U

USCANAM

Well Known Member
We're less than a month away from first flight in our -9A, so have been working in insurance.
I'm a 6000 hr. ATP, currently flying my One Design aerobatic plane.
Insurance is requiring me to have 1 hour CFI time in a RV9A before I can get insurance.
There are no 9A's in my area, (Cape Cod Mass.) and after having some discussion with the insurance rep, he thinks he might be able to get the carrier to accept time in a similar RV.
I'm wondering what others have done to satisfy the carrier's requiremnets.
Any suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated
Thanks All
Jack
N99552
 
Jack,

I was a 350 hr PPL w/ 150 hrs TW when I was ready for the first flight in my -9 (not -9A).

Initially Falcon asked for 3 hours in an RV-9. When I explained that there were probably on 12 RV-9's flying in the world they relented and said I only needed three hours in any side-by-side two seat RV tail dragger.

Thus a friend let me fly his -6 from the right seat for four hours. He wasn't even a CFI, which wasn't required.

Apparently I'll get a break on the rate when I pass 100 hours in type. My only fear now is that they will ding me for putting too many hours on it in a year.

In seven months I have flown it over 100 hours. :D
 
other side by side model

My insurance company accepted transition training in a 6A for my 9A.
 
RV Insurance

I just got quotes for insurance today.

550TT, 225 MM(make/model RV)
120 hrs last 12 months

Falcon
Liability only = $650(same as last year)
75K hull = $1950($100 < last year)

Avemco
Liability only = $800
75K hull = $4000

I can't believe Avemco's quote, twice as much.
I guess they're not interesetd in the experimental market.
 
Last edited:
You might try AUA. My RV-8 with 70k hull is $1450.00 per year. I do have a commercial insturment and a bunch of tail wheel time which helps. I also have about about 125 hours in the 8. Shop around and see what you can find. I've never had any luck with Avemco.
 
I got my 9A checkout in a 10

I had only 1100 hours, private with instrument and my insurance let me check out in an RV10.
The checkout ended up being 1.2 hours.
There was also a 2 hour solo requirement. So, for the first 2 hours after I bought my 9A I could not carry passengers.
 
The -9 is a fairly straight forward airplane and should be Ok for folks transitioning from most GA airplanes - it isn't twitchy, it isn't sluggish, it's ... just right. :) If you've only ever flown 172s, it might be a surprise, but you should be able to handle it. 1 hr CFI seems reasonable.

I've found the requirements for LSA much higher, FWIW. Most carriers require 3 hr CFI / 5 total for LSA insurance to become effective. However, unless you've been flying LSA all along, you might need it. They are light and have a different landing picture / feel - with full flaps, the CT is very nose down, for example. Most landing accidents in the CT and Evektor have been higher time pilots with minimal to no time in the accident airplane. In order to get my last CFI time, I had to travel from ADS to RHV (San Jose) and rent a CT there.

TODR
 
Falcon was satisified with 5 hours or a signoff in a nose gear RV. I got signed off by Mike Seager in a 10 and all was good with the world.

Jekyll
7A
 
Tom Schad said:
You might try AUA. My RV-8 with 70k hull is $1450.00 per year. I do have a commercial insturment and a bunch of tail wheel time which helps. I also have about about 125 hours in the 8. Shop around and see what you can find. I've never had any luck with Avemco.
Click to expand...

Need to remember - AUA, Falcon, Nationair, and others are aviation insurance brokers, not insurance companies. They don't have any say in the premiums, the pilot stipulations, limits offered, etc. They go to the insurers and bring back the quotes from - hopefully - multiple companies for us to choose from. Avemco is the exception to that. They are a direct writer.

If AUA and Falcon are bringing you different terms, something's different in the request or the quote, because the've both shopped the same markets. Different limits, different pilots, different hull value - something.

The actual insurers are AIG, Global Aerospace, Phoenix, USAIG, US Specialty, and some others.

Generally, if you don't like the terms your broker is giving you - blame the market. Going to another broker probably won't help. If you don't like the person you are dealing with - switch brokers and use someone you like / trust.

My $0.02.
 
Jeff, would I be correct in saying that if the RV community drastically lowered our accident rate then our insurance rates would drop?
 
