B

Bob Axsom

Well Known Member
For 2.5 years SARL has been sanctioning cross country air races and keeping track of the results. Most RVs fly in the RV Red (320) or RV Blue (360) classes but some with other engines or personal choice enter other classes. Under the Sport Air Racing League (www.sportairrace.org) time period that has been limited to Dick Martin who has a "390" in his RV-8. I copied the information via SARL and tried to format it in Excel for a fit here but it may take some effort to sort it out. After I got the information and extracted the RV speeds I sorted the list by speed only, with the fastest speed first. I think an objective observer will find the RV-8 is just faster than the rest but beyond that there are some suprises.

Bob Axsom

Speed Rank, Race, Date, Class, Aircraft Type, Pilot, Speed MPH

1 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Huft, John 249.91
2 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Ross, Jon 233.14
3 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Blue RV-8 John Huft 231.64
4 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 Sport FX RV-8 Martin, Dick 231.63
5 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Huft, John 229.31
6 Rocket 100 08 11/22/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Huft, John 227.20
7 Rocket 100, 07 11/17/2007 RV Blue RV-8 Huft, John 224.15
8 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 223.89
9 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 Sport FX RV-8 Martin, Dick 223.67
10 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Carroll, Alan 222.97
11 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Christman, Dave 222.00
12 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-8 Ross, Jon 221.00
13 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-8 Carroll, Alan 220.68
14 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-7A Moore, Tom 217.97
15 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-8 John Huft 217.69
16 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Blue RV-8 Alan Carroll 217.46
17 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 216.80
18 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Blue RV-8 Dave Christman 216.73
19 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-7 Mullaney, John 216.54
20 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Schryver, Fred 215.76
21 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-7A Moore, Tom 215.09
22 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Blue RV-6 Attaway, Robbie 214.58
23 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 214.06
24 AirCap 200 8/23/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 213.08
25 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Berry, Damon 213.06
26 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Blue RV-7A Verdier, Jean-Pierre 212.74
27 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-8 Jordan, Scott 212.72
28 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-8 Schryver, Fred 212.72
29 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-7 Klusmier, James 211.56
30 Rocket 100 08 11/22/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 211.55
31 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue RV-6 Mike Thompson 211.52
32 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 211.40
33 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Blue RV-6A Bob Axsom 209.85
34 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Blue RV-4 Harris, Winn 209.02
35 BCAF 150, 08 5/3/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 208.81
36 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Blue RV-8 Carroll, Alan 208.68
37 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue RV-7A Rusty Williams 208.43
38 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 208.01
39 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue RV-8 Pat Tuckey  207.82
40 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 Sport FX RV-8 Dick Martin 207.65
41 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-8 Jon Ross 207.65
42 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Blue RV-6 Mike Thompson 207.64
43 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 207.52
44 AirCap 200 8/23/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 207.47
45 Memphis 100 08 10/18/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 207.44
46 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 207.13
47 AirVenture Cup 08 7/27/2008 RV Red RV-3 Vasey, Bob 207.10
48 TVA Air Race 09 6/13/2009 RV Blue RV-6A Bob Axsom 205.97
49 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Red RV-6A Klusmier, Larry 205.87
50 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 205.56
51 Grace Flight 08 10/4/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 205.43
52 Colorado 150, 09 7/22/2009 RV Blue RV-6  Mike Thompson 205.43
53 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Red RV-3 Vasey, Bob 205.01
54 Taylor 100 09 3/15/2009 RV Red RV-4 Cam Benton 204.86
55 TVA Air Race 09 6/13/2009 RV Blue RV-6  Mike Thompson 204.18
56 BCAF 150, 08 5/3/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 203.95
57 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Red RV-6 Weisgerber, Dave 203.91
58 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-8 Alan Carroll 203.54
59 Memphis 100, 07 10/27/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 203.52
60 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 203.29
61 Rocket 100 08 11/22/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 203.07
62 Rocket 100, 07 11/17/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 202.92
63 Grace Flight 08 10/4/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 202.15
64 Denton 100 08 6/14/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 201.51
65 Rocket 100 08 11/22/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 201.30
66 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 200.49
67 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue RV-6 Dennis McCright 200.43
68 Rocket 100, 07 11/17/2007 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 200.37
69 Memphis 100, 07 10/27/2007 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 199.11
70 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Blue RV-7 Haley, Gary 199.09
71 Colorado 150, 09 7/22/2009 RV Red RV-4 Chris Murphy 198.97
72 Memphis 100 08 10/18/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 198.83
73 Memphis 100 08 10/18/2008 RV Blue RV-8A Labarreare, Chuck 198.74
74 Memphis 100 08 10/18/2008 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 198.65
75 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-7A Tom Moore 197.14
76 Rocket 100, 07 11/17/2007 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 196.91
77 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 196.13
78 West Texas 100 09 4/11/2009 RV Blue RV-6 Mike Thompson 195.55
79 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue Unknown Thomas Jett 195.55
80 Wichita 300 7/16/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 195.53
81 Memphis 100 08 10/18/2008 RV Red RV-4 Smith, Dwight 195.50
82 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Red RV-8 Jones, Bryan 195.00
83 Colorado 150, 09 7/22/2009 RV Blue RV-4 Jeff Hall 194.19
84 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 194.16
85 Colorado 150, 09 7/22/2009 RV Blue RV-7A Brad Reak 193.78
86 West Texas 100, 07 10/6/2007 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 192.40
87 West Texas 100, 07 10/6/2007 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 191.50
88 West Texas 100 09 4/11/2009 RV Red RV-4 Cam Benton 191.36
89 AirCap 200 8/23/2008 RV Red RV-4 Smith, Jim 191.27
90 Colorado 150, 08 6/28/2008 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 190.62
91 Texoma 100 09 5/30/2009 RV Blue RV-7A Tom Moore 189.63
92 West Texas 100 09 4/11/2009 RV Blue RV-6A Rance Nymeyer 188.86
93 Taylor 100 07 5/19/2007 RV Red RV-3 Hackett, Willy 187.53
94 Denton 100 08 6/14/2008 RV Blue RV-4 Bruggers, Ken 187.24
95 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-7A Jean-Pierre Verdier 186.75
96 Texoma 100, 08 4/19/2008 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 186.17
97 AirVenture Cup 07 7/22/2007 RV Blue RV-7A Verdier, Jean-Pierre 185.30
98 Memphis 100, 07 10/27/2007 RV Blue RV-6A Lee, Ron 182.59
99 Memphis 100, 07 10/27/2007 RV Red RV-4 Smith, Dwight 182.28
100 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Red RV-3 Bob Vassey 178.99
101 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Blue RV-7 Gary Haley & Stephen Stephenson 159.65
102 AirVenture Cup 09 7/26/2009 RV Red RV-6 Steve Campbell & John Popel 159.19
 
