two Skyviews in panel. I installed the servos for the auto-pilot.(pitch and roll)I started building with manual trim cable in place but now that Dynon came out with the separate Auto-pilot control module. It would mean cutting another hole in my panel.(not a big deal) Looking at the pictures of the Dynon autopilot module it shows buttons for up-down trim. Do I scrap the manual trim cable and go with the motorized pitch trim. (Not planning a roll trim).

Dynon's website shows two auto-pilot modules.
One is simple. Baro,heading,course and altitude hold.

Second one has more buttons, rnav,vnav,trim up & down. So is this second module for planes with a certified WAAS navigator (like Garmin430-ish) connected to the Skyview? or just power trim. I don't plan on a WAAS navigator, just the Dynon GPS Skyview. So if you can guide me here I would appreciate that. Which module should I buy? what are the advantages or lack of for a VFR pilot. Should (RV9A) be flying in the next two months.

Ron in Oregon.
 
Hi Ron,

The second panel is simply an auto-pilot controller. Rather then digging through the SV AP menus, you have dedicated buttons. I fly IFR/IMC with the SV menu and have no problems, although it does require repetitive use to maintain comfort with all the switchology - I will fly a full approach including missed and holding (under VFR) about once every 2 weeks or so.

I would definitely like to install the other panel as I only have one screen and would like to dedicate knobs for baro/hdg.

For VFR only, I don't see a necessity at all, but if I were building I would still install the panel if room was no issue. It is small, relatively inexpensive, and is a nice addition.
 
I believe I also read that the autopilot has 2 levels of operation. Expert and Simplified. The extra panel uses the Expert mode. Still sounds like a good idea!

Bob
 
I would recommend electric trim. I have manual trim in my RV-9A and it was a problem when flying formation. I moved the knob up to just below the throttle, which helps but electric is better.

If you want auto-trim, you have a couple of choices: The Dynon autopilot module (takes panel space), or I am currently flight testing an external auto-trim controller for the SkyView. It's based on this. It's currently flying in my HR-II.

For the roll axis only, auto-trim is overkill. If you add the pitch servo, which is highly recommended, then it makes sense. Even if you don't think you want the pitch servo, put the hard-point in and prewire for it... then it's easier later on to install it.
 
vlittle said:
I would recommend electric trim. I have manual trim in my RV-9A and it was a problem when flying formation. I moved the knob up to just below the throttle, which helps but electric is better.

If you want auto-trim, you have a couple of choices: The Dynon autopilot module (takes panel space), or I am currently flight testing an external auto-trim controller for the SkyView. It's based on this. It's currently flying in my HR-II.

For the roll axis only, auto-trim is overkill. If you add the pitch servo, which is highly recommended, then it makes sense. Even if you don't think you want the pitch servo, put the hard-point in and prewire for it... then it's easier later on to install it.
Click to expand...

Vern - now you've got my attention - are you saying you are in the process of developing an auto-trim system to work with the Dynon AP, without the dedicated autopilot panel module?
 
vlittle said:
If you want auto-trim, you have a couple of choices: The Dynon autopilot module (takes panel space)
Click to expand...

Even though I wish it was auto-trim, I'm pretty sure the AP module only acts as a trim controller, not auto trim for the AP.
 
airguy said:
Vern - now you've got my attention - are you saying you are in the process of developing an auto-trim system to work with the Dynon AP, without the dedicated autopilot panel module?
Click to expand...

Yes, flying with it now. Just adding a UI to allow field-tweaking of parameters. If you are at Osh, find MakerPlane to discuss availability. A released version probably won't make it Osh and it's hard to demo in a ground display.

It's a dual-axis speed scheduled auto-trim controller. Auto-trim will only work with SkyView serial output, but most all of the other functions work with or without an EFIS. For speed scheduling, an external airspeed or flaps switch can be used. If you have a G3X or SkyView connected, the serial stream airspeed info will eliminate the cost and effort of wiring an external switch.

Cheers,
 
vlittle said:
Yes, flying with it now. Just adding a UI to allow field-tweaking of parameters. If you are at Osh, find MakerPlane to discuss availability. A released version probably won't make it Osh and it's hard to demo in a ground display.

It's a dual-axis speed scheduled auto-trim controller. Auto-trim will only work with SkyView serial output, but most all of the other functions work with or without an EFIS. For speed scheduling, an external airspeed or flaps switch can be used. If you have a G3X or SkyView connected, the serial stream airspeed info will eliminate the cost and effort of wiring an external switch.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

I'm definitely interested in this - please keep us updated, I want one.
 
Just ordered my knob and button panels a couple days ago for my manual trim 7. The button panel does not control the trim. The UP and DOWN buttons are for increasing or decreasing the vertical speed, same as the buttons on the display. Auto trim is a completely separate function, another set of wires on a different sub-D connector. If you have electric trim, the control wiring can be routed through the Skyview for a few added functions as well as auto trim (auto trim is not yet a functional thing). Yes they show an example with two sets of knobs and buttons but it is not needed--unless you want to provide a second pilot with their own full set.
 
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And to complete the system functionality, as I have been flying this system for a couple of months now :D

The best thing you can do is fit electric trim. If you buy the two new knob and button panels, and I would if I were you (anyone) as it is truly what the Dr ordered, and wire the trim to be controlled via the button panel.

