[Tandem46]

Does anyone out there have any experience/opinions on the pros and cons of either the Sky-tec or B&C starters. Is one better than the other?

Thanks,
Tobin

 

[sprucemoose]

Yes. I have experience with both. I believe that B&C makes a better starter, but it is much more expensive. That's the short version. If you want the long version, check the RV List archives. Do a search on "jpoint & skytec" and you'll find plenty to read.

Jeff Point
RV-6 w/ B&C starter, alternator and VR.
Milwaukee WI

 

[penguin]

I agree with Jeff. The new Sky-tecs are much better than they were a few years ago (I believe they used to use some used components), but B&C starters are still better. If money was no object I would get a B&C, but ...

Pete

 

[atreff]

B&C for sure

I've had both Sky Tec and B&C. The Sky Tec did not live up to the manufacturer's claims of faster cranking. I'd buy a B&C, it will be the last starter you'll have to buy.

Art in Asheville

 

[Scott Will]

From what they told me at Barrett engines, B&C's have ball bearings while Skytec's do not. Also they said the price difference (at their place) was only about $50. I have the numbers at my office but not with me right now.

If the difference is only $50, then I'd go with B&C.

 

[painless]

I suggest you go and read Jeff Point's account of his experience with Skytec. Very informative.

Sure glad I bumped into Jeff at Airventure when I was in the market for a starter. You guessed it....I got a B&C.

Thanks again for the heads-up Jeff! Just another reason I owe you a cold one!

Regards,

 

[gmcjetpilot]

YES and NO

From what they told me at Barrett engines, B&C's have ball bearings while Skytec's do not. Also they said the price difference (at their place) was only about $50. I have the numbers at my office but not with me right now. If the difference is only $50, then I'd go with B&C.

First of all SkyTec does use ball bearings in their hi-torque model, and it is still cheaper than a B&C by $125 and is equivalent in design and looks. SkyTec has another top of line model which is even better than the B&C and is still cheaper by $25.

http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm

A ball bearing SkyTec (wire wound) is $125 less than a B&C. The original Flyweight SkyTec is $200 cheaper and will work for 90% of the builders.


Second, only their "Skyweight" SkyTec starter use bushings. So what, there has never been a bushing failure in a SkyTec. If you have lots of money and don't mind the several $70 dollar diff, than step up from the "Skyweight" skytec to the SkyTec High-torque model which as bearings and sealed wire wound motor, just like the B&C for $125 less. If you want the deluxe, get the new Skytec High-torque-inline model which is the best you can get, and it is better than the B&C for $25 less than the B&C.

If you have some desire to buy B&C for the name and have an extra $200, than do that. I am sure it is a good starter. SkyTec makes fine starters as well as B&C, but if you want Bang for Bucks get the less expensive starter, or consider the High-torque SkyTec, which is equivalent to the B&C in every way. (Actually they all are look like they are using similar parts from the automotive industry.)

A side note about PM starters (permanent magnet like the Flyweight SkyTec) and wire wound (SkyTec High Torque). Again SkyTec makes both. PM will take more current to crank than a wire wound motor, but will be lighter and cheaper. The wire wound cost more but will use less current to start. Since most batteries have plenty of juice to power a PM starter it is not a big deal. However some who use an electronic ignition with PM starters have reported and complained of starting problems. It seems system voltage is drawn down too low during start from a PM starter and makes the EI act erratic or not at all. The low voltage reportedly can cause erratic kick-backs or no kick off at all. (Some of the problem might be with the engine itself or poor electrical system/battery but not the starter.) There are several fixes and one of them is use a wire wound starter, but that may not be necessary. Even LightSpeed claims a PM starter can NOT cause a problem because their EI works on a very low voltage. (Don't know about E-mag and ElectroAir) So if you have problems it could be your wiring or battery. So PM starter issues are hit and miss. Many have no problem and it is not clear what EI have the problem or why. Other fixes can be found with out replacing the starter to a more expensive one. Look at SkyTec's web site.
http://www.skytecair.com/EI.htm

Some examples of EI fixes to erratic starts with a PM starter are: A small extra battery for the ignition (which you may want any way as a back-up) or a capacitor to keep the EI powered for a short intermittent draw down from the starter.

B&C is famous for sales hype. Read their alternator advertisement "On a dark and stormy night your lights go out...." This is an effort to sell you a $850 alternator & regulator when a Self-contained Nippon Denso alternator will do the same thing with comparable reliability and safety. Same with the starter, consider the Basic Sky Tec for


Cheers George

 

[garnt.piper]

Skytec

I have recently fitted a Skytec LS starter, replacing a Lycoming 'lightweight', and am pretty impressed with it. My engine is a standard O-360-A1A with no EI(start on LH maggie only), wood prop, and I use an Odyssey ES500 battery. The Skytec spins the engine MUCH faster than the original starter ever did. I only have a few hours on it so far, but so far so good (original lasted ~160hrs).

