unclecameron

I'm New Here
Hi all,

I've been lurking and scrimping future RV $'s to plop down on a 4 or 6, depending on how much I can sneak out from the grocery money, ostensibly to buy something for cross-country with wife in-tow behind or beside me (and hopefully slightly more than a ham sandwich style space for baggage).

Question: Can you/Is it wise to make an RV-4 IFR, and just how much of IFR can they take? Forgive me if this is posted elsewhere (link?). I know you could ride a skateboard around the world if you REALLY wanted to but...general consensus, is this wise or should I be hunting for Cessna style uber-slug of the days of yore with all the sexiness of a nightie sewed up at the bottom? Same for the RV-6, would love to know if it's just a matter of not being all thumbs and having the mental capacity to count past 20 while clothed. We're shooting for a flight a couple times a month of 700-800 miles north through California and Oregon, that would be the standard venture, with intentional bad navigation occasionally to overfly nice country here and there, er, maybe the whole rest of the country :)

Thanks,
Cameron Camp
San Diego
 
IFR in an RV4 or RV6

There have been RV4s and RV6s flown around the world, and they seem to do ok. Properly equipped, they seem to be excellent cross country machines.

No doubt you'll get some first-hand feedback from many of the people here who have done a lot of XC flying in their machines.
 
RV-6A

I planned to fly my RV-6A IFR bare bones level - one VOR/LOC/GS, SL-60 com/GPS, MAP 360 moving map display, vacuum pump driven AI and DG, electric Turn Coordinator, wet compass, mode C transponder, airspeed indicator, altimeter, vertical speed indicator. I literally flew coast to coast and more in this configuration and in IFR flights it was a serious handful and ATC warnings about altitude and heading were not uncommon. Then I installed a couple of Tru Trak autopilot systems, Pictorial Pilot for course and Altrak for altitude hold, and I'm able to relax a lot. I would like a second VOR to use my old approach methods but I have worked out some new procedures with the Pictorial Pilot and the GPS display to enable real time recognition of final approach fixes, step down fixes, etc. My recommendation is to go in with an autopilot for course and altitude and an approach approved GPS (which I still don't have). If you fly to go places, VFR is the most fun way to fly but you need an IFR capability when the weather isn't cooperating and "bare bones" is not the way to go. Two other things that have to be considered are 1) some way to cope with the "paperwork" with a stick between your legs (I have two knee boards strapped to my legs) and 2) the chart needs. I still subscribe to Jeppesen for a three state area and buy a bunch of FAA terminal proceedures books and Low Altitude charts for almost every trip (both the cost and clutter are a problem).

Bob Axsom
 
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I agree 100% with Bob. While building, I let my IFR currency lapse, but I had an IPC shortly after getting my RV flying. Since then I have stayed current, and I just flew IFR last night...so this is a fresh perspective.

My feeling is -- with a well-built electrical system, high quality reliable avionics, and a good autopilot, an RV makes just as good of an IFR platform as anything else.

Without the autopilot, the RV can be a lot of work in IFR. I don't want to use the word "handful" -- because it only does what you tell it to do! It just means you really gotta be on the ball.

If you plan to fly IFR, there is no doubt: install an autopilot. 2-axis if you can afford it.
 
Bob always has good input...

My RV4 is basic IFR with no autopilot. It does great. If you can cruise VFR on top and then plan a descent through a layer, no problem. If you have to make an approach to minimums, again no problem... as long as you are current and proficient. I don't have a GS, so I can't shoot ILS. That I will change, because I love precision approaches, AP will relieve work load. Yada, yada... all the stuff you know. But the RVs are underestimated in regard to their IFR capabilities, IMO.

I will say that my 4 will spiral easily. Since it builds speed quickly and wanders to the fuel heavy wing side, you need to be on top of it - especially in IMC. But as a pilot who has flown an RV XC quite a bit and in IMC a fair amount, I endorse the plane as a good IFR platform. It is not, however, for a barely qualified or rusty IFR pilot.
 
Is any single engine single pilot airplane "Really IFR" capable? :eek:

It all depends on the pilot. Common wisdom is a wing leveler auto pilot is a good thing.

With three relatively cheap experimental autopilots on the market, Trio, Trutrak and Nav-aid, its not hard to gain that ability (for less about $1700).