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RV Speeds

Bob,
Thanks for posting this information. Several weeks ago, someone attempted to start a discussion on realistic speeds for RVs. Your post gives an idea of what is possible to achieve. My RV8A will not reach the numbers you posted but your post provides a goal.
 
OH!

You would know Mike (Chairman and founder of the SARL). I have met Dick Martin several times in the AirVenture Cup and I knew he was saddled with the requirement to fly against the Rockets and fixed gear Venture because of the "390". When I went through the 409 line items associated with each participant in every SARL sanctioned race, his is the only one I found in a non-RV red or blue class. Just curious if I missed them or they belong to the Sport Air Racing League (www.sportairrace.org) but haven't raced yet?

Bob Axsom
 
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Average speeds

Bob,

Just for fun I took your list, edited it slightly, and calculated average speeds for the different models (disclaimer: these numbers are completely unscientific and probably contain errors!):

RV-4 (320): 199 mph

RV-6A/7A (360): 203 mph

RV-6/7 (360): 204 mph

RV-8 (360): 218 mph (214 without John Huft)

As you know the absolute speeds don't mean much because of different race conditions, pilot strategies, etc., but the comparison is interesting. The 8s are faster, more so than I would have expected. HP may be part of it (180 to 220+? in this group), but I doubt this is the whole story.

