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ScaniaRV

Member
Had my first priming session last weekend. At the end of the day I had a headache and felt sick. I thought I had taken enough precautions but perhaps I missed some vital detail. I use a 2-part epoxi primer that is reduced with something based on MEK. My setup includes a spraybooth with an exhaust fan (explosionproof) vented outside. The fan seems to be able to keep a lower pressure in the booth since its plastic walls bows inward at all times. I used a respirator with a halfmask and a hood over the head. In addition I wore an old military raincoat and chemical gloves (laminated) rated for MEK. The respirator and spraygun turbine was outside the booth at the other end of the workshop, a distance of about 12 feet. I didn?t notice any smell of solvent during the day but it was perhaps masked by the smell from the new respirator. My method of preparation did not include any alumiprep and alodine. Instead I tried prekote which according to the product information does not demand respirator or ventilation. On the other hand this part was done the day before spraying and I was feeling fine after that experience. Any suggestions what might have went wrong is appreciated.
 
I'm sorry to hear your not feeling well. MEK is fairly toxic. As with any chemical it can be absorbed through the skin. I'd advise to get a suit which will completely cover you. Also, ensure there are no leaks in your breathing aparatus. Some painters feel the half-mask may not seal well enough and purchase the full mask. (Check with your local FD for type and sources.)

If you find you have a sensitivity to the chemicals in the painting process, you might consider farming this part out. (Assuming it's exterior color and not prime. If prime, take it outside, if that's feasible.)

I would think the joy of having an aircraft you've built might be slightly offset if you're dying of lung cancer or some other illness associated with the building process. :confused:

Be careful
Fred
 
Perhaps an obvious suggestion, butwhile I am sure that you can up the precautions, I would be inclined to switch to a less toxic/demanding primer - for example, I am using a Dupont DTM two part epoxy primer, taking fewer precautions than you (a quality mask, outside, and long sleeves) without any problem (that I know of). In the winter, I sometimes use a self etching primer, spray outside and then bring inside to dry - it doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on the result. Given the amount of priming that has to be done, (large and small bits) one wants to avoid a process that is too demanding on the set up.
Bill
 
Check some of the industrial safety supplies like Lab Safety, Vallen, etc. for some full face respirators, cartridges and other PPE. Sounds like you either are allergic or got a pretty heavy dose of the stuff.

Make sure your gloves and other items are suitable for the materials you're using as well. As Fred says, lots of these things will go through many materials and your skin.

Even though I painted mine, I'd have to seriously think about not painting a second. I've probably used up a lot of my lifetime credit on chemical eposure.

Good luck.
 
Seems obvious, but you are wearing a respirator while stirring paint, right? It's amazing what a big dose of fumes you can get while simply mixing.
 
Allergic reaction

Be very careful the next time you work around these products (over and above what you have done!). Some people develop allergies to these chemicals (epoxies especially). The first exposure is not truly severe. The next and subsequent exposures could be!

Very good sugestion on wearing the respirator while mixing. I would go further and say a respirator should be used any time the cans are open, primer or paint is drying (and you are in the area) and don't forget during cleanup.

Developing epoxy allergies has killed many projects for the "plastic guys".
 
Not to discount the more serious possibilities, but it sounds like you took care to protect yourself. Any chance you were just light-headed and sick from dehydration or not eating all day. Sometimes I sweat a LOT in the mask and/or suit. Sometimes I get so focused on finishing the priming session that I don't eat or drink anything--either of these two things could explain how you felt too. Again, though, definitely make sure it's not the result of chemical exposure first. Good luck.
 
Inlet Vent

I would also put a vent in so that the fresh air is sucked into you paint booth. Use some type of filter and that will help the sides of your paint booth from collapsing.
Good Luck,
 
Primer choice

If this proves a problem in the future (and wasn't a one-time event) you might also consider a water based primer. I used it (AFS) and was very happy with it. It is much less toxic.

Bob Kelly
 
Wrong respirator cartridge

Fax the MSDS of the product you are using to the cartridge manufacturer and ask them if it is appropriate for the chemicals you are dealing with (3M has this kind of free service). Cartridges are made for a specific purpose. In example, a self etching primer needs cartridges to protect you from acids in addition to carbon protecting you from other chemicals. You are using a non self etching primer so you do not have this problem but you may have another compatibility issue.

Also, be careful you may develop either a chemical sensitivity or an allergy. Sensitivity would appear if your liver can?t detoxify the substance in an efficient way, allergy is of course an immune reaction. Both get worse with repeated exposure.

If this product is a problem for you I would stop using it right away, why, because paint fumes for up to 3 months (at low level). Even when it dries up it is still fuming toxins into the air. Sooner or later you will end up with a problem, unless this time it was neither chemical sensitivity nor an allergic reaction.

I bought fresh air system because I was not getting enough air in a mask and I was developing a headache. I was getting the same headache even when I was not working with toxins.

Good luck.
 
MEK is the Devil!