My RV-4 was also IFR (full Cessna equivalent vac powered analog panel, GS/LOC/VOR minus ADF) and no autopilot. I made a few IFR departures to climb to VFR. It also came in handy a time or two for enroute "pop-ups" for an IFR let down thru a under-cast to VFR. Also going into busy airspace, LA area for example, filing IFR flightplan, even in VFR conditions is easier than driving in VFR. Would I do it again? No. I am building my RV7 VFR but with attitude and autopilot wing leveler. I have no desire to get into intentional or inadvertent IMC, but flying at night can be Inst conditions. I may add a Val INS (all in one nav unit) for "IFR" nav in the future. I am sure there will be a day when the field is IMC and know a short 30 second climb will get me ontop and on my way. However I don't want to haul around the weight and antennas around for that once every other year occasion. Now some folks live at fields with marine layers or morning fog that makes early VFR departures impossible. IFR equp just to get out may be well worth it. Just depends on where you live and your needs and skill.

I made a few "real" IFR approaches (none really to mins) and occasionally went IFR enroute. However after many years of flying, about 1000 hours, I estimated my total RV-4, IFR time in the plane was a very small percentage of the total. I found my self wanting to do aerobatics, fly X-C to sight see for fun, not practice my instrument scan.

To answer the question, CAN YOU DO IT? Yes but because you can does not mean you should. There have been a few articles or impressions of flying IFR in RV's. The precise control and speed makes it good for IFR. It can also make it bad for some pilots IFR. On the other hand, its lack of roll stability and ability to build speed very fast if you get into an unusal attitude is a negative. Also a low time IFR pilot use to a C172 may get behind the RV with the faster speed.

Practice simulated IMC with a safety pilot in VFR and you decide. I am not going to tell you SURE. It may scare the heck out of you? I know it had my full attention when flying in IFR. Flying a C172/C182 without an autopilot with the greater room for charts is a little more relaxed. The tight cockpit can be a little bit of a hassle in a RV4 with a low alt enroute charts, but that is where a wing leveler comes in handy (or a must?).
 
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unclecameron said:
should I be hunting for Cessna style uber-slug of the days of yore with all the sexiness of a nightie sewed up at the bottom?
Cameron Camp
San Diego


I've often tried to come up with the words to describe the sensation that I feel when I see a Cessna. The best I could ever come up with was something to the effect of a crippled locust or similar. Cameron, have you ever thought of becoming a writer? At the least you could write some great country songs. :D You made my day!

Best,
 
Question on a similar tack - how difficult would it be to retrofit a QB 9A with a 2-axis AP, or is it ugly enough that I should just pick out an AP and plan on installing it as I build?
 
airguy said:
Question on a similar tack - how difficult would it be to retrofit a QB 9A with a 2-axis AP, or is it ugly enough that I should just pick out an AP and plan on installing it as I build?

Not too difficult, as the wing has several access bays. As another option, the roll servo can be also mounted under the seat. The altitude servo behind the baggage bulkhead isn't too tough either.

However, you can always get servo's now, and the rest later. I have both Trio & Trutrak. You can find drawings on the net.

L.Adamson --RV6A
 
Single Pilot IFR

George beat me to it, but here's my perspective as a single seat military pilot with IFR time in RV-8's as well as other aircraft.

First, the airplane. The FAR's spell out what is "required" to make the aircraft IFR legal. It's not a very exhaustive list of instruments. You can then run the gamut from "basic" IFR with no redundancy to full up glass with full round dial redundancy, autopilots, etc. What's the difference? The amount of risk you are willing to assume. The risk varies with YOUR experience levels as a pilot.

Next, the pilot. Many of us learned to fly IFR in the left seat of a Cessna or Piper. Even without an autopilot, these airplanes are relatively easy to trim well enough to go heads down in the cockpit long enough to review an approach plate, read or fold a chart, etc. Not so the RV's. Yes, you can trim them to fly hands off, but they require much more attention from you. (Here's where a good autopilot can help share the workload).

Pilot experience. Can you safely fly a minimally equiped RV (I'd offer that the model is irrelevant) single pilot IFR? It depends on YOU. Can you develop a good enough scan to avoid the many altitude and course warnings from ATC (and to avoid spatial disorientation while doing unusual attitudes in hard IMC)?

