RV10Rob

RV10Rob

Well Known Member
Hi, all... from reading the archives, I've heard nothing but good things about SafeAir1 and their pitot-static kit, but $85 seems pricey compared to what Van's offers. Assuming I don't care about the look of the ports themselves, are there significant advantages to the SafeAir1 kit? I'm assuming the fittings are "better," but does it matter?

Thanks...

-Rob
 
If I did it again, I would probably just save my money and do it the tried and true Van's way. A number of people have reported airspeed errors with the SafeAir ports, but not everyone. That said, I'm so far happy with the Safeair Kit. I originally decided for it since I needed to buy their mount for my Dynon AOA pitot anyway.
 
Having bought both, I'd go with the SafeAir1 over Van's because their stuff seems to be much higher quality. I agree with Bill, if you surface mount them they're much more likely to be accurate than if you try to make them flush.

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
 
The earlier ones had less of a boss on them and thus did not stick out much past the side skin.

The new ones do stick much further out past the side skin. I just recieved mine last week I think and they look great.

I do not think people are having the same problem with the newer ones.

Safeair is a great company and the quality of the product is much higher than the Van's method.

Yes Van's method works but I just don't like the look of the install from the inside. Something about gobbing RTV around a tube stuck on the end of a pop rivet that just does not do it for me.

I will be drilling a hole and prosealing them to the inside. Looks very nice when completed both inside and out.
 
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Alternative pitot and static tubing

Was it Gil who said in some thread to use STC Valve's 90 degree push-in fitting with Dynon. Anyway -- the STC valve has for sure all fittings SafeAir1 is offering for a significantly lower price and they offer quite variety of polyurethane tubing as well for pneumatic applications. Is this tubing suitable for pitot and static? $24/100ft ain't bad price for 1/4" OD tube if comparing to SafeAir1's offering... :confused:

What is the material of the SafeAir1's tube anyway? I haven't found any info from their pages...
 
That STC site looks like a cheap carbon copy of all the genuine SMC products.

The stuff that SafeAir sells is made by SMC and is DOT approved for use as brake lines on large over the road transfer trucks.

I have used tons of the regular industrial SMC products and I can tell you that the quality of the stuff SafeAir sells is much better than the regular industrial stuff.

The design of the fittings is much better as well as they have a built in ferrule and great quality Oring.

The tube and fittings sold by SafeAir are made to compliment each other for the best seal and long life in harsh conditions.
 
Safeair tube

Ok, I can answer this. I work for Bendix, the air brake system people. It's air brake tubing meeting SAE J944, generally nylon over teflon. Use it, it's great stuff. I do - I bought the kit.

Best hint I have is to consider pre-forming. Make your 90 deg bends under boiling water, hold them while they cool out of the water, and they should hold the bend. You can get really nice shapes that way.

The fittings supplied are from SMC, and while they are not my favorite, (I would not use them outside the cab of a heavy truck, for sure) they are good. The weak link in all PTC fittings are the orings anyway - so listen closely: Cut off the tube ends squarely. Not kinda, not about but SQUARE with a SHARP blade. Not scissors, dykes, or some ratty old pruning shears you've got laying around. Make sure the edge left is clean, lube the end a bit (general purpose biolube is fine = yes, a little saliva) push it in firmly, then give it a tug to set. If you have to disassemble, push in on the collar firmly and pull the tube back out. Reusable. Good practice to cut a fresh end, though.

Rick 90432
 
STC fittings

Brantel said:
That STC site looks like a cheap carbon copy of all the genuine SMC products.

The stuff that SafeAir sells is made by SMC and is DOT approved for use as brake lines on large over the road transfer trucks.

I have used tons of the regular industrial SMC products and I can tell you that the quality of the stuff SafeAir sells is much better than the regular industrial stuff.

The design of the fittings is much better as well as they have a built in ferrule and great quality Oring.

The tube and fittings sold by SafeAir are made to compliment each other for the best seal and long life in harsh conditions.
Click to expand...


I bought a sample selection of the STC products and they look fine for our application.

