K

kcameron

Well Known Member
I'm getting close to finalizing the new panel design for my RV-4. Before I commit to getting it cad laid-out and laser-cut, I thought I'd check with the good folks on this list. Maybe I'm missing something important?

Here's the new layout:
http://www.cameron.com/~kcameron/21552.jpg

Equipment is:

AFS 3400 w/ engine monitor and battery backup
Garmin 496 - GPS
Garmin 327 - xpdr
Garmin SL-30 - nav/com
Garmin SL-40 - com
PS Engineering PMA900EX - intercom and audio panel
TruTrak DFII VS - 2-axis autopilot
Guardian CO monitor
2.25" as, alt, vsi
Vertical card compass
Inclinometer

Yes. I know it's a little on the fancy side for an RV-4. One goal is to make long vfr xc's safer and more comfortable.

Your constructive criticism would be appreciated.
 
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Very nice. With the new mapping software on the AFS do you still need the 496? I would like to get the bigger screen 3500 and just use that. Then what GPS engine to drive it?
 
structure behind bottom panel

Kevin, something to be aware of is that there is a structural member a few inches behind the bottom of the panel. The radios will not fit without cutting through this. I've seen some people cut through this, but I don't know how significant this is. With as many radios that you have at the bottom of the panel, it looks like you'd have to cut most of it away. You might ask around or call Vans.

Also, you might consider moving the transponder, radio and gps to the left side of the panel so you can keep your right hand on the stick while you work the radio.
 
Thanks for the comments so far guys.

I don't see myself going with just the AF3400 for mapping for a few reasons:
1) Garmin has been in the mapping business for a long time. Nothing against AFS (far from it) but I just feel I can trust Garmin's maps more.
2) The Garmin provides useful things like road maps.
3) I like being able to take my gps home with me so I can do flight planning at my leisure and get it all setup for an xc before going to the airport.
4) If the 3400 ever dies in flight, having the separate 496 unit will remove the added stress of losing primary navigation.
5) The 496 will be my primary source of in-flight entertainment.

I'm very aware of the cross-support behind the panel. I just recently removed it from my plane; partly because the RV-4 next-door to me doesn't have one. I intend to make up for it by adding my own cross support across the upper longerons behind the instruments (like my neighbor's plane) and making sure my panel attachments are strong enough that the panel itself can add additional rigidity.

I thought about putting the gps, etc on the left side but prefer to work the radios, etc with my right hand. Also, with the 496 on the left, the screen would be obscured while working the buttons with the left hand.
 
Times they are a changin...

Hi Kevin,
Having designed my panel back in the stone ages on a piece of butcher paper, I like yours alot better! Two things: The Garmin 396/496 is a home run with plenty of information to spare, the AF is alot of $$$, what about a TT ADI and Grand Rapids? In the Radio dept, I used a King KLX-135A VFR GPS/Comm which was flawless for 12 years and can be found used on the net for under $1000 and provides great backup Nav. The TruTrak ADI is reasonably priced and works very well. I know, I know, it's not glass:)
I put my radios in the same place you did and got by the above mentioned "structural issue" using 1/8" aluminum for my panel and two upper rear supports, alot stronger and worked great for 1500 hours, still going strong!
Keeping the center console clean is great as you can now hinge the battery box, use a smaller odessey PC680 battery and have a forward storage area. Nicely done, I like it!

Rob Ray
HR2
 
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Thanks, Rob. I've pretty much committed to the current avionics list unless someone shows me something that's actually wrong about it. I hadn't thought of going with a thicker stock for the panel. I'll explore my options for that. I'm going to go ahead and get the cad layout done, though.
 
I just remembered that we can insert actual images.

21552.jpg
 
You'll like it!

Kevin,

I like it, and I think you'll like it, but why the conventional backup instruments? Seems like a waste of space, weight, and money. If for some reason your AF3400 goes down you still have the basic simulated instruments on the 496.

Maybe I'm biased though, same basic set-up I'm flying behind and lovin it.

VAF_7426_640.jpg
 
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Thanks Randy. Good question.

For sure: I would never want to be without an airspeed indicator. I've flown my plane enough that I've got a good seat-of-the-pants feel for speed but I still keep a close eye on the ASI and try to maintain precise speeds. Stall-spins on approach happen when pilots are stressed and distracted and I'm anything but immune to those factors.

On the other hand, the altimeter and vsi might be overkill given the 496 as backup. I'll give it some thought.
 
The Little things...

Kevin,
Your last line brought me a chuckle. Back in the day I worked for my Dad around cropdusters. One of the new guys brought an airplane back claiming the ASI didn't work. The bosses quote was "You mean it actually has one? Get back to work!"

Once you get used to not having something, you don't miss it...:)

RR
 
randylervold said:
Maybe I'm biased though, same basic set-up I'm flying behind and lovin it.

VAF_7426_640.jpg
Click to expand...
I really love that panel. Clean, has what you need for VFR XC flight, stuff's where you need it to be. A standby ASI would be nice, but there's not much room in the -3.

With the advent of the improved mapping software on the AFS, you could go without the Garmin, but the XM is nice to have if you're making trips.

TODR
 
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My Reworked Panel

Kevin,

I have a very similar list of instruments and radios that you do, and I really like your layout. I also like Randy's. Here is how I did it:


640480panelpicyx2.jpg


A couple of differences:

1. I bought but did not use use the air gizmos mount, I just used the mount that came with the 496 and screwed it to a 0.065 sheet mounted in back of the instrument panel using 3 3/16 SS screws. The air gizmoes took too much panel space. If you want it, I'll make you a deal.

2. I used the AFS-3500 instead of the 3400. I'm old. My eyes are bad. The screen is BIGGER.

3. I actually had to land my -4 once without an airspeed indicator (another story.) The 496 coupled with wind from AWOS made it a piece of cake non event. If the GPS is working I don't think you need A/S if you have enough runway length. Just go in at normal aproach speed minus approximate headwind plus a margin you are comfortable with, say 10 knots.

4. I replaced the cross member with one lower than the radios. I put the electrical system swithches on it, and the circuit breakers.

I thought about all the different modes of failure, and since both the GPS and the EFIS have back up batteries, they should not both fail at the same time. And although I wouldn't want to under any kind of normal circumstance, I have flown the GPS under the hood, and it is doable.

Keep up the good work. You will like it.
 
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