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Dorfie

Well Known Member
I know that some time ago there was a scammer on this website, but I am lead to believe there are many out there. It seems the best protection against them is to consider any deal that seems too good to be true to be just that. In doing so, most bargains will fall through. I am looking at such an item now, and was wondering if there is advice out there as to how to safely persue what seems like a good buy. Is there a way to make sure that seller gets his money at same time as buyer gets the product? Can this be done using an escrow account like when buying a plane? (amount seems small for that). Any experience/advice?
Thanks.
Johan
 
Real simple...use COD with UPS. They UPS guy won't leave the pacakge until he has a check in hand! Easier and cheaper than messing around with an Escrow (has it's own set of issues).

Cheers,
Stein
 
I have used several methods.

A few years ago, a mechanic found a great deal on four io-360's. The mechanic purchased the engines and had them delivered. The boxes were pulled off the truck, and a friend of mine offered to buy one of the engines to replace an 0-300. The forklift delivered the box to his hangar. Before money was to change hands between my friend and the mechanic (mechanic had already paid the seller for the engines), we decided to open the crates. We excitedly pried the lid off and removed the packing material to find 300 pounds of bricks and concrete. All four boxes were filled with the same.

If the item I'm purchasing isn't local I use one of the following methods.

PayPal and eBay - Take advantage of the buyer protection offered by both if the seller has a history on the sites. I've asked a seller to list the item on eBay at the agreed price.

Pick it up in person. - I found a great deal on an RV-8 fuse. It was a 4 day road trip, but even after the cost of fuel and hotel, it was still worth it. It helps that my brother is a truck driver so he has picked up items for me too.

Reputation - I have purchased items from members of VAF including an RV-7 tail, wings, and fuse. I would be cautious of someone who joins and their first and only post is a for sale ad with a really good deal on a (high priced) item. I haven't gotten burned by anyone I purchased from on this site.
 
Biggest recommendation is to watch out for deals that seem "hinky". There's no hard criteria for that. It's just a gut feeling. If it feels "off" somehow, be more cautious. If the seller joined recently, be cautious. If they only have two or three posts, be cautious. If the price is too good to be true, be cautious. None of these, on their own, are necessarily reasons to run away from an offer, but if they all come at the same time, and the guy wants to meet you in a back alley or use Western Union for payment, consider letting it go. And maybe reporting it to DR.
 
Scammers are everywhere. This is about the best public site I've ever seen in that regard though, if you are careful.

If it's Garmin, avionics or an engine, and someone new...be very very wary. Click on their username here, and read their posts. Get to know them a little first. Heck, check out their N number registration, pilot cert, facebook and anything else you can use...we often don't like that this information is easy to find, but you might at well make the most of it.

Ask about meeting them to view the gear, regardless of where they or you are. Odd excuses or silence are a red flag.

Once you get it, make sure it works or is as described as soon as possible, and resolve any issues right away. As a seller, I wouldn't be as amicable a year later (sellers get scammed too!) and any 3rd party protections are likely expired.

eBay idea is good too -- although the seller may reasonably ask for a price increase to cover their eBay and Paypal fees (which can be from 2 to 15% all together...higher prices are lower in % fees).
 
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an old saw, but a good one....Buyer Beware!

One additional thought; I'd hate to be labeled a 'scammer' because the post office dropped an-otherwise functional radio or something I shipped to a buyer. ( obviously insurance is one way around this, but adds to the cost of the final 'bargain' item!)
Remember that used items sold here and elsewhere are 'as-is' and do not come with a warranty, most are "working when I took 'em out last year" and that's it.
I fully expect that if I am buying for 30 cents on the dollar, about 10 % of the used items that arrive will be flawed in some way, whether cosmetic, or functionally....that's just the expected cost of playing in the used market.

Heck, I sold a guy a BD-5 kit i had acquired, and of course, every single rivet, bolt, and rubber doohickey was 40-years old!....naturally, some usable, some not.
 
