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N282RV

Well Known Member
I know I saw some "hooker" like seat belts but I cant find the web site again. anyone know what I was looking at. They were on a bail out parachute site if I remember right and they are experimental seat belts with a rachet system just like the hookers. price was about 250$......
 
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that seatbelts in your experimental were one of the few things that required an FAA certification...or did I hear that wrong?

I hear that some DARs require the documentation. You wanna chime in here, Mel?
 
nope they are hooker "like" not actual hookers..I sure wish I would have made a favorite of the web site when I saw it. And as for the question on the "legalitys" of seat belts, It is an "experimental" you could use ropes if you wanted, albet a bit hard to get signed off but a well designed seat belt is a belt, be it for a race car or an airplane. You should have no probs with a "non-aviation" belt as long as the fit and function are there.
just my 2 cents
thanks
 
Crows....

I am extemely happy with my Crow harnesses - finished off with Schroth shoulder pads. They meet specs for all types of racing - I figure if they fail, I wouldn't have survivied anyway....

Paul
 
Seatbelts

Ironflight

Which of the Crow harnesses are you using and what size/length.

Bill
 
N282RV said:
nope they are hooker "like" not actual hookers..I sure wish I would have made a favorite of the web site when I saw it. And as for the question on the "legalitys" of seat belts, It is an "experimental" you could use ropes if you wanted, albet a bit hard to get signed off but a well designed seat belt is a belt, be it for a race car or an airplane. You should have no probs with a "non-aviation" belt as long as the fit and function are there.
just my 2 cents
thanks
Click to expand...

I don't know about ropes (5 point harness, rope burn....yikes :eek: ). It'd be pretty cool to do a velcro restraint system, though. Fuzzy stuff on the back of your flight suit, prickly stuff on the seat.

I actually remembering seeing something like this somewhere (nothing having to do with aviation)....I can't remember the context, but I remember it was pretty funny.
 
Bill,

I'm using the 50" five-point with the rotary cam locks. I ordered them from one of the speed shops on the web - or I may have gotten them direct from Crow's site (I have this HUGE pile of reciepts from airplane building!) - can't rememebr now. They fit my -8 perfectly! :D

Paul
 
I'll just add that I spoke with Crow guys a while back, and you can order 1/4" hardware (special order).. their standard (for automotive use) is 1/2 bolts.. which is not what we use on RVs.

I haven't ordered mine yet, but looks like it'll be Crow.. I'll probably go for V-type harness and camlocks.
 
What size crow belts?

I'm using the 50" five-point with the rotary cam locks

Ironflight,

What width belts are you using 2" or 3"? The 3" seem rather wide for our use. Did you have any difficulty attaching them with the standard 1/2 bolt? Would you recommend the 1/4 modification they offer?
 
More details...

I'm using the 3" belts. They fit fine, and I liek the wider belts for comfort.

I also used a bushing in each hole to reduce the size from 1/2" to 1/4". Very easy to do. The bushing are just regular AN washers that press in perfectly using your pnuematic rivet squeezer! I never bothered to ask Crow if they could make the fittings in the other size.

Paul
 
tonyjohnson said:
What width belts are you using 2" or 3"? The 3" seem rather wide for our use.
Click to expand...

You've probably already found 'em, but check the Jr. Dragster harness; 5 point, 40" long, camlock, 2" wide belts.
 
Wider better?

Ironflight said:
I'm using the 3" belts. They fit fine, and I like the wider belts for comfort. Paul
Click to expand...
3" for safety? You have less give with the wider belt. For those who remember, on the RV-6, Van used a shoulder harness that was web all the way back to point where secured to airframe. The long web attached at an aft point, behind the aft baggage compartment wall. The long nylon web gave too much fwd stretch. In a forward crash you hit the instrument panel easily with the original set-up. Now Van uses a steel cable on the RV-6/7/9. IF you have the old all web set-up you should change it to the steel cable.

The 3" would keep you more secure and keep you from hitting interior structure in a crash. Nylon straps give under load. The cockpit is a small space and you don't want to move to much in an crash. George
 
Silver Parachutes also offers seatbelts and harnesses for experimental aircraft.
http://www.pia.com/silver/
They also sell the ratcheting belt for acro.
I have a set and they are great folks to work with and their product is comparable to Hooker. (I've had Hooker in previous planes.) I think the prices are a little less, but you would have to compare, since I haven't looked at them lately.
 