It would be interesting to add the Rockets to this list, to see the effect of shorter wings and 50% more HP.
 
I'll do it!

Good idea Alan. Give me a little while - I'll separate the staight F-1s from the EVOs as well.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
You would know Mike (Chairman and founder of the SARL). I have met Dick Martin several times in the AirVenture Cup and I knew he was saddled with the requirement to fly against the Rockets and fixed gear Venture because of the "390". When I went through the 409 line items associated with each participant in every SARL sanctioned race, his is the only one I found in a non-RV red or blue class. Just curious if I missed them or they belong to the Sport Air Racing League (www.sportairrace.org) but haven't raced yet?

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

I'm a member and have a IO390 in my RV8, just out of phase 1, but haven't raced yet. I hope to get into the race scene once I recover from a foot operation and get my ship cleaned up.

I have some early encouraging speeds but am somewhat concerned that the 390 ships are somewhat "orphaned" and must run against as much as 550 ci 350+ hp Rockets which are essentially an RV8 with a very big engine, almost 50% more cubic inches, while a 390 is only ~8% more than a 360. I guess an "inbetween" class might be opened as more 375's and 400's show up.

Well, I'll have to pursue this with Mike Thompson and Mark Fredrick who are personal friends and live very close.
 
Mike has mentioned this

When I noted the small number of RV red class entries in the AirVenture Cup this year Mike mentioned the posibility of opening a RV Gold Class for the big engined RVs so the idea is simmering in our leader's thoughts. I think he feels bad about you guys having to fly against the bigger engined rockets.

Bob Axsom

deene said:
I'm a member and have a IO390 in my RV8, just out of phase 1, but haven't raced yet. I hope to get into the race scene once I recover from a foot operation and get my ship cleaned up.

I have some early encouraging speeds but am somewhat concerned that the 390 ships are somewhat "orphaned" and must run against as much as 550 ci 350+ hp Rockets which are essentially an RV8 with a very big engine, almost 50% more cubic inches, while a 390 is only ~8% more than a 360. I guess an "inbetween" class might be opened as more 375's and 400's show up.

Well, I'll have to pursue this with Mike Thompson and Mark Fredrick who are personal friends and live very close.
Click to expand...
 
Here you go Alan

Alan Carroll said:
Bob,

Just for fun I took your list, edited it slightly, and calculated average speeds for the different models (disclaimer: these numbers are completely unscientific and probably contain errors!):

RV-4 (320): 199 mph

RV-6A/7A (360): 203 mph

RV-6/7 (360): 204 mph

RV-8 (360): 218 mph (214 without John Huft)

As you know the absolute speeds don't mean much because of different race conditions, pilot strategies, etc., but the comparison is interesting. The 8s are faster, more so than I would have expected. HP may be part of it (180 to 220+? in this group), but I doubt this is the whole story.

It would be interesting to add the Rockets to this list, to see the effect of shorter wings and 50% more HP.
Click to expand...

I am time limited Alan so I Am just going to throw it out here raw. Harmon Rockets are included as well:

Race Date Class Aircraft Type Race # Pilot Speed MPH Speed Kts
AirVenture Cup 2008.ar 7/27/2008 Sport FX EVO Rocket 109 Martin, Tom 266.54 231.62
AirVenture Cup 2008.as 7/27/2008 Sport FX EVO Rocket 4 Siegel, Paul 255.49 222.01
AirVenture Cup 2008.at 7/27/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Hadath, Wayne 251.55 218.59
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009.ac 6/13/2009 Sport FX EVO Rocket 109 Tom Martin 250.32 217.52
Rocket 100, 2007.aa 11/17/2007 Unlimited F1 Rocket 104 Meyn, Wolfgang 249.55 216.86
Memphis 100 2008.ab 10/18/2008 Sport FX EVO Rocket 109 Martin, Tom 247.29 214.89
Rocket 100 2008.af 11/22/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Hadath, Wayne 246.07 213.83
Memphis 100, 2007.ab 10/27/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Hadath, Wayne 245.32 213.17
Memphis 100, 2007.ac 10/27/2007 Sport FX EVO Rocket 9 Martin, Tom 244.21 212.21
Memphis 100 2008.ac 10/18/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Hadath, Wayne 243.38 211.49
Rocket 100, 2007.ab 11/17/2007 Sport FX EVO Rocket 9 Martin, Tom 243.31 211.43
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009.ad 6/13/2009 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Wayne Hadath 242.3 210.55
Rocket 100, 2007.ac 11/17/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Hadath, Wayne 238.65 207.38
Memphis 100, 2007.ad 10/27/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 57 Edmiston, Ray 234.77 204.01
AirVenture Cup 2009.am 7/26/2009 Sport FX F1 Rocket 14 Wayne Hadath 234.74 203.98
Memphis 100 2008.ad 10/18/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 33 Linebaugh, Jeff 234.64 203.9
Memphis 100, 2007.ae 10/27/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 32 Rhodes, Howard 231.86 201.48
Memphis 100, 2007.af 10/27/2007 Sport FX EVO Rocket 86 Holcomb, Gene 230.62 200.41
Memphis 100, 2007.ag 10/27/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 414 Butcher, Darren 230.25 200.09
Rocket 100, 2007.ae 11/17/2007 Sport FX Harmon Rocket 70 Manda, Mark 230.10 199.95
Memphis 100 2008.ae 10/18/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 86 Holcomb, Gene 230.01 199.87
Rocket 100, 2007.af 11/17/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 57 Edmiston, Ray 229.97 199.84
AirVenture Cup 2009.an 7/26/2009 Sport FX F-1 Rocket 56 Mark Fredrick 229.67 199.58
Colorado 150, 2008.ab 6/28/2008 Sport FX F1 Rocket 57 Edmiston, Ray 227.79 197.94
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009.ae 6/13/2009 Sport FX EVO Rocket GF George Fisher 227.75 197.91
Taylor 100 2009.ad 3/15/2009 Sport FX EVO Rocket 158 Mark Frederick 227.64 197.82
AirVenture Cup 2007.ar 7/22/2007 Sport FX EVO Rocket 4 Siegel, Paul 222.95 193.74
Rocket 100, 2007.ag 11/17/2007 Sport FX F1 Rocket 45 Berry, Dean 222.27 193.15
Memphis 100 2008.af 10/18/2008 Sport FX Harmon Rocket II 757 Marshall, Wayne 212.97 185.07
AirVenture Cup 2009.ao 7/26/2009 Sport FX EVO Rocket 4 Paul Siegel 210.57 182.98


Bob Axsom
 
Rockets added

Alan Carroll said:
RV-4 (320): 199 mph

RV-6A/7A (360): 203 mph

RV-6/7 (360): 204 mph

RV-8 (360): 218 mph (214 without John Huft)
Click to expand...

Bob,

Here's what I get with your Rocket numbers (I didn't include the Harmon Rockets because there were only 2 data points):

F1: 237 mph

Evo: 239 mph

So, looks like the Rockets were 20-25 mph (about 10%) faster than the RV-8s on average.
 
speeds

Alans's breakdown is interesting. When averaged out the differences in speeds are surprisingly close.... without John's numbers.

Not about speeds but just had a flash.... I was watching Pinks All Out on Speed Channel last night and wondered how many RV's would come out to that sort of a race challenge. I am thinking of that format at the Tenn. Valley Speed Dash next year?? You think we could get that on TV??

Chris M. RACE 34
 
Could Be

I think it would be good for the sport to get that kind of exposure. The TV folks would have to get more access than the general public in order to make it interesting. Jeanine said I looked slow to her where she was located back by the hangar even though my 2-way average was better than 220 mph. In cockpit video might spice it up as the roll-ins for the passes provide a stimulating view. A lower pass altitude floor and close to the pass track camera locations would be good as well. The drama could be built by commentary, timely reporting of speeds & standings and sequencing the planes with the slower classes first (as you did in the TVA speed dash). Some really fast airplanes would help too.

