AX-O

Well Known Member
As some of you that follow my RV-4 fastback thread may have noticed, I have not posted progress updates in a long time. Frankly I hit a wall. I did not want to admit it to myself but working on the plane is no longer fun. Just one job/problem after another. Add to that the fact that I have been promising my wife flights in our magic carpet for over 5 years and have not delivered yet.

What is the source of frustration you ask? The fire wall forward I will reply. I don’t have the skills (at this point) and have not been able to figure it out. I live in the middle of the dessert, not many people around that I can ask for help.

In order to get myself out of this “low” I have talked to my wife and we will be purchasing 50% of a flying RV-4. I know, I know, I can hear people telling me how bad of a decision that is and how it will negatively affect my fastback project. But it is what my wife and I want at this point in our life.

So I continue to chase my RV dream. I recognized that even though I have RV flight time, I have never been at the controls during take offs and landings. All my flight time has been straight and level cross country flying. I did not have to think twice about it. I knew I needed RV transition training. I called Alex and Mike and decided that I would travel down to Texas last weekend to see Alex and obtain my training. I also called my dad and asked him to show up at Eagles Nest Airpark so he could get qual’ed up. My mom found out about this plan and said there in no way my son will be in Texas and I don’t go to see him. It was a party now. Both my mom and dad met me at the airport in Dallas and we proceeded to Alex’s house.

We got lost on our way to Alex’s house (stupid iPhone, I was doing fine until my mom said the blue bubble and the red bubble were going away from each other). We finally arrived and met Alex. Not surprising, he was another of those nice RV guys. We put my dad immediately in the seat because the sun was setting and they went flying. They came back about an hour later and my dad was all grins. It was his first RV flight and he had a permanent RV grin for the rest of the night.

The following day was my turn. Alex put me on the right seat because the controls would resemble the RV-4 closest. I have not flown the right seat of an aircraft for about 10 years. That proved to be somewhat problematic for me. Alex was AWESOME. He would show me stuff or ask me to perform certain maneuvers. If he was satisfied with my performance, we would move on to something else. He was calm for the most parts but I did scare him a few times. Alex knew that my family was around and that I have not seen them in a while. He kept telling me we should knock the training out so I could spend time with my family plus the weather was moving in. We flew for a 2.4 and I was signed off.

After we left Alex’s house my mom, dad and I went to eat. It was great spending time with my parents and just catching up. I asked them if we could go to Best Buy to check out iPads. We did that and on our way out I saw the game guitar hero. Had to pick it up. Played a few songs while my parents laughed at me. I never got booed off the stage. My dad picked up the guitar and got booed in a few seconds then we convince my mom to do it as well. She also got booed. I finally had found something that I was better than my parents.

So why are RVs are more than just planes? Well, I saw my family, my dad got his first RV flight and got qual’ed, I got qual’ed and feel more confident about my skills, I got to meet another nice RV guy and I got rejuvenated. I came back and have been building again while we look for an RV-4 to buy.

Just a side note: I have flown a lot of cool planes during my career and at Test Pilot School. But the training I received from Alex was invaluable. Don’t let your ego keep you from attending transition training. If not for yourself do it for your family.

Mom looking at Alex and Dad on the way out.
IMG_0628.JPG


Dad's first RV flight
IMG_0634.JPG


IMG_0657.JPG


IMG_0650.JPG


IMG_0656.JPG
 
Last edited:
Man, I can relate to your first few paragraphes. I am deep in the firewall forward stage and all I can say is that it has been brutal compared to the airframe. The trouble is that I dont really know what I done know, there arent really instructions for this stage, and every part is custom. Most of the accessories that came with my engine have turned out to be more headache than they are worth. The oil cooler is oversized, which made it really tough fit. The AFP injetor required a hand made FAB of my own design, which then required a new lower cowl scoop. The One Design 4-1 exhaust didnt fit, inverted oil system wont fit, SD-8 alternator was too small, purge valve required new fuel piping, cowl ckeeks had to be hand made, the list goes on.

Im just trying to focus on one job at a time, because in theory, there eventually wont be anything left to do.

I dont even want to know how much money I've spent on shipping.
 
You guys ROCK!

<snip>

I know, I know, I can hear people telling me how bad of a decision that is and how it will negatively affect my fastback project. But it is what my wife and I want at this point in our life. <snip>

You have my highest respect for your decision. It warms my heart when I witness a husband and wife working closely together as one.
 