 

[sprucemoose]

SkyTec has another top of line model which is even better than the B&C and is still cheaper by $25.

If you want the deluxe, get the new Skytec High-torque-inline model which is the best you can get, and it is better than the B&C for $25 less than the B&C.

You make the claim several times in your post that the new top-of-the-line Skytec is better than the B&C, without offering anything to support the claim. Could you offer us something in support of this opinion?

Also, you claim that the Skytec Flyweight (with a PM motor and bushings, the el-cheapo model) is good for 90% of builders. I disagree with this. With more builders using the smaller batteries like the Oddesy, as well as lightweight props, I think the problems with Skytec Flyweights will be more and not less frequent.

Jeff Point

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Thanks Jeff

You make the claim several times in your post that the new top-of-the-line Skytec is better than the B&C, without offering anything to support the claim.Jeff Point

Thanks for keeping me honest. I have no proof. In fact I think their top of line SkyTec would be a waste of money for RV guys. It really was made for some retracts on planes that could not use the other two styles. The Hi-Torque is as good as the more expensive one from a mechanical standpoint as far as I know. As far as B&C they make nice stuff, but apples to apples it is more money. For the money the SkyTec is better based on cost and simular performance. I stand to be corrected again.

I think this is another great thing cafe foundation could do, a consumer report kind of thing.

Cheers George

 

[akarmy]

Does anyone out there have any experience/opinions on the pros and cons of either the Sky-tec or B&C starters. Is one better than the other?

Thanks,
Tobin

I have a B&C starter (and alternator) and they have worked flawlessly for 400 hours.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Yes great stuff

I have a B&C starter (and alternator) and they have worked flawlessly for 400 hours.

Yes, great stuff, good quality. They take a stock ND alternator, take the internal regulator out and "balance the fan" or something like that. For that you are looking at well over $800 for alternator and regulator. I think the product is good, it is the price that is crazy.

You can buy a new stock ND alternator for less than $ 100 (if you can buy wholesale, if not closer to $200). You can add the brackets and misc brackets and nut and bolts for another $60. For $160-$250 you can have a good reliable alternator. The problem I have is the sales hype and sensationalized "It is a dark and stormy night and your alternator dies, ....our B&C will not let you down like others."

Well I feel if your product is good and priced right the market will buy it. They make claims of superior reliability, which is not proven or supported. For example the reliability of stock ND alternators, before B&C modifies them, is excellent. It's the product it's the sales approach. For example they claim to balance their alternator for improved reliability. The stock ones must be balanced pretty well because they are very reliable out the box. Heck these ND alternators live in Luxury 30-80 thousand dollar car's with very expensive electronics. I don't think the consumer would put up with poor quality. Consumer reports show the alternator is not a problem, at least in cars.

Look there are literally MILLIONS of stock ND alternators in cars, trucks and industrial equipment. They are going 24/ 7 and have a great reputation for reliability. The Highway safety foundation tracks problems with vehicles on US roads, including electrical problems. The ND alternator has no reported problems, which is not true of many other makes of alternators, which have been featured in recalls and electrical fires. As well there are 100's if not thousands of stock ND alternators in kit planes, some with 800-2000 hours in service with no problems and continued reliability. Not that there has been no failures, but they tend to be rebuilt ND alternators. B&C alternators & regulators have had problems also. Nothing is perfect, thus my displeasure with B&C implying their alternator is a quantum leap in reliability. I have two cars with ND alternators. One went 212,000 miles over about 12 years, than it died. That is about 4000 plus hours assuming 53 mph avg over the 212,000 miles. It was way more hours than that, but lets assume it would get only 1/2 that, 2000 hours in a plane. That is pretty good. My RV- 4 had about 600 trouble free hours with a ND with out problem before I sold it, and it was still going strong. Remember your B&C is really just a ND alternator. It has the same wear items. That is all. If you have the better part of $900 than I would buy a B&C alternator (but I would get a $60 electronic regulator not the $200 plus B&C). If you are on a budget get a stock ND alternator with an internal VR for a 4th the money.

Cheers George

 

[osxuser]

We have a Skytec NL on our C177. It cranks a bit faster, and is infinitly more reliable than the original. The Skytec Hi Torque has also been very impressive in many of our customers opinions.