[Build9A]

Not even close to RV related, but??????

Paul or anyone who knows:

Just got curious after watching the shuttle take off from Florida.

Does the PIC get to log flight time?
Does he/she log time while in orbit?
Does he/she log cross country time?*

*Since they typically take off and land from the same location, does this mean PIC can't log the flight as cross country?


By the way congrats to the whole NASA crowd for a successful launch!

 

[n468ac]

Do you get an "Space" endorsement on your license?

 

[mikegraycmg]

type rating

Sounds like a type rating to me. Also, you could probably log it as high performance, but, without a variable speed propeller, I don't know if you could log it as complex.

 

[coastalflyer]

Motorglider

You guys got it all wrong. It's a motorglider, so you don't even need a medical.

 

[Mel]

But do you have to have 3 take-offs and landings within the last 90 days to carry passengers?
How would you log the time? What "N" number would you use?

 

[Ironflight]

Let's see....maybe no N-Number Mel, because NASA is self-inspecting and self licensing when it comes to our aerospace vehicles (despite the fact that we DO have N-numbers on many of the planes....Hmmm, usually it's the tail number of the airframe, with the first digit representing the Center. "9xx" are JSC aircraft for instance. Of course, we might get into a dispute with KSC over who owns the Orbiter airframes....

I've always considered approach nd landing phase to be "Heavy Glider" time - no go-around, and the only "engines" running are the APU's powering the hydraulics.

Ascent? Well, you've got three mains at 0.5 million pounds thrust each, and the SRB's each kick in another 3.0 million lbs...any arguments that you'd need a multi-engine rating for that?

I'd have no trouble logging it as PIC, even though the A/P is flying....that's the way most airline is flown, right guys? But category and class? I'll leave that to the DAR's to figure out....

Fun! (and all is well aboard Endeavour!) I hope some of those that were talking about going to see the launch made it - sure looked spectacular from here.

Paul

 

[Coinneach]

Ascent? Well, you've got three mains at 0.5 million pounds thrust each, and the SRB's each kick in another 3.0 million lbs...any arguments that you'd need a multi-engine rating for that?

Don't forget the HP endorsement. Probably wouldn't need complex, though.

 

[Fearless]

Shuttle Tank Camera ?

Paul,

I watched the launch on TV yesterday. When did they start showing the view from the external tank camera? I thought it was great.

On another note I got to watch an early morning Shuttle launch at the Indian River VIP (where Saturn 5 is displayed) site back in 96. I got the behind the scene's look inside the hangers and VAB. The company I work for was doing business with United Space Alliance at the time and we were able to arraign a business meeting coinciding with a launch. One of those once in a lifetime deals.

Keep on making us proud.

 

[Jamie]

Paul,
I watched the launch on TV yesterday. When did they start showing the view from the external tank camera? I thought it was great.

The tank and SRB cameras were put into place as a result of the Columbia break-up. I hadn't really seen them on TV before, but the videos are always available on the NASA website. They are REALLY neat. The SRB videos go from ignition to splashdown in the Atlantic.

 

[n468ac]

Let's see....maybe no N-Number Mel, because NASA is self-inspecting and self licensing when it comes to our aerospace vehicles (despite the fact that we DO have N-numbers on many of the planes....Paul

Didn't the FAA have to come up with something for spaceshipone?


Is NASA exempt from FAA regs on all their aerospace vehicles?

 

[Ironflight]

Didn't the FAA have to come up with something for spaceshipone?


Is NASA exempt from FAA regs on all their aerospace vehicles?

I'm sure that Spaceshipone has a regular N-number, since it is (was) privately owned....

NASA flight operations are technically exempt from FAA regs, just as the military is - you don't need an FAA license to fly an Air Force F-16 for instance - but in reality, we have our own set of rules/regs which dovetail in to the FAA rules (for operations) and in many cases, the rules are tighter.

And yes, those ET and SRB cameras we've added since Columbia are just about the best show in town! The ET camera comes down in real-time, but the SRB's are recorded on board, and we have to wait for to wait for those to come back in with the recovery ships and arrive about Day 4 - highly anticipated viewing in MCC!

 

[buz]

We were there

I drive up to see all the launches with my two daughters(2&4) and they love it. I view from the waters edge almost directly west of the pad. It was a little hazy but always awsome, even saw one of the SRB's falling(the sun lights them up pretty well) back to earth.