Right there with you

Axel,

You're spot on. I'm at the same point as you in my -4 FWF installation, and have run into many of the same challenges. The RV3 and RV4 are pretty tight under the cowl, and it seems you have to plan everything before you start working on anything. Sourcing parts and reworking the occasional snafu only compound the frustration.

Without a strong "aviation family" around me, I think I'd consider homebuilding for the birds (or the neurotic). But with the encouragement of my flying friends, that dream of flying my wife around the country in an efficient, aerobatic, miniature fighter inches closer and closer every day. Hope you continue to find enough motivation to keep at it. You've already discovered one of the best motivators of all - flying another RV!

m
 
Ok Axel,
Here's the deal: Trailer the "non-flying" RV here to Rosamond where I'll find you hangar space then fly your "flying" RV here to work on it where you'll have more help than you EVER imagined. All we need to do is open the hangar door and they wil come :D Rosie
 
Ok Axel,
Here's the deal: Trailer the "non-flying" RV here to Rosamond where I'll find you hangar space then fly your "flying" RV here to work on it where you'll have more help than you EVER imagined. All we need to do is open the hangar door and they wil come :D Rosie

How can you pass up a deal like that?? :D
 
Wow, what memories. I was there, got stuck on that firewall forward, but did get help, and finished it up, one step at a time (7.5 years total), and I am still amazed that it all works after 5 years of flying.

I also flew with Alex in his now gone RV-6, in the right seat, and it served me very well. I did what he taught me, and now I am still slowly learning the rest! Best decision I made in that whole process. Thanks again Alex.

Just look in the flying one, and get one piece at a time, and that ole firewall forward will slowly fall into plane.

On the other hand, you may have more assistance than you can handle after your post, more than just a plane indeed!

cheers
 
Most builders (in particular the first-timers) hit a speed bump when they reach firewall forward. Perfectly normal.

Alex, your dream is a very customized airplane, so your bump is steeper than the usual.

Custom airplanes are a form of self-inflicted pain. All the really cool airplanes required special effort. Besides, nobody said every build task was going to be fun. Neither was every aspect of engineering school, or test pilot school, or all the other wins in your column. You obviously know how to suck it up and get it done, so.........
 
Axel,
Find your self a copy of the Tony Bengallis book (Firewall Forward). You will find that he breaks things down into simple terms and covers just about everything. Its a great book and I would bet it would help you out alot.
Ryan
 
One thing at a time...

I bought the first kit for my -4 in 1987. I finished it in 2002. Do the math. I hit many road blocks, not all related to the airplane itself. Sometimes I didn't work on the plane for a year at a time. And, the firewall forward was the toughest. The advice I give, and the way I finally got the plane done, was to do a little something every day, even if it was only 10 minutes. If you can get out there for 10 muinutes it turns into an hour, and things start actually looking different from week to week. Just 10 minutes. Clean up the mess of tools. File on the edge of a piece of sheet metal. Just 10 minutes. Take care of some little detail. I, for one, want to see that plane fly.
 
Still married?

Axel,

Many people measure the length of their building experience by the number of divorces they go through in the process. You are way ahead of lots of others! :p
 
I can also identify with "hitting the wall". Most of my firewall forward stuff is done (some of it several times) but it is the wiring that is now causing me pain. I am building this aircraft with my son, he specifically wanted to do all the wiring himself, to which I agreed. He is a licensed avionics engineer who works for an airline and he wants everything just so. We also have lots of electronic junk in the aircraft. Anyway, the wiring is taking forever and I must admit I am losing interest in the project. We had originally planed on 2-3 years in building, but we are now entering the 6th year and at the current rate it will be another year at least. I have started hiring and flying again and I must admit I now regret selling my Cessna so early in the project (first year). Our engine has been hung for a bit over a year and I am concerned that it may need to be stripped and checked for corrosion before we start it (more time). Anyway as you can see you are not the only one to "hit the wall".:(
 
Just a global comment. Thanks for the support. Just to clear any confusion, the plane will fly. Not giving up. Just having a tough time right now and from the sounds of it I am not the first nor will I be the last.

Excellent write up Axel!! Glad you got some motivation back in your blood!:cool::cool:
Thanks Chad.


Axel,Sent you a PM.
Got your PM. I am going to Michigan tonight to look at an RV-4. Will contact your POC after I return. Thank you.


