[Dmadd]

After installing new prop and flying off the 5 hours, what should the signoff say? Little help over here please... ;-)

Dennis
PS
this fixed pitch MT made it a different airplane...WOW. two thumbs up.

 

[vic syracuse]

Did you receive new limitations from your FSDO? If so, they should tell you what the statement should read. If not, I would make an entry similar to the original entry, stating that you have tested the airplane since the addition of the new prop, have found no adverse flight characteristics, the aircraft is safe, and VX, Vy, Vso, and the weights and CG at which they were obtained.

Vic

 

[Dmadd]

Called the FSDO and they said change the prop, fly off the time and sign it off. No paper required. Just didn't tell me what to write.
Thanks Vic, I'll locate and copy the signoff in the front of the log book. BTW, I had an A+P sign off the work, since I didn't build the A/C
Thanks
Dennis

Did you receive new limitations from your FSDO? If so, they should tell you what the statement should read. If not, I would make an entry similar to the original entry, stating that you have tested the airplane since the addition of the new prop, have found no adverse flight characteristics, the aircraft is safe, and VX, Vy, Vso, and the weights and CG at which they were obtained.

Vic

 

[Mitch757]

Prop Change

I've just encountered a similar situation. I just purchased a new blended airfoil Hartzell to replace the older Hartzell prop on my RV-4. Boston FSDO says it is a "major change" and I will have to request a test area in writing and then fly off 5 hours.

Mitch Garner
RV-4 flying
RV-12 under construction

 

[N941WR]

Called the FSDO and they said change the prop, fly off the time and sign it off. No paper required. Just didn't tell me what to write.
Thanks Vic, I'll locate and copy the signoff in the front of the log book. BTW, I had an A+P sign off the work, since I didn't build the A/C
Thanks
Dennis

Dennis,

Get that in writing! My FSDO sent me an email stating "...submit an FAA Form 8130-6 with the new propeller information, to update OKC records."

I would at least do that. After my taxi incident it became very clear they were going through all of my paperwork and the plane to make sure it all matched up. If it didn't, then they could deny the claim. (BTW, it has been over three months and I'm still waiting for that check.)

 

[jnorris]

My FSDO sent me an email stating "...submit an FAA Form 8130-6 with the new propeller information, to update OKC records."

DO NOT fill out and submit a new 8130-6 unless you are replacing a fixed-pitch prop with a constant speed prop (or vice versa). You do NOT submit a new -6 form if you are changing from one fixed-pitch prop to another (or one constant speed prop to another.) This should be stated in your aircraft's operating limitations.

To the original question, if your aircraft was certificated within the past 8 to 10 years your operating limitations will include the appropriate entry to put in your aircraft records. Check the operating limitations. (You'll find that it's the same entry that was required after completing the initial phase 1 flight testing.)

If your operating limitations are from before about 1999, it probably will not provide an exact entry for your records, but will require a written response from the FSDO before flying the aircraft after incorporating the major change. If this is the case, the FSDO written response should include what to write in the aircraft records. If it does not, you are free to make an entry of your choosing, but I would recommend that you reference the written response from the FSDO and retain that response as a part of the aircraft records.

If your operating limitations are old enough (Mid 80's or before) they may require you to have a new airworthiness certificate issued after incorporating a major change.

Cheers!

Joe

 

[Toobuilder]

I've just encountered a similar situation. I just purchased a new blended airfoil Hartzell to replace the older Hartzell prop on my RV-4. Boston FSDO says it is a "major change" and I will have to request a test area in writing and then fly off 5 hours.

Mitch Garner

That's why I never go to the feds first... I'd like to know how they could consider this a major change. Same performance, weight and operation...

 

[jnorris]

That's why I never go to the feds first... I'd like to know how they could consider this a major change. Same performance, weight and operation...

The FAA always considers a propeller change to be a major change, except when it's a direct replacement of the same make/model. They look at possible performance difference, vibration issues as well as possible weight and balance issues as potential problem areas. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent. I'm just telling you what the FAA has told us.

Cheers!

Joe

 

[Bob Kuykendall]

...BTW, I had an A+P sign off the work, since I didn't build the A/C...

A minor hijack: It doesn't matter whether or not you're the builder of an amateur-built experimental aircraft. You or anybody else can work on it and sign off that work regardless of whether or not you are an A&P or hold the repairman certificate.

The only unique privilege conferred by the repairman certificate is that of signing off the annual condition inspection. That inspection can also be signed off by an A&P, no IA required.

Here's what it says in 14CFR43.3(a)

> § 43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance,
> preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alterations.
>
> (a) Except as provided in this section and §43.17,
> no person may maintain, rebuild, alter, or perform
> preventive maintenance on an aircraft, airframe,
> aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component
> part to which this part applies.

After that, the section goes on to describe who can do what and how that approval is conferred. But the money shot is in the last five words of para (a): "to which this part applies."

Flipping backwards to 14CFR43.1(b), we find:

> § 43.1 Applicability.
> ...
> (b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for
> which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate,
> unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind
> of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft.

So all of the verbiage in all of Part 43 regarding who can maintain and repair the aircraft is null and void when it comes to experimental, amateur-built aircraft. The only such applicable limitations are spelled out in the operating limitations that accompany the Special Airworthiness Certificate issued for the purposes of operating an amateur-built aircraft.

Thanks, Bob K.

 

[N941WR]

DO NOT fill out and submit a new 8130-6 unless you are replacing a fixed-pitch prop with a constant speed prop (or vice versa). You do NOT submit a new -6 form if you are changing from one fixed-pitch prop to another (or one constant speed prop to another.) This should be stated in your aircraft's operating limitations.
...

Joe,

The Charlotte, NC FSDO knew that my change was FP to FP with the only difference being the diameter and pitch. Both props were to be Catto's. Our email exchanges went back and fourth and that quote was the final word from him.

So, at least in Charlotte, NC I would fill out the 8130-6, put it back in phase one for a few hours, and all is good.

Oh, and they would send me new limitations.

 

[jnorris]

Joe,

The Charlotte, NC FSDO knew that my change was FP to FP with the only difference being the diameter and pitch. Both props were to be Catto's. Our email exchanges went back and fourth and that quote was the final word from him.

So, at least in Charlotte, NC I would fill out the 8130-6, put it back in phase one for a few hours, and all is good.

Oh, and they would send me new limitations.

Well, they're making it up as they go along then (which is not all that uncommon). For a change as you describe there is NOTHING in the regulations OR in the FAA policy that would require a new -6 or a new airworthiness certificate (which is what you are going to get). I don't know when your current operating limitations were issued, but there would be a variation of the "major change" procedure as I described in my previous post in this thread. The guidance offered in FAA Order 8130.2F specifically states that only when going from a fixed-pitch to constant speed (or vice versa) is a new -6 required.

But then again, since when do FAA field offices follow the guidance in their own orders!!

Anyway, if they're happy and you're happy I guess it just doesn't matter. I just get irritated when the FAA can't follow their own guidance. Oh well...

Joe