The specifications are good and a higher temp. limit of around 165 F (check their web site) and a reasonable pressure to full vacuum. I did not make a general posting to the VAF since when I talked to them a while back they were having supply problems with the polyurethane tubing supplier and would not have stock for a few months. The use of polyurethane tubing is fine for our application. I was waiting for their supply of colored polyurethane tubing to return.

Their prices are not that much different from the high end suppliers (e.g., Clippard, and one of the Clippard owners lives on our airpark...:)...) But to get Clippard's reasonable prices you have to buy a lot of 50.

STC sells over the web with no minimum $$ or quantity order, which is a major advantage to us. The manufacture of these parts is all going to China, no matter who you buy them from... but that is a separate discussion...

Brian, would you like one of the STC parts to look at? I can mail you one...

Carbon copies are not necessarily bad...:) ... perhaps you could call them xerox copies?

gil A
 
Pressures

rjcthree said:
Ok, I can answer this. I work for Bendix, the air brake system people. It's air brake tubing meeting SAE J944, generally nylon over teflon. Use it, it's great stuff. I do - I bought the kit.
......
Rick 90432
Click to expand...

Rick... what operating pressures do these brake systems see?

Are they vacuum or pressure?

Luckily, our pitot/statics systems are near atmospheric...:)

Is the heavy duty tubing overkill? I personally wanted flexible tubing, not stuff I needed to preform....

gil A
 
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Vans Standard

Keeping with the common theme to most of my comments, I can not imagine anything simpler, easier to install, more accurate, tested, or proven with more flying machines than Vans stupid pop rivet port. Thousands flying, never heard of an issue, looks great if you can even see them, and you can not see from the inside unless you pull panels. To each his own I guess....

Regardless which system, do take care in routing the tubing to insure that the tube is lower than the port, at least where it is near the port, in the unlikely event that water finds its way in.
 
J944 response to Q's

Q: what operating pressures do these brake systems see? Are they vacuum or pressure?

A: Air brake systems in North America have a max operating pressure of 0-150 psig. PTC/tubing joints have expectation of 0 sccm leakage rates.

Q/S:Luckily, our pitot/statics systems are near atmospheric...

A: Yes and no, when it comes to seals. Many, including most gas-orings, depend on some pressure to 'reinforce' the sealing forces exerted by the elastomer itself.

The robustness that the J944/DOT(which is a bad copy of J944 - trust me, I had a hand in them - SAE can say things the Gov't can't) stuff brings to table is what you are looking for. Vibe, UV, chemical,temp, and probably most important - age resistance - is what this stuff brings. Life of the vehicle is what we expect - which today is 20K operating hours, 1 million miles. Going with the knock offs is generally a bad plan, and personally I choose vehicular qualified parts over general industrial parts, when both are available.


Q: Is the heavy duty tubing overkill? I personally wanted flexible tubing, not stuff I needed to preform....

A: You don't need to preform - at all. It just makes for the ability to be a little artistic, do multiple bends, slicker. Come on - we each have a trick or neat thing we did different than everybody else - and love to show it off. You've just found mine ;)


Having it available in colors is nice too.

Rick 90432
 
Seals and tubing

rjcthree said:
.....
Q/S:Luckily, our pitot/statics systems are near atmospheric...

A: Yes and no, when it comes to seals. Many, including most gas-orings, depend on some pressure to 'reinforce' the sealing forces exerted by the elastomer itself.

Rick 90432
Click to expand...

Isn't this where the softer polyurethane tubing is better for our applications than the relatively stiff nylon/teflon? The end of the tube (cut very square. like you mentioned) provides a part of the seal, as well as the internal O-ring.

The brake application you mention is constantly under pressure pulses to add to any seals, our application is not....


Polyurethane...

Temperature Range -40 to 176? F (-40 to 80? C)

1/4 inch - min. bend radius - 0.91"

Ditto on the colors...

PneumaPU4.gif


I think industrial is OK for our specific application.... a lot of folks are using hardware store stuff with a very low upper temp. limit... I like to use stuff within it's specifications....:)

gil A
 
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