Acceptable IFR. There are many types of IFR in my book. Are we talking about a quick cloud break to get above a marine layer? Are we talking about flying through a cold front? Or how about shooting an approach to minimums? The equipment I'm comfortable with varies with what "type" of IFR I'm expecting. If I'm flying enroute IFR with relatively high ceilings below me at the enroute fields, my minimum equipment may be a little less robust than if all the fields are at or near minimums. Same for mountainous versus flat terrain.

Risk overall. How much risk is "safe" to you? I know guys that won't fly single engine at night. Others who will fly in almost any conditions. They all believe they are safe. Is a single vacuum ADI and a localizer only CDI good enough for you? I would offer that it primarily depends on your skill and experience as a pilot as well as a good understanding of backup systems. Personally, I will fly IFR if I have a backup. An electric TC is enough for me as a backup (combined with A/S and Altimeter). However, I know for a fact and can demostrate that I can fly with those backup instruments. I've got a lot of training and experience that got me to this point. Would I have done that with a brand new IFR ticket? Not in a million years. Always underestimate your skill if you want to become that old pilot, rather than the proverbial short lived bold pilot. And always have a plan for when that 100% reliable instrument fails.

Just my $0.02 worth...

John
#40208 Wings
RV-8 94DW
 
Cameron,

My take on RV IFR fitness is spread throughout many posts above.

Aircraft stability/sensitivity are intertwined with pilot ability (or non-ability). Smoothing the differences is help from a two-axis autopilot. Roll is quick, but the real surprise to everyone I take for a first RV experience is the immensity of verticle response; from cruise, inattention can blow through 1,000 feet in a seconds, quicker than you can page to the desired plate or fold low-level charts.

The stick's in the way. There's little room to spread charts or hang approach plates.

Most important, how are you as an IFR pilot?

I restrict my IFRV-ing to popping through stratus or easy above-freezing surety amongst layers or tops for a limited time. Departures are really fun with 1,500 fpm and can get on top quick; less time to screw up! Build your ship IFR than you can IFR if everything else is right for that flight. But IFR capable will set you back, oh, $10K, over VFR, so is that added utility worth it to you?

John Siebold
 
Funny You Should Ask.....

I'm sitting here in my study in Houston, watching a steady rain that has been going on for several hours. Of course, I know that because I flew home from LOE in part of it, and have been watching the weather since last night. I timed my arrival between bands of storms coming in off the gulf (a couple hours apart - not tough), and flew the last half hour in light rain, in the clouds, to a satisfying GPS approach where I broke out about 1000' AGL. This was the first time in the year of flying the Val that I have done more IFR than simply popping up to VFR on top, or shooting a quick approach.

Interestingly enough, as I was typing that paragraph, I got a call from Doug Reeves, who is part of a flight of four returning to Dallas - VFR. We all got to the airport this morning before sunrise, knowing we could be in for a long day. They are now sitting in Abilene, waiting for a chance for the weather to get good enough to fly the rest of the way home. Having to fly under the kind of weather that is covering Texas today, all the way from El Paso, is probably a lot more tiring than what I did - but doing it IFR takes the right equipment!

I agree with all of the well-thought-out replies above - whether or not an RV works in IFR depends on how you approach it as a pilot and as a builder. I set out to make the Valkyrie a very capable traveling machine from the get-go. redundant GPS's, EFIS displays, and reliable power systems - along with a two-axis autopilot so that I can "manage" the flight, rather than try to keep up with just flying this fast and sensitive airplane.

I flew a big-engined Yankee IFR for many years, without an autopilot. It was, to say the least, a "high gain" activity. Hand flying in the clouds for more than a half hour was exhausting, and I wouldn't try and do that today, with the capability you can build in to an RV.

I left Donna Anna this morning with scattered clouds at about 300', and climbed between low layers as I turned towards El Paso and points east. I had the full route programmed into the GNS 430 ahead of time, and the course line was displayed on the EFIS. I engaged the autopilot after I had a good rate of climb, and let it turn to the assigned departure heading. I used my available time to make sure that what I was being asked to do - and what the airplane was doing - looked reasonable. I Didn't have to worry about keeping it right side up. In a couple of minutes, I was level at 9,000', adjusting power and mixture as I was cleared direct Fort Stockton VOR. A quick keystroke, and we skipped the intermediate waypoints. I crossed my arms, sat back, and scanned the panel to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Then I grabbed the apple that Martha Jane King had given me, and had breakfast. I was above the lower layers, and had only an occasional high cirrus above - glorious sunshine through the canopy. Of course, the rest of the folks were standing in the drizzle at Donna Anna.

