akschu

akschu

Well Known Member
Patron
I have a dilemma.

I am ready to order my panel, and have gotten a quote from a local avionics shop and also a well known and respected shop based in the lower-48. The local guy is about $800 more (depending on shipping) than the shop in the lower-48, but has provided a very important service. The local shop has a AFS, GRT, and dynon on display and if it wasn't for that display I wouldn't have made the right choice for me since it wasn't until I played with all of the EFIS boxes that the clear choice emerged.

So on one hand I want to give him my business, but on the other hand, $800 is $800 and the lower-48 vendor will probably provide better support since they install many more panels than the guy up here.

Anyone want to share thoughts on what they would do and why? I feel like a Rabbi staring at pork on sale.

schu
 
I doubt he will given that I provided him with a copy of the quote he was trying to match before he provided his quote. It's pretty clear this is the best he can do. I suspect he isn't getting as good a deal of the gear.

schu
 
Since you asked...

My free opinion is to go with the local guy. If you provided the quote and he sharpened his pencil as best he can, you can assume he is not taking advantage of you. Local service, actual display models you can touch and good for your local economy.

I say give him the business. I like the little guys that are trying and with all the potential issues...local help might be worth LOTS. Good luck with your choice, whatever it is.
 
What is the actual shipping cost?

Do you have a firm quote for shipping? I've learned never to assume that shipping/handling/insurance is going to be reasonable... once they hear Alaska, they know they've got you :(

I try to buy locally whenever I can too, but $800 is $800.

Maybe there is some other way to support the local shop? Do they sell other stuff you need, maybe at less of a cost differential with shops in the lower 48?

Let us know how you decide.
 
$800 is far too much difference in my book. Just because you window shopped doesnt make you beholden to the local guy. Get over the guilt and and you will have several tanks of gas and many hours of flying paid for. These are belt-tightening times man!

erich
 
Do it yourself and save even more... There's no magic to it.. You'll appreciate it later when you need to troubleshoot it or make changes... you'll know what's in your airplane. Just recently helped a guy who didn't do his 'cause the "shop" is half the country away and can't come over to help out with wiring issue.. And some of these things just can't be done over the phone.

And if you really feel "guilty" give the guy $50 for letting you play with those display units for a few hours.. that'd be reasonable in my book.. $800 is a lot of money...

But then again.. the above may be considered "extreme" or even "conservative" views... :)
 
I am doing the wiring myself, the $800 difference is just the physical equipment.

schu
 
Check out the warranty for PS Engineering. They won't honor it unless the harness was put together by an approved dealer. Don't know whether this applies to the equipment you're buying. For what it's worth, if it were mine and I'm going to be doing instrument flight, I'd want to know that everything has been properly installed and debugged. In my case, that means someone other than me. Is it worth $800 to have someone else responsible and available to fix any problems? Depends on how you intend to use the plane. Incidentally, I had a licensed shop inspect my engine installation work and do the first fire on my Lycoming - I didn't want to deal with any self inflicted problems. They ended up re-plumbing my primer to minimize work hardening of the copper tubing. Dollars well spent from my point of view.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
A thought....

You've commented a fair amount on what you 'got' from the local guy, but what did you get from the the other company? If all you got and expect to get was a price; that's one thing. However, there are some good people (suppliers) out there and a number of them routinely on VAF (avionics, engines, etc.) giving info freely and not just on their own products. These folks have all 'given' us something too; if 'the other guy' is one of these, take that into consideration too.

Since you gave the local guy the quote to match and he couldn't; he knew the rules.

I'm not suggesting either way, just noting a couple of items.
 
I have this happen all the time....

In my hobby shop, I have people without experience buy from the internet and then come in and want you to teach them about what they have bought. It takes a few bucks to keep people on staff, who are experienced in radio control planes, cars, boat, helicopters & trains. Most times you can come pretty close to slashed internet prices, but you do have to make a little more to keep a store front, etc. We treat all customers the same, we help even with product we have not sold. Most of our customers finally come around and realize the facts.

That being said, I bought all my radios from Faststack/Approach and have never regreted it. At the time I bought I was building out in the "boonies" and there really wasn't a local guy. Tim at Faststack has always been available by phone at any time, customer service has been great. He beat the prices of every major vendor I got quotes from and I love their "hub" system. Worked for me, call Tim, you might be surprised.
 
Support your local sheriff ... and avionics shop. ;) For $800, you'll never regret having local support and advice for gear critical to your flying happiness.
 
If you are asking, you already know the answer......