Ron Lee said:
Jeff, would I be correct in saying that if the RV community drastically lowered our accident rate then our insurance rates would drop?
Click to expand...

In general and in theory - Yes. However, airplane insurance doesn't necessarily follow the theory because the law of large numbers can't really apply. There are more cars in 2 miles of rush hour freeway traffic than there are airplanes in the entire US. In a niche as small as aviation insurance - especially a niche within a niche like expirimental insurance - premiums are very market driven. You have 2-3 companies insuring RVs. A drastic drop in losses MIGHT make a few other companies want to get (back) into the business. That would make rates drop some.

FYI - rates are dropping across the board right now. Cessna a Bonanza drivers - and Gulfstream drivers;)! - are seeing the biggest reductions. The RVers should be seeing a little drop, too.

I guess my original point was - You can shop 100 brokers if you want. But they all go to the same 2-3 markets for quotes. Once those 2-3 markets have quoted you - that's it. Take your pick.
 
JDRhodes said:
FYI - rates are dropping across the board right now. Cessna a Bonanza drivers - and Gulfstream drivers;)! - are seeing the biggest reductions. The RVers should be seeing a little drop, too.
Click to expand...
So true!

My first quote, a year before I was ready to fly was around $2,200. When I bought the insurance prior to moving to the airport that same quote came down to $1,850. I expect that to drop again when I renew because I now have over 100 hrs in type and the plane is also proven. At least that's what I'm telling my wife.
 
insurance

>Thus a friend let me fly his -6 from the right seat for four hours. He wasn't even a CFI, which wasn't required. N941WR <

just a word of caution here

when you flew your friend 6 from the right seat who manipulated the controls (ie. who was the PIC ?)

if you were the PIC then you guys flew w/o insurance coverage during that 4 hours ...as far as I know most insurance policies for experimental (RVs) do not cover pilots who are not specifically named in the policy


if your friend was the PIC then your insurance requirements were not met !!!!!

since everything turned out OK (no incidentduring that time) the issue is moot but keep that in mind for future references
 
Cannon

I see Cannon Aviation Insurance advertises they insure a lot of experimentals. Does anyone have any experience with them?
 
attson said:
>Thus a friend let me fly his -6 from the right seat for four hours. He wasn't even a CFI, which wasn't required. N941WR <

just a word of caution here

when you flew your friend 6 from the right seat who manipulated the controls (ie. who was the PIC ?)

if you were the PIC then you guys flew w/o insurance coverage during that 4 hours ...as far as I know most insurance policies for experimental (RVs) do not cover pilots who are not specifically named in the policy


if your friend was the PIC then your insurance requirements were not met !!!!!

since everything turned out OK (no incidentduring that time) the issue is moot but keep that in mind for future references
Click to expand...


I understand what you're saying but come on!!! It's obvious that he was PIC from the right seat but the owner would resume PIC if anything went wrong and needed an experienced "save". PIC is VERY fluid and basically comes down to whatever the 2 or more pilots agree to. There is obviously a huge amount of trust involved in this kind of operation but that's what friends are for. And in the end, PIC is whatever you log as there is no way for anyone to monitor our activities or audit out log books. Not in any way saying to lie but just how would an insurance company prove PIC didn't count in that situation?

And yes you are correct, if there was an incident on that flight and the owner claimed not to be PIC he would not be covered most likely. But there have been similar situations in AOPA's legal articles where he'd (the owner) still be liable whether he claimed PIC or not so it's a lose lose for him. Still liable and not covered. So he would never claim to not be PIC in an incident.


All that said and BOT, don't give up on Avemco as they were the ONLY company that'd touch me when I bought my -4 with 3 hours TW and no endorsement yet. Required 10 dual in similar (-6 with Alex DD) and came in at $3300 on a 50k hull. Down to 2900 with 25 in type now and the next break comes in an additional 100 or so in type (down another 10% I think). Bottom line, check with everyone as you never know who's going to come out best and there can be big differences.
 
Another quick thought, with the stock market down insurance usually can not go down. Premiums at least in part are a reflection of how much money the Ins. Cos. can make while holding our money. If they can make a ton in the market they can charge less for premiums and still make a profit after loses to claims. The opposite is true right now with the markets stagnant. So I wouldn't expect the insurance market to get cheaper in the near future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.