I had little to do for several hundred miles but take the occasional frequency change and look at the weather ahead on my Garmin 396 . It was nice to not worry about staying on course and altitude while I scanned the METARS and looked at the Nexrad to see if my plan was going to work out. The Texas Hill Country was covered with low clouds - I was sure glad I wasn't trying to cross that scenic part of the world down low today, below the overcast (Which varied between 300 and 1000 feet!

It was clear to me that the ceilings and visibilities were improving in Houston, and I kept looking at the flight plan summary on my EFIS, which was telling me the time to each waypoint and the fuel remaining when I got there. My reserve stayed steady at about an hour and twenty minutes all the way, which was more than adequate with all of the ILS runways in the area. Aside from the climb out, the only cloud flying I got was in the last half hour in Houston, taking some vectors around rain showers as they set me up for the approach - and watching the same showers on my in-cockpit NEXRAD made me feel like I was able to keep Approach honest. I handled vectors by diddling the heading select knob on the EFIS as I was given each new heading, and only touched the stick to trim nose down for the step-down descents. Punch off the Altrak, get to the new altitude, punch on the Altrak.

The total flying time was 3:35, over a distance of 606 nautical miles. I landed with 11 gallons of fuel in the tanks, and was more relaxed than I can ever remember after flying a trip of that length with "iffy" weather. It takes equipment, training,and practice to do it all, which I guess is the point of this rambling story. You have to know how to say "No, I'm not going today!", but you'll have to say that a lot less often if you set your machine up properly.

The coolest part of the day? I got handed off from Center to Approach while I was descending to cross the first fix on the STAR, and after I made contact with approach,the controller asked "And sir, is that RV a turbine or a piston aircraft?" (It makes a difference in the crossing altitudes) I could only chuckle.....

Yes, properly equipped, the RV is a magic carpet, so long as you understand your systems completely, and keep a good eye out for escape routes if the weather gets bad. It's fast enough that I probably wouldn't recommend it for a new instrument pilot fresh out of Cessnas, but with the right experience, it is perfect.

Charts? I use the bound Air Charts system, and with the book folded over, it rests perfectly on my left thigh, with my kneeboard on the right leg to write down all those frequency changes.

And LOE was well worth the trip! :D

Paul
 
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Paul wins!!!!

Stuck in KABI. Renting van to finish trip (3hr drive).

Good lunch though <g>.

Home in a few and a return trip in a few days to get the planes.

Best,
Doug

PS. LOE was worth it!!!
 
RV's Really IFR?

unclecameron said:
Hi all,

I've been lurking and scrimping future RV $'s to plop down on a 4 or 6, depending on how much I can sneak out from the grocery money, ostensibly to buy something for cross-country with wife in-tow behind or beside me (and hopefully slightly more than a ham sandwich style space for baggage).

Question: Can you/Is it wise to make an RV-4 IFR, and just how much of IFR can they take? Forgive me if this is posted elsewhere (link?). I know you could ride a skateboard around the world if you REALLY wanted to but...general consensus, is this wise or should I be hunting for Cessna style uber-slug of the days of yore with all the sexiness of a nightie sewed up at the bottom? Same for the RV-6, would love to know if it's just a matter of not being all thumbs and having the mental capacity to count past 20 while clothed. We're shooting for a flight a couple times a month of 700-800 miles north through California and Oregon, that would be the standard venture, with intentional bad navigation occasionally to overfly nice country here and there, er, maybe the whole rest of the country :)

Thanks,
Cameron Camp
San Diego

Cameron,

About IFR and these flying Recreational Vehicles, you've had all the long answers, here's the short one - NO!

An airplane without de-ice equipment, radar, an autopilot or co-pilot, redundant instruments and nav/com equipment, backup power (engine and electric) is not suitable for serious IFR.

Man, heavy rain will end your day and you won't see it coming. Don't do it.

dd
 
RV's & IFR

My wife and I left LOE2006 in the same conditions posted by Doug and Paul. We chose to fly via Midland back to Lubbock instead of over Guadalupe Pass direct because of the thunder stom watch and the buildup over the mountains. We had VFR above 1500 AGL all the way to Midland. Refueled, had lunch, re-checked the weather and headed to Lubbock VFR. Weather at LBB on departure was 4500 broken. Due to a buildup between MAF and LBB we diverted around a couple of rainshowers and ended up on top as LBB went 1500 overcast.