Man, I can relate to your first few paragraphs. I am deep in the firewall forward stage and all I can say is that it has been brutal compared to the airframe. The oil cooler is oversized, which made it really tough fit. The AFP injector required a handmade FAB of my own design, which then required a new lower cowl scoop. The One Design 4-1 exhaust didn?t fit, inverted oil system won?t fit, SD-8 alternator was too small, purge valve required new fuel piping, cowl ckeeks had to be handmade, the list goes on.
Man that sounds like me. Everything that I am doing right now won?t work/fit and I have to find a solution that is not the one I prefer. Still flight-worthy just not as clean or light or small, etc.. as I would like. That is why her name is Dilemma. A lot of handmade stuff going on with my project because of all the mods. Hope they are worth it when she is flying.


You have my highest respect for your decision. It warms my heart when I witness a husband and wife working closely together as one.
Thank you. My wife is a huge part of this project. Although she does not work on the project, she supports me 100% in many other ways.


Ok Axel, Here's the deal: Trailer the "non-flying" RV here to Rosamond where I'll find you hangar space then fly your "flying" RV here to work on it where you'll have more help than you EVER imagined. All we need to do is open the hangar door and they wil come :D Rosie
Thanks Rosie. Will talk to you when I get back.


On the other hand, you may have more assistance than you can handle after your post, more than just a plane indeed!
cheers
:D


Custom airplanes are a form of self-inflicted pain. All the really cool airplanes required special effort. Besides, nobody said every build task was going to be fun. Neither was every aspect of engineering school, or test pilot school, or all the other wins in your column. You obviously know how to suck it up and get it done, so.........
Thanks Dan. With you on the self-inflicted pain


Axel, Find your self a copy of the Tony Bengallis book (Firewall Forward). Ryan
Got the book.


The advice I give, and the way I finally got the plane done, was to do a little something every day, even if it was only 10 minutes.
I do that. Get up at 0515, work on it for one or two hours each day during the week, then go to work. I am sure it makes a difference. I just can?t see the progress as much as I did when I was working on the airframe.
I, for one, want to see that plane fly.
You don?t know how much that means to me. Thank you.


Axel, Many people measure the length of their building experience by the number of divorces they go through in the process. You are way ahead of lots of others! :p
Indeed I am.


Anyway as you can see you are not the only one to "hit the wall".:(
I should have posted this a long time ago. I now know it is not uncommon.
 
CONGRATS!! You've just made...

.... the VERY BEST decision a RV-builder can make!

I know, because I've "been there-done that": during the build of my first -7, I bought another which was approx 2 years of building time ahead of the one me & my 5-man retired Airforce technicans building-team (yeah, I know; I'm VERY lucky...!) where building on at that time.

We then stored the first one and started working on the second one instead.

This second -7 was completed in about two years, and now I'm in the PERFECT situation for a RV-builder: I have a RV to fly with and a RV to build on... :)
And in fact; now, we're almost DRAGGING OUT the build time now since building is so much fun and it's no rush to finish it quickly anymore.... since I have a RV to fly with...

So most welcome to the perfect world for a RV-builder! :D
 
Fly or Build?

Axel,
When i firstwas introduced to RVs about 12 years ago I had to make a decision to build or fly. The best thing I ever did was to decide to buy a completed RV6 and fly it. I have since owned 3 RV6 and 6As. What I found is that no matter what you purchase you will be doing creative rebuilding along the way. Read my article in speed mods. I fly at least every weekend and all mods are done during the week. I couldn't justify spending years in the building process and not the enjoyment of flying. Also, I was able to get great deals purchasing because a lot of builders "ran out of medical" about the time they finished thier project. Whatever road you choose, you will not be sorry.
"Woodman"
 
Glad to hear you are airborne & ck'd out.

Hey Axel, its been a long time. Your fastback 8 is progressing nicely and may be airborne by Oshkosh...sorry to hear your 4 project has slowed down, but you will get motivated by getting into a flying 4. Its exciting to read your story, keep the faith and you'll be rewarded...Bill C.
 
Firewall Forward Blues

Axel, just having another 4 around to look at while you work on firewall forward will be a big help. I almost always had another to look at while I did mine and it answered a lot of questions.

You are right that you can't really see the progress while working firewall forward, and having an experienced pair of eyes is of course always a help.

Hans