Rotary Cam Buckle

For those with the rotary cam buckle, is it easy to get hooked in? I have never used one of these and wondered if there was alot of juggling involved to get all points into the cam at the same time.
Tinman
 
cam vs. lever

To add to Tinmans question, is the cam lock really any better? It is nicer looking perhaps, but almost twice the price if I read the prices correctly. There is something about the lever latch that just looks more secure.

I would enjoy hearing from those of you with experience with the cam lock.
 
Cam Lock vs. Lever

I don't want to start a huge debate, and I certainly think that the choice of the cam lock over the lever is something that everyone can decide for themselves. These are my reasons for going with the Cam Lock, and they don't necessarily apply to anyone else....

1) I have used the lever for years in some older planes, and sometimes it snags headset cords. Rare, yes, but annoying.

2) I am very used to the cam locks, having used them in the seats and harnesses in my "day job" for 25 years. To me, it has become second nature to reach for my bellybutton and twist.

3) I just think they look cooler! I like things that are symmetrical.

Pretty weak reasons, admittedly, but when the scales are well balanced, small differences decide....

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As for ease of hooking up, I don't seem to have any trouble pulling the pieces together and fastening them - but then, I've been using this type of buckle so long that it is second nature to me. (You set the buckle to the "fastened" position, and then plug in each element separately - you don't have to hold them all together and then fasten, if that is your concern.)


Paul
 
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I like the camlock better too. Some of them are spring loaded so you don't even have to set anything to the "lock" position.

One thing I never liked about the Hooker harness: When I just starting out doing aerobatics, I did some emergency egress training with my instructor. You would be surprised how easy it is to get hung up in the Hooker harness. It's just really bulky. If I ever get around to building a Pitts, it'll likely have a Hooker aerobatic harness, but I'm not putting it in the RV.
 
interesting thread-- Hooker alternatives.

I spent too much time on Hooker's website earlier, few picts, no explanations about Rotary's. (that I could find) so here I am- "search"ing for another company, any other company.

I was going to use the military style this time instead of the Chevy style from Van's since they aren't that easy to use. And I didn't want to use rotarys because of passenger confusion. (but have to beg family to fly)

but i LIKE plugging into a rotary style, I have Deists in my car.

And I noticed the 3" Paul, yeah, they certainly DO give more support and keep you in place. But bigger latches and more sweat too.

I'm going to see if a couple guys with three inch belts will let me sit in their plane before I make a decision.

When you hit turbulence those 3 inch belts would really help.

thx for all the links too.
 
Years ago when I was buying harnesses for my SNJ I called Hooker and asked them what the difference was between thier FAA certified harness and thier regular dragster harness as they looked the same but the aviation harness was three times the cost of the regular. His reply was they are exactly the same except for that FAA-TSO tag sewn into the aircraft harness. I'm putting Crows with the rotery latch in my 7. Don
 
Harness Manufacturers

There are quite a few automotive racing harness manufacturers out there. The most well know IMHO are Simpson, Crow, Willans, Schroth, Sparco and Corbeau. All make excellent 5 and 6 point harnesses in mechanical latch and camlock configurations. Be sure you buy only SFI or FAI approved systems. Prices for SFI and FAI approved racing restraint systems range from $80 to $$$ per set. I went with a Schroth Profi II ASM with a five point crotch strap, rotary camlock, 2" lap belts and bolt in hardware for $250 per set. I'll add the Hooker pads for $50 and have a very nice looking and very functional restraint system. Here's the link to the Schroth site. http://www.schrothracing.com/products/competition/1597

Whatever restraint system you use, be sure that the shoulder straps attachment point is not more than 10 degrees below from the top of your shoulders. This is very important in the RV-4 and RV-8 installations. If the sholder harness attachment point is below this you risk spinal compression injury in an accident.