We did an IFR let down to the 35L back course and broke out at 1500 feet for the visual without a hitch. If I had the GRT weather module installed (due to ship this month) I would have filed IFR from 5T6 via Wink to Lubbock but without the weather module I decided to pay it safe.

If you have the right equipment as I have had in both my RV-6A (sold) and now my RV-10 any RV is just as good as any certified aircraft for hard IFR flying. After selling my RV-6A and while building my RV-10 I owned a 1/3 interest in a C-182 which I would not fly IFR, even thought IFR equipted and certified because of the week IFR equipment and no autopilot.
 
dav1111 said:
If you have the right equipment as I have had in both my RV-6A (sold) and now my RV-10 any RV is just as good as any certified aircraft for hard IFR flying. After selling my RV-6A and while building my RV-10 I owned a 1/3 interest in a C-182 which I would not fly IFR, even thought IFR equipted and certified because of the week IFR equipment and no autopilot.

Sounds like you know of what you speak.

My conclusion on this subject is simplistic, I know, but it is not made in a vacuum. The NTSB reports indicate that single engine IFR incures a significant rise in the risk meter. There have been many, many unfortunate events with very expensive equipment where the pilot got into a situation that totally exceeded the limitations of the airplane and himself. It is so easy to do, especially with get-there-ites and an attitude that if the airlines can do it, so can I.

On the subject of XM WX. I have a friend who loves it, but he uses it only flying VFR or VFR on top. I have it in an auto and a similar system for internet service. It does not work with much water in the atmosphere. I doubt that the XM signal will penetrate moderate rain in flight, so don't put too many eggs in that basket. Single engine IFR has its limitations. Pilots who know those limits and have the discipline to not bust them will be OK.

By the way, is Reese now the Lubbock airport of choice? You mentioned an approach to 35L, sounds like Reese. I learned to fly there some time ago. Great place for cross wind landings as the wind was seldom down the runway. :)

dd
 
David-aviator said:
I doubt that the XM signal will penetrate moderate rain in flight, so don't put too many eggs in that basket.
It does, at least on my setup.
 
Interesting

Ironflight said:
. I handled vectors by diddling the heading select knob on the EFIS as I was given each new heading, and only touched the stick to trim nose down for the step-down descents. Punch off the Altrak, get to the new altitude, punch on the Altrak.

. It's fast enough that I probably wouldn't recommend it for a new instrument pilot fresh out of Cessnas, but with the right experience, it is perfect.


And LOE was well worth the trip! :D

Paul


Thanks Paul,

Well I am almost out of Phase 1 and about start my instrument training with an instructor that happens to work for Garmin...he's also building a 7a like me...it sounded like a marriage mad in heaven right up until the point point that you think perhaps the RV is a little "hot" for IFR wannabes. Do others concure with this position?

For me I have 500+ hoursTT, 400 of those in a much twitchier (but a lot slower) airplane. The RV does not the barge like qualities of a C172 but compared to my old Zodiac it feels pretty stable...VFR at least..:).

The 7a is equipped with a Pictorial pilot and will have a GNS430...order going in today.

Second question...How useful is the ALTrack altitude control device? I rather fancy this unit but wondered is a two axis A/P a better choice? of course then I lose my backup turn coordinator.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Frank
 
frankh said:
Second question...How useful is the ALTrack altitude control device? I rather fancy this unit but wondered is a two axis A/P a better choice? of course then I lose my backup turn coordinator.
Frank,

When I say "2-axis" in my recommendation, I'm referring to 2-axis capability, not necessarily 2 axes in a single box. Imho, a wing leveler (i.e. Pictorial Pilot like you mentioned) plus an Altrak is all you "need."

FWIW, I personally prefer the two independent systems...that is, the altitude hold being independent of the wing leveler.
 
frankh said:
Thanks Paul,

Well I am almost out of Phase 1 and about start my instrument training with an instructor that happens to work for Garmin...he's also building a 7a like me...it sounded like a marriage mad in heaven right up until the point point that you think perhaps the RV is a little "hot" for IFR wannabes. Do others concure with this position?