You still need the trim buttons on your stick of course. But the runaway trim protection and the soon to be released Auto Trim feature will make it a perfect integrated solution.

I have flown about 15-20 hours on this new system and it works REALLY well.

Pics for those who have not seen them yet. ;)

SkyviewInstall_zpsb0482018.jpg


Onto another topic, and I am sure many will understand this but do not use VS mode for climbs, or only if it is a small gentle change. Best to use IAS mode which means you will not have reducing IAS as you climb. Use VS on descent and watch your IAS.

And the trip home yesterday afternoon was this, nicely trimmed, 10dF LOP ignore the Dynon saying PK, it was not at peak, the richest was 10dF LOP, and while surfing some gentle and smooth oscillations from the high speed westerly the TAS picked up 6 knots and GS over 200. This new Skyview with AP controls is brilliant. Just waiting for the Auto Trim update!
A100TAS17042LPH_zps3fcaaa71.jpg
 
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Gentleman, great insight forming here. I appreciate the dialog and will just buy the Baro, hdg crs and alt module for now. Ill leave room for the other module. Sounds like I will dump the manual trim cable and go with the power trim. It will give me another set of pass-thru holes in the floor ribs for wires. Yeah Vern keep us up dated for sure. I think Vansairforce (Doug of course) should open a forum section and archive for Skyview system questions and solutions. After all our amature built industry is headed for the EFIS display systems. The future is now and is changing FAST! Example my friend is building a RV9A and started the instrument panel first with steam gauges and now its all obsolete (according to him) and will yank it all out and start with a new sheet of aluminum.

Thanks to all ,say Vern when you get updates could you find this post and continue on it.

Ron in Oregon
 
vlittle said:
Yes, flying with it now. Just adding a UI to allow field-tweaking of parameters. If you are at Osh, find MakerPlane to discuss availability. A released version probably won't make it Osh and it's hard to demo in a ground display.

It's a dual-axis speed scheduled auto-trim controller. Auto-trim will only work with SkyView serial output, but most all of the other functions work with or without an EFIS. For speed scheduling, an external airspeed or flaps switch can be used. If you have a G3X or SkyView connected, the serial stream airspeed info will eliminate the cost and effort of wiring an external switch.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Well folks, the auto-trim controller is now production released, see this. I've been flying this for a while now and I consider it essential equipment. Autopilots are supposed to reduce workload, but constant trim correction callouts from the EFIS are annoying and distracting.

This is especially a problem when you select on the autopilot when leveling off after takeoff to tidy up the cockpit. Normally, the speed is still stabilizing after power changes and you need to dial in continuous trim adjustments until the aircraft settles. Especially pronounced in the Rocket.

With auto-trim, I can just worry about dialing in my RPM and MAP, and the trim will follow as required. When you release the autopilot to hand fly and have some fun, you are in perfect trim. Ditto for fuel imbalances.

This project has been one of the most gratifying that I've done. It really has made my flying more enjoyable and relaxing.
 
Every Dynon needs this controller for AUTO TRIM.

Vern, thanks! I believe that this controller will be the basis for years to come.!!!! I can't say anymore except that Ill be buying one!

Thanks for the website feed!

Ron in Oregon

Say hi to Mr. Marshall and Woodall back there in Ontario! Its not far in a RV to your place.

What booth are you in at Oshkosh?
 
ron sterba said:
Vern, thanks! I believe that this controller will be the basis for years to come.!!!! I can't say anymore except that Ill be buying one!

Thanks for the website feed!

Ron in Oregon

Say hi to Mr. Marshall and Woodall back there in Ontario! Its not far in a RV to your place.

What booth are you in at Oshkosh?
Click to expand...

Thanks, Ron. Unfortunately, I live in Victoria BC even though MakerPlane is in Ottawa. Long distance relationship!

I wasn't able to make it to Oshkosh this year... I have several local start-ups needing my help this summer. However, John Nicol, pres of MakerPlane is there carrying the load.

The auto-trim controller and it's variants have been a blast to develop because of the immediate noticeable benefits. I've burned a lot of avgas in flight testing, but that's part of the enjoyment. The are a lot of widgets out there, including some that I have developed, that are 'nice to have'... But these trim controllers are pretty close to 'essential equipment' in my opinion.

For the DIY crowd, much of the stuff I designed is available as open-source hardware. The devices with microcontrollers in them can be programmed to do a lot of functions. In fact, I used a trim controller, reprogrammed to build the proto versions of my stick shaker. The stick shaker final design is also open source, so if anyone needs a small, general purpose controller that can sniff a serial data stream, drive motors and respond to inputs, it can be used.

Cheers, Vern
 
thanks Vern. What do you call

Have you had some funny names for your designing and prototype work? I think skunk works is already used . How about INTELLIGENCE at the NEXT LEVEL? ( INTEL) woops thats already taken! How about INTELLIGENCE CANADIAN STYLE (ICS Division) Sounds pretty authentic Aey! Lets go with that.

Ron in Oregon RV9A
 
If anyone is having trouble finding the installation guide for the autotrim controller, please send me a PM. It's hard to find on the MakerPlane site, so I can email the pdf upon request.

The device has been available since 'Kosh.

Cheers,
 
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