Al Thomas
N880AT
RV-8A - Finishing kit
 
you have a 2" lap and 3" shoulders? Always considered the lap should be bigger; but that sounds more comfortable.

thx for info. Sparco-- cool factor. :)
 
I received my Crows today and they are very nice. Can't be beat for $77 ea. w/free shipping. Its a little early to be ordering these but its been a while since I've bought anything so I really felt I needed to buy something and I convinced myself that these would not stay at this price for very long.
 
Ironflight said:
I am extemely happy with my Crow harnesses - finished off with Schroth shoulder pads.
Click to expand...
Hey, are those the "competition" pads? My shoulders got the **** beat out of them in the thermals Sunday and could use some padding.
 
I was part of the group buy from CROW last year and just got around to installing them this past weekend. To my surprise ( :( ) the shoulder harness was too short by about 12"(ordered standard "V" harness). I called Crow Monday morning and explained the problem. They said no problem , just send back the harness and they would ship out a "Y" style harness same day and no charge. Talk about customer service! I was very impressed to say the least. I Can highly recommend CROW.
 
:D UPDATE ON MY LAST INPUT ABOUT CROW Enterprizes

As per my conversation with Crow on Monday, I returned the shoulder hasnesses for exchange (Monday afternoon via UPS). They received them Tuesday, shipped the "Y" harnesses Tuesday and by late Wednesday afternoon I had the them installed. They now fit correctly and have plenty of adjustment (for future growth?). Again, all I can say is that this company knows what customer service is all about. Thank you Crow!!
 
Thanks Bill-

I just ordered 2.

3" web 50" Standard Latch 5 pt harness, with Y harness versus V harness.
I went with standard hole and will use bushings (ala Ironflight)

I'll pick up the shoulder pads a little down the road.

A real bargain at $85 each.
 
better seat belts

I see shoulder belts of little use unless they cross your chest. There used to be a seatbelt commercial where the ignorant lady stated "they wrinkle my dress". She was entirely right, if you find self tightening belts. Let's design without looking in any website. Start with a 3 inch lapbelt and a flip up release, not a Ford Granada style button or some stupid gimmick. No extra padding. Adjusts easily. Crossover shoulder harnesses can be buckled separately onto the lap belt or left unused. Same for a crotch belt. If ordinary bolt down ends aren't good enough, airlines have an eye screwed instead of the regular bolt and the seatbelt end clips onto the eye. Belts are easily removed for cleaning, servicing the plane, and changing around for cargo strapping. I don't see that you need a 5 point harness for the entire flight, especially when flying through hot humid conditions for hours. Unused belts shouldn't reel back, but should be stowable.
 
why start with a 3" lap?

disregard-- can't get 2" laps with 3" shoulders in USA.
 
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finally got my belts in for a test fit. I'll probably yank out my custom 5th point brackets and hard mount the sub straps.

never really understood why these rv4 lap belts don't go AROUND the seat.

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it feels really good having these in even though they're coming right back out. I bought the shoulder cushions too. Now i need to get some seats.
 
Crow Seat Belts

I just received my Crow #11177A seat belts. Ordered all 1/4" holes in bolt ends. 5-way kam lock and harness pads. Cost $200.00 plus 14.22 shipping. If your using a crotch strap the Vans crotch strap kit comes with a AN5 bolt but has a very small guide hole. Just drill it for an AN4. When I went to install the crotch strap kit I discovered I didn't reverse the ribs and the kit was a 1/2" short. Finally gave up on salvaging kit and ordered a floor mount set from Crow for $6.46 each. I'll beef up the area with a 4 x 5" .050.

Ron Russ, Canton, GA. RV9A
 
TSO

mark manda said:
finally got my belts in for a test fit. I'll probably yank out my custom 5th point brackets and hard mount the sub straps.

never really understood why these rv4 lap belts don't go AROUND the seat.

.......

it feels really good having these in even though they're coming right back out. I bought the shoulder cushions too. Now i need to get some seats.
Click to expand...

Mark... The seat belts are marked Schroth Racing, but are those FAA TSO tags on the lap belts?
Is that standard?

gil in Tucson
 
No, i wish they were. Schroth has an aviation division for belts.

the tags say FIA approved... which far surpasses aviation stuff, that's my opinion hope it flies with a FAA inspector.
 
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