For me I have 500+ hoursTT, 400 of those in a much twitchier (but a lot slower) airplane. The RV does not the barge like qualities of a C172 but compared to my old Zodiac it feels pretty stable...VFR at least..:).

The 7a is equipped with a Pictorial pilot and will have a GNS430...order going in today.

Second question...How useful is the ALTrack altitude control device? I rather fancy this unit but wondered is a two axis A/P a better choice? of course then I lose my backup turn coordinator.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Frank


Frank -

I really like the Altrak - it does just what I want it to do - hold the altitude while I am doign other things. My personal preference is to fly altitude changes by hand, so that I am concentrating on that when it is happening, but everyone sits at a slightly different spot on the spectrum of what they want done automatically, and what they want to do themselves. One of the nice things with TruTrack stuff is that now that my servos are installed, I could upgrade to a fancier autopilot functionality very easily by changing the panel box.

My comment on the RV being faster in IFR is generally true of anyone moving up from a slower platform to a faster one - be it from Cesnnas to RV's, or Cessnas to Mooneys. Of course, you can fly the RV as slow as you wish in the clouds, but I like the ability to keep up with the rest of the aircraft in the system. Flying a faster airplane in the clouds just takes some training and practice.

On David's comment on loosing the XM signal - I haven't had that happen yet, but I'm still learning the XM system. I have flown in moderate precip, and haven't had a problem. He raises a very valid point however, and that is that you should be able to deal with the loss of any single tool in your airplane, and have a solid plan for flying without it. Never paint yourself into a corner. The single engine? Well, that takes faith.... ;)

I heard at least six other RV'ers departign 5T6 IFR yesterday, and everyone seemed to soudn pretty comfortable with the situation.

Paul
 
Thanks Dan& Paul

dan said:
Frank,

When I say "2-axis" in my recommendation, I'm referring to 2-axis capability, not necessarily 2 axes in a single box. Imho, a wing leveler (i.e. Pictorial Pilot like you mentioned) plus an Altrak is all you "need."

FWIW, I personally prefer the two independent systems...that is, the altitude hold being independent of the wing leveler.

Do you have an ALTRAK Dan?...I thought you just had a Pic pilot??

For me I ran the wires so i could easily add a pitch servo. I too am very attracted to the idea of hit a button and nail the altitude, but others seem to prefer the coupled appraoch the "2 axis in a box" provides.

I might start the IFR training first and see if I end up yearning for auto pitch control. I get the feeling that flipping charts etc may make this highly desirable.

Frank
 
frankh said:
Do you have an ALTRAK Dan?...I thought you just had a Pic pilot??
Right...I just have a single-axis Pictorial Pilot. The Altrak is on my wish list.

I do fly IFR with just the single-axis PP, but I don't fly for hours in the soup. Just up and down through layers. On rare occasion I fly enroute in IMC, but I do that as infrequently as possible. With oxygen, I can usually get on top of the weather no problem.
 
Altrac is Awesome

Being able to punch the ALT button and do your: copy change in clearance, change charts, study the approach for a new airport not in the original flight plan, change frequencies, change waypoints, study aircraft system problems and select a work around, change tanks, look outside the cockpit, are just some of the reasons the Altrac altitude hold is so great. The plane flies great but you can't always penetrate a high (1,000 ft AGL) stratus layer going up and coming down in your cross country IFR flights. I could dramatize this with actual examples but I will spare you the pain. The installation is very easy to do with rediculously small use of panel space and the reduction in work load is tremendous. Just let me say as a bench mark that I am a GA SEL only pilot with 1122 instrument approaches, 420.8 hrs actual IMC and 165.3 hrs simulated. Before building our RV-6A, I owned a PA28-181 with a single axis autopilot that I never used VFR or IFR and I could not imagine needing one in the RV. It is certainly doable - I did it for a year or more - but requirement for staying on top of basic flight parameters on real cross country flights in IMC I found to be much higher.

Bob Axsom
 
Ironflight said:
On David's comment on loosing the XM signal - I haven't had that happen yet, but I'm still learning the XM system. I have flown in moderate precip, and haven't had a problem.