My favorite form of racing is cross country and if television could get into that it could solve the "spectators can only see a small part of the race" problem. In the TVAR cross country race camera locations at the launch point, the start/finish line, on the small island by the dam, at the two turn airports and maybe an onboard camera or two would provide a comprehensive view of the race. That is really the only way to see this kind of race unless you are in the cockpit. In the early 1950s I saw Phil Hill drive a Jaguar XK120C in the road race at Torrey Pines north of San Diego. It was scenic and great but I could only see a small segment of the course. Now when they have a Formula 1 race on TV it is much more interesting to me than oval track racing where the scene never changes but I could see it all if I were there. The course out of Courtland, Alabama in the TVAR cross country race was absolutely beautiful.

If you could find TV people that are interested they could make either form interesting to the viewers.

Bob Axsom
 
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TV

Bob Axsom said:
I think it would be good for the sport to get that kind of exposure. The TV folks would have to get more access than the general public in order to make it interesting.
Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

I suspect that there would also need to be some sort of "story" that could catch people's interest. The other night there was a program on local public access about vintage race cars. The cars themselves were kind of interesting, but the actual race footage was deadly (one camera showing a bunch of little old cars going rather slowly around a corner). The driver interviews were slightly better.

Maybe play up the angle of "home built airplanes" and the people who build and race them? There was a documentary some years ago about a guy who wanted to design, build, and fly his own high-performance airplane in only 30 days. The project was a train wreck from minute one; fortunately it's first "flight" was to the dumpster. However, like any good wreck you couldn't take your eyes off it. Perhaps a more positive version of this story might be interesting to the public?
 
Contacts

Chris,

I worked with these guys on Genesis. They may give you some leads for what you want to do.

roycliffcards.jpg
 
Updated RV Speed List

Updated the list of RV speeds in the initial post to reflect the results of the Colorado 150 Air Race. No Rockets were entered so the Rocket list is unchanged. In the Test section the speeds of all the planes that have ever raced in SARL sanctioned races was also updated to reflect the results of the Colorado 150 Air Race and provide RV speed context.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
Updated the list of RV speeds in the initial post to reflect the results of the Colorado 150 Air Race. No Rockets were entered so the Rocket list is unchanged. In the Test section the speeds of all the planes that have ever raced in SARL sanctioned races was also updated to reflect the results of the Colorado 150 Air Race and provide RV speed context.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

Bob,
You can't compare speeds race to race as these are ground speeds not airspeeds. That's especially true for comparing the Airventure Cup to the other races as that is not a closed coarse.

zspivey said:
Bob,
Thanks for posting this information. Several weeks ago, someone attempted to start a discussion on realistic speeds for RVs. Your post gives an idea of what is possible to achieve. My RV8A will not reach the numbers you posted but your post provides a goal.
Click to expand...

I would not call these realistic speeds as they are ground speeds. I have had my ground speeds to 220 kts (253 mph) but my RV is not particularly fast. (love those tailwinds)


Do not get me wrong. These guys are going fast and this is great stuff. It just should not be compared to True Airspeeds or race to race. One other place that this occurs is at Reno. I have a friend that has raced in both the bi-plane and Formula 1 class. If the race is early in the morning the posted speeds can be greatly different then the heats later on in the day. That is why they group like speed aircraft in heats and use order of finish and not times (after qualifying). I am going through this right now in trying to get some more airspeed stuff on my plane. Trying to get good data on IAS, CAS, and TAS is very difficult and it makes you question the accuracy of your instrumentation.
 
Speed ...

Speed is the ultimate stimulus for many of us and by any auxiliary name, we like it. I was prepared to go into more but I'll back off because I know you are fully aware of everything I would say and it would have no point. The importance of these data is they are mostly "all out efforts" by many aircraft and with such a data set, patterns emerge that we can learn from. I have the full set in Excel in race order which allows comparisson of plane against plane under the same available conditions that I will share with anyone that asks for it.

Bob Axsom
 
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Nice Work Bob!