However, I would squeeze him just a smidge and ask for him throw in something like a pitot/static check that only cost him some labor.
 
Harold Lanfear said:
You've commented a fair amount on what you 'got' from the local guy, but what did you get from the the other company? If all you got and expect to get was a price; that's one thing. However, there are some good people (suppliers) out there and a number of them routinely on VAF (avionics, engines, etc.) giving info freely and not just on their own products. These folks have all 'given' us something too; if 'the other guy' is one of these, take that into consideration too.

Since you gave the local guy the quote to match and he couldn't; he knew the rules.

I'm not suggesting either way, just noting a couple of items.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the lower-48 vendor is a regular on VAF and he has gone out of his way to answer my questions and help me on a 1:1 basis even before I was his customer, I have no doubt I'll get top notch service from him, and actually, I suspect I'll get better service from him because he as installed/sold way more of these things than the local guy, and honestly I doubt I'll need support I couldn't get over email.

I have a very technical job, so support usually ends up being a question or clarification of the documentation, in fact, I can't remember the last time I called support that wasn't related to a bug or some lame documentation.

I guess my point is that the support isn't really what I'm looking for as much as compensating the local guy for having a demo to play with which saved me a trip to osh or a making a decision that I wouldn't have been happy with.
 
Ok, I've decided, I'm going with the online guy. Here are the reasons in case anyone cares:

1. The online guy went out of his way to make this a no brainer buy sweetening the deal even more.

2. The online guy provided good quotes with no ambiguity and clear text as to the deliverables. For example, the local guy listed ambiguous stuff like "digiflight II" in an email with a price, while the online vendor listed, "Digiflight II VSGV Autopilot with servos and Mounting Hardware", then lists, "includes full TruTrak OEM Wiring harness." in a pdf quote.

3. The local guy only installs a few a year, while the online vendor installs a bunch of these.

At the end of the day, aside from having the demos and being physically nearby, the online vendor was the much better deal including service. I eventually just had to decide if being local was worth it, and it wasn't.

If the local guy was within $500 and had good communication then perhaps this would have been different.

schu
 
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So what setup did you decide on and why? I will probably have to decide between the same three system makers (AFS, GRT and Dynon) in 6 months to a year and I am just starting to consider which way to go. I'm leaning towards one already, but still need more information to decide.
 
I would buy locally, if only to support your local avionics guy and his business. But (in my opinion) it depends on how flush you feel. Like folks have said, $800 is $800.

My two cents worth. If you wait a couple weeks there are probably enough two cents worth posted here that the $800 difference will be moot!:D

cheers,
greg
 
emuyshondt said:
So what setup did you decide on and why? I will probably have to decide between the same three system makers (AFS, GRT and Dynon) in 6 months to a year and I am just starting to consider which way to go. I'm leaning towards one already, but still need more information to decide.
Click to expand...

I am a software developer and have extensive experience using linux unto the point of building my own embedded device. That said here is my short list of notes:

Dynon:

1. First gen stuff doesn't have many of the features I want. It's basically just an electronic 6 pack with an autopilot option.
2. Second gen stuff isn't out yet and isn't due for a while.
3. The next gen stuff won't have a arinc429 at launch. Their site says, "A subsequent product launch (date unknown) will include our moving map software option and ARINC 429 converter module. " So even if I wait for it, it won't do what I want at launch.
4. The dynon can't drive an external autopilot from analog or arinc429 outputs on a nav/com since they figure you would just buy their autopilot.

GRT:

1. Much better 430w/trutrak integration than dynon.
2. Offers all of the features at a good price point.
3. HX does everything you would want.
4. Engine monitor requires a separate box. (Good or bad depending on how you look at it)
5. Runs debian linux with basically PC hardware under the covers. You can even see X windows startup.

AFS:
1. Also good 430w/trutrak integration.
2. Offers all of the features at a good price point.
3. Advanced deck does everything you would want (except I don't think HIS is supported).
4. MUCH nicer display, and the advanced deck now has 1000 nit LED backlit which is stunning.
5. Joystick to pan on the map.
6. Hardware is ARM which means it runs WAY cooler.
7. Basically a certified ARHS which is built to a higher standard than others.
8. Front mounted memory card for easy software updates.
9. geo-referenced IFR templates.
10. In general, a more polished system.


From those notes it should be pretty obvious which box I bought and why.

schu
 
Thanks!

Pretty much seals it for me since I was already leaning to the same choice you made, except I didn't have as many details as you presented.

Henry
 
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