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R22CFI

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OK, is it just me or is the 70k-80k or so that you put into building an RV a good investment? It seems to me like it is......... A nice, well built, loaded rv seems to be pushing the 100k mark. That sounds like a solid investment. Am I seeing this wrong?
Thanks!
 
Well, I am no expert here, but it sure seems like it.

Specially for the -10.

Of course, as they say-----YMMV.

By the way, I notice this is your first post-----------welcome aboard!!!
 
Depends.

Welcome aboard, Calvin,
Yes, if you build any thing other than a -6 since they're superseded by the -7. For this reason though, you can get a lot of airplane in a -6 if you buy a flying airplane and save a lot of money over a -7. As long as you equip the airplane well, I mean a glass cockpit, good modern radios, interior and autopilot. Then you might make some money but after two to 5 years of building, a $25,000 profit on your money is ok but might be hard to make. You'd get your money back if it's a well built airplane...smooth rivets, good fit of all the pieces. I've seen RV's that were terrible examples of builder lack of skill/care with the same amount of money invested as a really clean, well built one with good color matching paint.

Regards,
 
Well built and equipped 6's are fetching the same top dollars as the 7's. I know of at least one that recently sold for over $100K. Many are selling in the $70-90k range with very low hours.
There is no difference in value, only percieved value. There are a lot of orphaned 6's out there, and will be for some time, so I would not pass up on one from an investment standpoint. However, if you factor in your time to build, none of them are a "good" investment. You can get your money back out of them, but not your time, unless you are very lucky.
I think the 10's might be unique in this regard however as they seem to be getting big bucks for them.
 
Yep, but not going to get rich

R22CFI said:
OK, is it just me or is the 70k-80k or so that you put into building an RV a good investment? It seems to me like it is......... A nice, well built, loaded rv seems to be pushing the 100k mark. That sounds like a solid investment. Am I seeing this wrong?
Thanks!
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Yes, but the 2,000 hours work (est first time builder) and $20k profit you might make means 10 bucks an hour. Not going to get rich, but from a hobby stand point you're right, you can make money. Kit planes, kit cars and other motor hobbies usually means putting in more than what you get out. RV's are very popular and desirable, so the fetch top doller. RV's use to cost $40k-$60k 10-12 years ago. However some of that is the "standard"" of many RV's have gone up with new engines, c/s props, glass cockpits, full interiors and fancy paint. 15 years ago most RV's (3, 4 and 6's) had 160 hp, fixed props and VFR panels. Simple and light. Now people invest $20k-$30k just in panels. If you don't have a two axis autopilot you are behind the times. So you can build for way less teh 70k-80k if you try.

However some have looked at building planes like RV-10's on speculation of making money. Building with only the intent to sell is against the spirit of the amateur build experimental plane.

Bottom line build because you love to build and want a great plane, but don't "invest" you kids college fund on it.
 
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I know there are other opinions, but for me it is just nice to know that after I spend thousands of hours and, say, $70K cash, that the end product might be fairly liquid and might allow me to at least get the cash out if my life situation changes. I can't afford to risk 70 on something that will only be worth 20 the next week.

I'm curious - what is everyone's prediction for the value of well-built -12s? Do you guess they'll hold value like the others?
 
Köhler;166780 said:
I'm curious - what is everyone's prediction for the value of well-built -12s? Do you guess they'll hold value like the others?
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I thought about building one too, mostly because I am bored and want to do a new project not too terribly expensive. But, I don't see myself keeping a -12 for the long haul, so am interested in building it, flying it for a bit and then eventually selling it. I like my -8 too much and I can't have both. So, I've given this some thought since I can't afford to eat any losses in building one.

My prediction FWIW, is that the -12's won't be all that much cheaper than other RV's, but they will be undoubtedly less expensive due to the restricted performance. For one thing, it will probably not be all that much less expensive to build one when we are talking about the airframe - an airframe is an airframe after all and a 12 isn't all that less complicated, in some ways it is more - folding wing, flaperons, etc. So airframe costs will be about the same and a Rotax 912S isn't all that much cheaper than a Lyclone or a good used Lyc. The FP sensenich will probably be a coupla grand too. So it comes down to avionics and I venture that most -12 owners (if they are realistic) will want to keep it light so that will be a savings. The heavy avionics, or lack thereof, is what will drive the price of the -12 as most anything.

I would estimate that you can't build a -12 for less than about $50K, and that is a very sparse -12 with no paint or at most a nice DIY paint job by an experienced builder. Which means that on the market, especially since it is an RV and because of all the other competition out there with super expensive LSA's that the -12 will probably bottom end at about $60K and I suspect that you will see the upper end of the -12 range cost as much as the low end of the 7's and 9's. Although I don't see them hitting the 100K mark like other certified LSA's and of course other RV's.

Anyway, my 2c.
 
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Sensenich wood and composite props are much cheaper than that. The Rotax can't handle a metal prop.
 
Thanks Mel, that's what I was referring to - the new wood/composite. Your prediction is encouraging. I just figured Sensenich would want the bucks for their prop because it is a Sensenich. Am surprised the value is in that range, but then again, looking at UL props they tend to be in the $700 range or less, so that is encouraging indeed and will further help keep the costs down.
 
Ed hit the nail on the head. None of us can justify our flying habits but if fuel keeps going up it will have a profound effect on the whole flying community not just planes.
 
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