Assuming that the XM weather signal is transmitted in the same fashion, and using the same antenna as their music/news/etc. stations;

Then I can say that rain has no effect whatsoever. I've been using XM radio (not the weather function) for three years, this month, and you have to be in a very narrow canyon or carwash to loose the signal. Hopefully our aircraft won't be in either, when in need of XM weather! :D

In fact, it's raining cats & dogs today, and not a bit of dropout on the XM channels. In reality, they hardly ever drop out, and only for a second if they do; as long as the antenna can see the sky.

Perhaps the aircraft with problems, has an antenna location problem.

edit: After a re-read, I see it's just an auto. My XM antenna is on top of my Chev Silverado, and I also have a portable, in which the antenna will at least pickup a signal through one sheet of plywood, as in a new construction roof.

L.Adamson
 
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XM Weather & IFR

David-aviator said:
Sounds like you know of what you speak.


On the subject of XM WX. I have a friend who loves it, but he uses it only flying VFR or VFR on top. I have it in an auto and a similar system for internet service. It does not work with much water in the atmosphere. I doubt that the XM signal will penetrate moderate rain in flight, so don't put too many eggs in that basket. Single engine IFR has its limitations. Pilots who know those limits and have the discipline to not bust them will be OK.

By the way, is Reese now the Lubbock airport of choice? You mentioned an approach to 35L, sounds like Reese. I learned to fly there some time ago. Great place for cross wind landings as the wind was seldom down the runway. :)

dd

The real big use of XM Weather is to AVOID those thunderstoms and moving weather systems, NOT to fly into them. Scott Crossfield (NASA test pilot with thousands of hours) was flying an IFR flight plan from the NE and somewhere in Georga he went into a thunderstorm that took his C-206 apart in flight. No matter how good the IFR briefing long before you reach the point of needing to stop for fuel the weather can change a lot. Having XM weather on board allows you to follow the weather as you go and to make flight path changes to go around any buildups of weather.

As regards Reese, sadly the City of Lubbock took over Reese and shut down all flying activities. 35L is the big runway at LBB which also has a 3000 foot short 35R/17L runway as well as 8/26. All my flight instructors many years ago were friends who taught in T-38's at Reese. I miss having Reese active it was a lot of fun having two T-38 fly up alongside and look me over years ago. Some of the instructors recoginzed my C-182 and wanted to say HI.
 
I'll add my .02 cents to the IFR chat. I have an RV9 with MX20, GX60, Dynon D-10, an HSI and an STEC30. Up until the past couple of weeks, most of my IFR has been Up and down through layers, but I've had occasion lately to sit in the soup for a couple hours at a time.
1. Would really consider an autopilot a must: Cockpit is small, and just the act of changing charts, getting a drink out of the bag, etc, usually causes me to hit the stick with my knee and before you know it, I am in a steep turn. So, whenever, I do one of the above tasks, I make sure the a/p is engaged.
2. Speed range while on approach is a great tool: Controller says go fast, you can do it, slow for the 172 on the localizer, no problem. Just be sure you know the power settings required for various speeds and descent rates, and fly the numbers.
3. Currency: I try very hard to get out frequently with a safety pilot and shoot approaches, or when the local wx is 800 ovc to get out and shoot approaches myself. Doing multiple approaches in VFR with a safely pilot in the RV is a great way to get used to how fast the RV really is. Shoot the apch, do the miss, back to radar for vectors to something else, get the next chart, set the freq's, load the apch (GPS). Things happen very quickly. Good time to use the A/P while making these changes.
4. XM Weather: Won't fly long XC without it. Never had a problem with signal loss, and use it for large scale decision making about routes. Great tool. Again, use it and learn it. I did my IFR training in my RV with the XM, and the instructor and I compared what we saw on the screen to what His 15,000 hours of flying experience taught him about seeing the weather with his eyes, and that's how I decided what level of precip I will fly through and what I go around. Again, know your equipment, get training, and fly the XXXXX out of the plane to learn.
I left LOE 06 and headed east on an IFR flight plan, a few seconds through the clouds on departure, maybe 10-15 minutes through the tops near MAF then a let down through the clouds to a visual at ABI. Chatted with the mini LOE crowd we had there, grabbed some food, then headed north to KC. Almost 2 hours in the soup on this leg, but very smooth and relaxing, broke out of the clouds 10 miles south of K34 for a visual again. Great trip.

My vote,
Great IFR platform, Learn it, train it, fly it.

Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9e