Anyway can't wait till something else rockets to space!!

 

[John Clark]

Public Aircraft

NASA flight operations are technically exempt from FAA regs, just as the military is - you don't need an FAA license to fly an Air Force F-16 for instance - but in reality, we have our own set of rules/regs which dovetail in to the FAA rules (for operations) and in many cases, the rules are tighter./QUOTE]

True, even more interesting, aircraft operated by a city, county, state, and federal government can be exempt from the FARs. The term is "public aircraft." See FAR 1.1, Definitions and Abbreviations.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

 

[kentb]

Hmmm...

True, even more interesting, aircraft operated by a city, county, state, and federal government can be exempt from the FARs. The term is "public aircraft." See FAR 1.1, Definitions and Abbreviations.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

I may need to incorporate my home, and then set my own rules.

KentCity, KentVille, KentTown.

What do you think sounds best?

Kent

 

[JoeBlank]

Logbook entry?

My guess is that time logged will be in the Multi Engine, Rocket, Glider catagory? Not sure how the type rating would work out on either....

 

[Thermos]

True, even more interesting, aircraft operated by a city, county, state, and federal government can be exempt from the FARs. The term is "public aircraft."

So the shuttle is a 'public aircraft'? Great! When do I get my ride?



Dave

 

[Paul Thomas]

I hope some of those that were talking about going to see the launch made it - sure looked spectacular from here.

Paul

You guys moved the date on us!
I couldn't make it on Wed due to work and I didn't have access to an airplane anyways (I refuse to drive that far away). I'll try for the next one.

 

[az_gila]

Rocket Assisted Glider

My guess is that time logged will be in the Multi Engine, Rocket, Glider catagory? Not sure how the type rating would work out on either....

No... it's "Glider - Rocket assisted Take-off"

My old English glider log book had codes for launch type, W-winch, A-aerotow, and even a R-Rocket code!

Don't even need a medical on the glider license.....

gil A.

 

[Droopy]

FAR Exemptions

NASA flight operations are technically exempt from FAA regs, just as the military is - you don't need an FAA license to fly an Air Force F-16 for instance - but in reality, we have our own set of rules/regs which dovetail in to the FAA rules (for operations) and in many cases, the rules are tighter.

Wow, never thought I'd get to correct Paul!!

Actually, military (Air Force at least) is not exempt from the FARs. Here's the quote from AFI 11-202 Volume 3 General Flight Rules:

1.2. Compliance.
1.2.1. The PIC will ensure compliance with the following:
1.2.1.1. This AFI and MAJCOM guidance.
1.2.1.2. MDS-specific instructions and supplements.
1.2.1.3. The FARs when operating within the United States including the airspace overlying the waters out to 12 miles from the US coast, unless the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has excluded military operations.
1.2.1.4. ICAO SARPs in international airspace over the high seas, military mission permitting.
1.2.1.5. The specific rules of each individual nation as published in Flight Information Publications (FLIP) planning documents and the Foreign Clearance Guide (FCG). Theater commanders must ensure the contents of FLIP accurately indicate the rules of each nation within their area of
responsibility that differ from this instruction.
1.2.1.6. ICAO SARPS when operating in a nation whose rules are not published.
1.2.1.7. Procedures and special notices in FLIP, Notices to Airmen (NOTAMs), aircraft technical orders, Air Force directives, MAJCOM directives, and Air Traffic Control (ATC) instructions. (See Attachment 1 for related publications.)

Of course, there are waivers for many types of operations, as well as exclusions IN the FARs for many of our operations. (ie, maximum speed below 10K is 250 knots OR the minimum safe tech order airspeed, whichever is greater. What's that for the Shuttle?? )

John
RV-10 40208 Wings
RV-8 94DW
F-16 Driver

 

[Ironflight]

Well John, you're absolutely right in that the order says that you have to comply with the FAR's....I guess what I meant is that government agency aviation isn't actually REGULATED by the FAR's (at least as I understand it), but certainly, our agencies voluntarily comply with them - at least operationally. I would be surprised if the next F-16 you fly has an FAA registration and Airworthiness Certificate for instance. But you are correct in that since everyone is supposed to operate within the FAR's, this is really just a technicality and is transparent to most.

The Shuttle? We never exceed an indicated airspeed of about 300 knots (+/-) on approach. Of course, we are so high on most of the atmospheric part of entry that the TAS is a HECK of a lot higher!