Bob,

I have been watching your posts with considerable interest over time and now that I am mostly retired I hope to maybe get involved in some of this fun. Appreciate you and others taking the time to post these speeds and give us something to shoot for, or at least be competitive!

Keep it up!:)
 
Bang for the Buck

Hi Bob:
I've followed your quest for more speed and have to say I applaud the lengths you have gone to keep notching it up. While I recall some of your major efforts in areas such as wingtips and cooling drag, I'd be most interested in what you've done in terms of the prop. I notice some of your fellow racers use of Catto (specs unknown), which seems to restrict use of the aircraft in rain/IMC. Any thoughts on this? Could you share any numbers regarding climb and speed with your racing prop versus standard? Might be nice to give my 9A the ability to outrun some of the 6s and 7s up in Michigan. That would shake them up.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
No complete prop record

The prop is what pulls the plane through the air and it is one of the key elements for speed. The only semi-complete and reliable test results I have seen are from the test Van's ran and reported in the RVator a few years ago. That testing did not include a Catto prop. Mike Thompson has been switching between a Sensenich and a Catto fixed pitch prop and I THINK he is faster with the Catto but I don't have any numbers. John Huft has tried several props on his VERY FAST RV-8 and he has reported the results on his website. He runs a Hartzell with blended airfoil blades - they are not all the same by the way. F7496 blades are supposed to be more efficient than the Van's currently recommended F7497. I wish there were data on racer's actual props but there is not. There is a lot of stuff in the Forum about props if you can sort it out for the parameters that are important to you that might help. I know my next move is to the Hartzell 72" diameter prop with F7496 blades but at the cost involved that move may never take place. A prop engineer at Hartzell told me that if I am strictly interested in racing my best choice might be a fixed pitch prop set up for my plane and maximum speed only.

Good luck,

Bob Axsom
 
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Catto Prop

terrykohler said:
Hi Bob:
I've followed your quest for more speed and have to say I applaud the lengths you have gone to keep notching it up. While I recall some of your major efforts in areas such as wingtips and cooling drag, I'd be most interested in what you've done in terms of the prop. I notice some of your fellow racers use of Catto (specs unknown), which seems to restrict use of the aircraft in rain/IMC. Any thoughts on this? Could you share any numbers regarding climb and speed with your racing prop versus standard? Might be nice to give my 9A the ability to outrun some of the 6s and 7s up in Michigan. That would shake them up.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
Click to expand...

I had a Sensi metal FP prop on my 0-320 (stock) RV-4 for about 350 hours. It was a great prop for general flying. It was efficient and maint. free and gave me a speed TAS of 164kts at 2600rpm at just about any alt. I ran the AV cup race 4 times with that prop and focused on other areas to gain speed. Mostly getting the airplane in trim. I knew the airplane had more speed but only with a different prop. After researching other manufacturers of wood props and talking to Craig Catto, I was convinced that his prop would make my plane faster in the race. I chose a two blade standard tip 68in dia. 65 inch pitch. During testing I found the prop to be under pitched. We feel this was due to static runup rpm numbers taken at a higher density altitude in Colorado. I sent the prop back and Craig modified it by changing the chord of the center section of the prop. It performed much better but is still alittle underpitched. I have flown the prop in light rain at 2300 rpm and have not had any problems with erosion. This Catto prop is pitched for racing and is not optimum for cruising or general flying. I have reduced my actual racing activities( still hosting races just not racing) and plan to try the new ground adjustable prop from Sensi or get another Catto that is suitable for cruising. Craigs props are a work of art and my wife and kids still tease me that I sat and stared at it and caressed it for an hour when I took it out of the box.

Chris M. RACE34:)
 
Man! I can see the image and feel the love

Christopher Murphy said:
Craigs props are a work of art and my wife and kids still tease me that I sat and stared at it and caressed it for an hour when I took it out of the box.

Chris M. RACE34:)
Click to expand...

I totally believe the story. "Racing Chris" is the top of the current RV-4 racing heap. I hate to hear that #34 is cutting back on racing but you sure put together a good race event.

Bob Axsom
 
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