MarkDews said:
Be very careful the next time you work around these products (over and above what you have done!). Some people develop allergies to these chemicals (epoxies especially). The first exposure is not truly severe. The next and subsequent exposures could be!
QUOTE]

while building my fuel tanks I used MEK to clean up the outside parts of the tank. Even with a mask and gloves on, I've developed an allergic reaction to it. Just opening the can and getting a whif of the stuff will give me a sore throat, cough, pluged nose, headache, congestion... the works, all within 1 hour and takes usually 14 days to get over it. :eek: Unfortunatly it took 2-3 times to figure out it was the MEK and not seasonal allergies.
Click to expand...
 
Bruce said:
I would also put a vent in so that the fresh air is sucked into you paint booth. Use some type of filter and that will help the sides of your paint booth from collapsing.
Good Luck,
Click to expand...
I agree. The fact that the plastic on the walls of the booth is bowed inward means that there is negative pressure inside the booth, but it does not necessairly mean that the fan is moving air through the booth. In fact, the opposite may be true. A fan will move less air as the differential pressure across it increases, and if the supply of air is restricted enough, the fan blades will stall, at which point they will move very little air.

The bottom line is that you may not have enough air moving through your booth, and the concentration of volitile organic compounds may be increasing continuoulsy as you spray.

You need to have an unrestricted supply of makeup air to the booth, like several large furnace filters, and you should have enough fan capacity to change the air in the booth several times a minute.
 
How about checking the source inlet air for the respirator at the other end of the workshop. Anywhere near a combustion source? Headache and nausea are also classic for Carbon Monoxide exposure.

Doesn't take much to cause what you describe!
 
One more thing to check is the air flow thru the booth. In using a small booth at the Air Guard (designed for working with hazardous chemicals), I found there was turbulence that swirled the air around the booth before drawing it out. It has one heck of a strong fan sucking on the air but it wasn't engineered to make sure the air went only one way and it sucked in the curtains around the sides, but did not control the flow direction well.
 
What about the cleanup?

Experience with this stuff tells me it is difficult to absorb in large quantities though just breathing it in. I have watched people take precautions like this and then literally bath in the MEK when cleaning the gun etc.

Your skin will allow you to absorb a lot more of the stuff in a very small time, particularly under your nails etc... it is a virtually direct line to your bloodstream. Your symptoms are almost certainly due to the solvent. The Epoxy (Particularly the Akzo) is dry very quickly and will sink to the floor.

I would suggest there are a couple of posibilities for why you feel this way...

1. You are super alergic (I know painters who have worked with this stuff for 20 years and do not react like this). Have you had a liver infection previously? If so you should definately not be doing this sort of thing.

2. Contaminating your skin with the product (most likely).

3. Your booth is in-effective and allowing the solvent to build up to a level that your respirator is not designed to take. Car painters use forced air for this reason. Do you have a beard? Early in the day could you smell solvent?

The booth is your enemy, consider doing away with it as it will allow the fumes to build up and increase your issue. You will find it very hard to get sick hanging parts on your back fence and spraying from an upwind position. This is not real good for the neighbours though.

4. You didn't drink a lot and got dehydrated... When you paint make sure you drink more than usual. Dehydration will make your symptoms worse.

Be on the lookout for other symptoms over the next few days... swollen or sore liver (abdominal) etc. If you experience anything un-usual see your doctor.

Lastly, I painted my first aeroplane with this stuff. I would not do so again. Most builders I know say the same. My strong advice is to go and find something less toxic and use it. This stuff really will hurt you ... nothing much else in your shop will until you get to the first engine start/first flight.

Take Care
Richard

RV-7A - Finishing
 
Feeling ok again

[size=+1]Thanks for all the feedback and support. Here?s a summary of all your suggestions which makes up a good checklist:
- Suitable clothes and gloves covering the whole body
- No leaks in respirator equipment
- Prime outside
- Less toxic primer, perhaps water based
- Protect yourself at all times, also when stirring and cleaning
- Don't forget to eat and drink
- Check air flow through booth, big enough inlet
- Make sure the crtridge is appropriate for the chemicals used
- Place the air inlet for the respirator in clean air

After 24 hours I was feeling fine again and I haven't felt anything spending time in the workshop afterwards. Thi eliminates I was experience an allergic reaction I think so I'll make another try. Before that I'll check my gear and procedures according to all your good advice.


Ulf Thurban
RV-7 Empennage
[/size]
 
Full Face Respirator

I started using a Full Face respirator, kinda looks like a gas mask. The solvents can enter your body through your eyes, the soft wet human eye, will soak up solvents like a sponge. It might sound like an old wives tale, but Drink a glass of milk, and a glass of water after you paint, and clean up the mess. I dont know if any scientific research has ever been done about Milk fighting of MEK, but it works for me, i paint something everyday. And i am never sick after wards. Tired maybe, irritated, sometimes, but not sick.
Check your preasure at the paint gun, if you are getting alot of overspray, you are basically marinating yourself in the chemicals. like others have said, your skin will absorb it, and even a small leak in your mask will allow enough in to really make you sick, and or pass out, and or die. Also as others have said, check the rating on the respirator you are using. Home Depot doesnt sell respirators rated for these types of chemicals. Contact your local automotive paint supply shop. Or Aircraft Spruce.
Good luck
PainterJohn
 
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