Bryan Wood

Well Known Member
There have been posts pertaining to RV's that have flown with both an 0-320 and then later with an 0-360 with information on performance gains. There are also the folks who have installed a constant speed after flying behind a fixed pitch and have shared information. Are there any of you who have flown your RV with the cowl and baffles that come with the kit and later installed the Sam James Cowl and plenum? If so what kind of differences did you see between the performance of the two?

Thanks,
 
I am in the process of putting a Sam James plenum and round inlets on my stock cowl. The plenum fits the engine fine but the inlets are off some so I will have to angle them a little. Grafting the round inlets and lips to the Vans cowl is a big job. I will have it done in a week or so but it is not something anyone will little knowledge of glasswork would want to tackle. I have talked to several people who run his cowl and all are pleased with the results. James claims the engine will run around 30 degrees cooler on CHTs and oil temp with this setup. He also claims a 7-10mph improvement in speed. Don
 
The fastest RV's all have.............

Bryan Wood said:
There have been posts pertaining to RV's that have flown with both an 0-320 and then later with an 0-360 with information on performance gains. There are also the folks who have installed a constant speed after flying behind a fixed pitch and have shared information.
Right that data is almost exactly right off the Vans web site and specs. Going from 160 to 180 HP is only 7 or 8 mph! HP translates more into better climb performance, not top speed. HP never hurts but drag reduction is key to going fast. BTW Constant speed v Fixed and top speed - Constant speed advantage is on takeoff, climb, landing and better overall efficiency but not necessarily top speed.

Are there any of you who have flown your RV with the cowl and baffles that come with the kit and later installed the Sam James Cowl and plenum? If so what kind of differences did you see between the performance of the two?
Unfortunately most do this mod from the start or don't take good before/after data. Some time builders make many mods at the same time but James aircraft claims:

"Average speed increase with the cowl and cooling plenum alone is 7-10 m.p.h."​

I have no reason to doubt this from my research. Take a look at James aircraft yahoo group and read back messages. You may want to join and post there.

I'd point out that even if its only 7 mph, which is really significant, it is equal adding 16 HP or more! Look above 20 HP is 8 mph! So its at least like adding 16 mph or even 20 hp, depending how you cut it. However its not a miracle. If the plane is cockeyed and draggy to start with, your milage might vary as they say.

The difference with drag reduction verses HP is it's the gift that keeps on giving and does NOT BURN MORE FUEL!

Another data point. Every RV that holds a record or top race finish almost with out exception has a "holy cowl" and solid plenum (no soft seals) of some kind. Whether it's a custom homemade or Barnard/James aircraft cowl/plenum, the fastest have some sealed set-up. The engineering or science behind this is without question and well documented.

Now why would you not do it? Well I suggest you do, but there are some draw backs I suppose. Some minor like upper spark plug maintenance may be more difficult. The decision to make this mod is up to you. Going stock and following the plan is usually always a good suggestion when it comes to time to build, cost and weight. In this case the gain I think is worth any extra build time, cost or weight.

Of any one of the major airframe mods, the cowl/plenum is top on my list. It is easier and cheaper to do the first time on a new build. Fitting soft seals on the stock baffle is not much fun either.

Most find fitting James Aircraft cowl takes longer to install than stock. I do prefer Van's stock epoxy/nomex core cowl construction over the James aircraft solid laminate cowl. The quality of glass is very good but it is a little heavier than stock. He has plans (I think) for an equivalent epoxy/nomex core cowl. James aircraft has offered a short cowl version for some time. The big issue, at least for me, was SJ cowls only came in a "long" version, which required a longer prop hub or extension. Not the case any more. "Long" cowls need constant speed props with a longer hub and they are more expensive and are not approved for aerobatics. With fixed pitch its a non issue, most go for the longer cowl. It is only an inch & half or two inch longer. Fixed prop extensions are relatively cheap.

You can modify the stock cowl and make your plenum as the above poster did and I am. It is more work but I would not say its super hard; you can always learn. However this may be the choice for those with existing fitted cowls. The savings in cost and time to keep your old cowl which is already fitted, may off set the involved fiberglass work you need to glass rings in and make a plenum. Now you can just glass over the existing inlets and plunk in rings, it will not look as pleasing or be as aerodynamic. The inlets are built forward of the stock inlets just behind the prop. Aluminum rings are available to purchase, or you can glass in the inlet shape directly, if you are good.

Frankly on the aesthetics front, I like the round cowl look but some do not. Some go half way with a sealed plenum, while keeping the stock cowl inlet. There was a thread on this recently. Some chimed in it would not make a difference in speed, but I would submit they don't know. The issue we are discussing is good before/after data again. You will not see 7 mph from a sealed plenum only, but you may pick up some speed. Part of the whole package, the full meal deal, is going from about 44 sq-inch inlet area to about 25 sq-inch while maintaining the same cooling. That is done by eliminating the internal leaks, reverse flow and making better transitions, ie less turbulent.
 