Dorfie said:
I know that some time ago there was a scammer on this website, but I am lead to believe there are many out there. It seems the best protection against them is to consider any deal that seems too good to be true to be just that. In doing so, most bargains will fall through. I am looking at such an item now, and was wondering if there is advice out there as to how to safely persue what seems like a good buy. Is there a way to make sure that seller gets his money at same time as buyer gets the product? Can this be done using an escrow account like when buying a plane? (amount seems small for that). Any experience/advice?
Thanks.
Johan
Click to expand...

The most common "red flag" we've seen on here lately is someone brand new selling a $30,000 engine for $15,000 (or whatever). We've seen several of these over the past few months. In a couple cases, these were legit. In one case, it was an engine shop that had nothing to do with RVs, trying a new avenue to drum up some business for themselves. In a couple cases, they were outright scams.

We moderators try very hard to weed out potential hazard posts. If there is something for sale here on VAF that seems "too good to be true", please send me an email of PM. We have some "back door" ways to check on who's posting what.
 
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If a item is on ebay look carefully at the feedback and what he has sold or purchased in the past. A 100 percent feedback on 20 items each a dollar is not much value. If the add has any unusual purchase requirements or especially says contact me for purchase do not bid on ebay then run!!!! This can apply to even a account with great feedback since it may have been hijacked.
The last thing is to ask for local pickup even if you can't. You can always have him ship it. If he says no local pickup then again run!!!
I just bid on a 696. Ebay account had feedback but was from Indonesia. Stated in questions however that he had moved to NY and item would ship from there. I did not like that but planned to pick it up if I won. I was not the high bidder but within 2 hours of auction close got a second chance offer from the seller at my bid price. He said the winner had backed out. Sent him a email back and said great I will take it and can pick up tomorrow. Got a reply in bad english. No local pickup possible, item with shipper already, have to call in your address with him. Same ad and scam has been back on ebay a few times.

George
 
Thanks to all for the input. Great advice. Just to be clear, the item I was looking at was not on this site, but on Barnstormers (GNS430W). My gut feeling is to back off for now, even though it might be a very ligit sale. Nor do I want to imply that the seller is a scammer.
Thanks.
Johan
 
There was a 430W for sale on here a few weeks ago that looked too good to be true. Turns out as far as I know it was a real bargain but most of the ones that are being advertised for that price are scams. I always look at the going rate for similar stuff in similar condition and compare. Ebay lets you look at the last 90 days worth of sold item's final sale price and this is a good indicator of what used items are worth.

At this time if a good used 430W is being marketed for less than $6K I would be cautious. If closer to $5K then I would be very very cautious. Less than that and most likely it is a scam. The non WAAS 430's are still going for $5000 to $5500 so this should be an indicator of what a WAAS unit should be worth since it takes $3K to upgrade a non W to W.

A year from now the price of 430's and 430W's may drop due to the number of people upgrading to the new models. This never did happen in the past with the intro of the W models so we will have to wait and see how the new models impact the used prices.

The one on Barnstormers for $5450 is one that I would be cautious about but might be a good deal. See if you can have someone local go check it out. Ask the guy for the history of the unit and the serial # then call Garmin to see if it is stolen or if his version of the history matches theirs.

Stein is always wheeling and dealing in this business and occasionally has some great deals. Contact him for a super low risk option!
 
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homework

I recently brought a Dynon system D100, D120 and HS34 from a first time poster on here. Did my homework and opted to pick up in person and got a great deal.
It cost me a bit to fly 500 miles each way but had a great day out and met some really nice people.

Peter
 
SteinAir said:
Real simple...use COD with UPS. They UPS guy won't leave the pacakge until he has a check in hand! Easier and cheaper than messing around with an Escrow (has it's own set of issues).

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, even that is not infallible. Several years ago I sold a computer and sent it UPS COD. The cashier's check the UPS driver collected was a forgery. At that point, it became an issue for the Secret Service but nothing ever came of the investigation.
 
I actually played one of the scammers games one time.:) I was selling something, I don't remember what it was, they sent me a company check
($40,000.00) on a machine shop in Michigan. I called the machine shop when I got the check, told them what happened, I sent the forged check to them. I don't know what they did from there.
:)I've had a little fun since with scammers. Just don't give out any information.

Marshall Alexander
 
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