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The new James cowls appear to have the same sort of construction that Van's use. I have the older format, but a local buddy bought a new one recently, and they have gone to some form of hybrid/multi layeres setup.

It may take a little more time, I'm not really sure. It does not line up perfectly out of the box, but it seems as good, and maybe a bit better than the Van's installations I have witnessed.

I only installed it to try and make back some of the speed I am losing with my smaller engine. I also think it looks cool....which is not a very scientific view, I realize, but hey coolness counts with RV's.
 
Some additional thoughts on SJ stuff

If you are willing to go to the trouble, James also offers wheel pants which are narrower than Van's and thus offer smaller flat plate area. He accomplishes this by offsetting. In other words, the tire is not in the center of the fairing. He covers the brake and the outboard attach is directly to the hub. So, now you can measure the difference in width. For the nose wheel, it is also narrower, but the wheel is centered. The brackets are smaller.

George is correct, I think, that you can go with a shorter SJ cowl and that they are making it with the honeycomb core, now. I have the longer, solid version and it seems fine to me. I don't do aerobatics.

I cannot offer any comparison, though, as I did these mods while building.
 
FWIW

Sam James gives a work shop on building a main gear fairing at OSH each year, I've seen it twice. He is one heck of a nice guy. Lot's of free information on the process and where to get the materials he uses which generally come from the boat race world where he was very successful before moving on into aviation.

He seems to be a very straight shooter.
 
Any idea on what the price difference is when buying the Holy Cowl and deleting the Van's cowl from the finishing kit?
 
When I did mine

It was about a wash if you made your own baffles and didn't count the prop extension.

Oh I have a Hatrzell C/S BA prop, a 2.25" extension and I do do aerobatics.

So far I have set +5 and -1.5G ...When I finally get up to the inverted spin i expect to see -2G...:)


Frank 7a
 
acro and Mr. Prop extension

frankh said:
Oh I have a Hatrzell C/S BA prop, a 2.25" extension and I do do aerobatics.

So far I have set +5 and -1.5G ...When I finally get up to the inverted spin i expect to see -2G...:) Frank 7a
I am such a stinker, but acro is not recommend by Hartzell or Lycoming; I know because I asked them. Some one had to say it, sorry Frank no offense just info. For the record the prop extension device Frank has is not an integrated longer prop hub, but it's a Saber Mfg extension, a third member between the prop flange and crank flange. They make nice stuff, but again according to Lycoming and Hartzell (I asked them) its not recommended either. It does change the stress plane, but the good news, it should not shift any rpm restrictions significantly (again I asked). Clearly with a third member Saber extension makes two joints where there was one. No argument, just the messenger, passing on Lycoming's and Hartzell's message.

To be fair 3.8 G's is allowed with Hartzell's longer hub props. You can do most acro at or about 3 G's (or at least the Acro I do). Not sure why you are pulling 5 G's Frank? Red line is 6 G's. Be careful buddy. -2G inverted spin? ha-ha he-he, we're going to have to call you Maverick. :D
 
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Spark Plug Maintainence Not an Issue

On my plane, just three little screws on each side and the plenum comes off, so spark plug access is not an issue. Sam told me to take the 7 MPH claim with a grain of salt.

The RV-7 that my 6A shares a hanger with has a very simple homemade fiberglass plenum with a stock cowl that works great.

The builder says it cools great, very even.

Hans
 
Let Sam say it?

I have talked many times with Sam and with his son Will. I have never gotten any hint that they don't believe in what they say. Nor would Sam's background with racing boats suggest hype. George has correctly pointed out that the fastest airplanes, RV's and others, usually have a cowl and plenum that uses the same principles and often comes from James. I don't know what Sam said and even if that quote is 100% accurate it can be taken in opposite ways. If we are to attach importance to that quote we should allow Sam to "explain" it.
 
cowl and plenum

This started with the question has anybody flown there plane without the sam james stuff and then with it

Yes i did

i have an rv-7 with an 0-320 H2AD motor std vans cowl and a sensich prop and flew that up to 95 hours

I installed the plenum and moded the cowl this was alot of work becasue the plenum is not made for the H2AD motor

I have gained about 8 mph on cruise nothing on climb and about 100 rpms, that is a problem now becasue of the 2600 rpm limit so very soon my catto prop will arrive and i can try that,

the other big gain is that on a climb out my #4 cly EGT would get very high and now it dosen't

The looks i find is great

I have just started a 10 and i'm planning on using the james cowl and plenum on that as well

the new prop will let me get to 2700 rpm which means it will probaly burn a little more fuel but i will see if it is any faster now i'm in the high 190's often
my biggest reason for the prop is the climb hoping to get a little more if i keep my rpm now at 2450 rpm i burn about 7.5 gph it is not bad for a motor that has 1530 hours on it, it burns one quart every 20 hours

ken in maine