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330Jock

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I have read on numerous posts about what an owner can do in regards to working on his own experimental A/C whether he or she built it or not. I am hearing that one can perform everything except the condition inspection once a year, even if he or she did not build the A/C. Could anyone please give me proof like an FAR, etc, that can put my mind at ease if I were to decide to buy a completed RV?
Thanks,
Bill
 
FAR/AIM Part 43. 43.1 paragraph b.

And the condition inspection is explained in your operating limitations that stay with the aircraft. Basically it says that if you don't have the certificate as a repairman for that aircraft, then an A&P can sign it off.
 
Thanks Warren. I appreciate the help. I still am looking to build, but was just interested in keeping my options open.
Bill
 
you can do most maintenance to your rv if you didnt build it. there is some wording in the fars that says unless it is a major alteration, effects weight and balance, and something else. very nice to buy an experimental. i did, very happy.
 
Anyone can do any and all maintenance including major changes to experimental amateur-built and experimental light-sport aircraft.

The only thing a certificate is required for is the condition inspection.
 
Mel said:
Anyone can do any and all maintenance including major changes to experimental amateur-built and experimental light-sport aircraft.

The only thing a certificate is required for is the condition inspection.
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Just because you "can" do it doesn't mean you should :eek:

If you don't have any experience working on aircraft, you would be wise to seek guidance from those that do.
 
What the last guy said. That or make sure you make good friends with a local Mechanic. Buying is not really an issue in terms of operations and maintenence. At least if you have access to a good mechanic who is not what I'd call a serial rapist.

On the other issue, which is actually a true conundrum for many, BUY or BUILD, you have to seriously do the math and the home work. And be totally honest with yourself.

There are Serial Builders. Those insane individuals who will build 3 to 10 aircraft in their lifetime and spend almost no time on the stick before selling it and starting a new project. They think life is over if they are not drilling holes or driving rivets.

There are builders/flyers. Guys who only build because they want to FLY and its a means to get an amazing aircraft for far less than a factory pig with a half the performance. This describes a lot of builders and also explains the various levels of quality/finishes you see, all based on how desperate they are to fly versus how much they enjoy the building process. lol.

Then there are FLYERS, who hate the entire thought of building because frankly, its all about the FLYING. Building to them can be a miserable enslavement because every day in the basement is a day NOT flying. To them its a necessary evil because the end result is this amazing, astounding, knock-your-socks off tiny little fighter plane that you just can't order up from Cessna. If you are one of these guys, keep thinking 13,000 RIVETS, 13,000 RIVETS...and you may become a BUYER pretty quick. HA.

The question you need to answer to yourself is, Which are you? Are you somewhere in between? You gotta really think about that.

So, having thought about it, do some math.

Example: On Vans calculator, if you keep the aircraft simple, you can build an RV-8 for $75,000 to $90,000. This does not take into account, time, family, location, ad nauseum. Nor does it take into account todays builders trends to turn their sports planes into mini-airliners with $30,000 worth of flat panels and auto-pilots. BUT, if you keep it simple, yep, you can build an 8 for under 90 Grand. Factor in the years it takes to build.

Now...surf Barnstormers or Trade-a-plane. Hmmm...you can, and quite often, find a perfectly good RV-8 for $75,000 to $90,000 IF you want it simple and with out all the televisions on the panel. Add gimicks and gadgets and it quickly soars to $120,000, but an analog RV-8 can be had for about the same price as it takes to build, but without the years invested in driving rivets.

And there is the rub. Buy? Build? And why you need to decide your goal. Learning experience of the built, to fly a mini-fighter, or both?

Looked at that one way, it seems Simple. BUY. Why spend 2 to 5 years of your life, risking your marriage and thumbs, when, if in the end, the money spent is about the same?

Well...building means YOU control the QUALITY. You know exactly HOW it was built, so if you are skilled and careful, you get a safe aircraft by doing it RIGHT yourself. Every time you pull 4 G in a loop you know you did it right and the wing will stay with you.

Does that mean a bought airplane is a risk? NO! It means IF you are going to buy one, you do a lot of homework on it first. Consider who built it. What is their background? Whats the plane look like? I do not mean paint. Look at the details. Smokey rivets? Missing rivets? Out of trim flying surfaces? Owner making excuses for issues? You can tell a fair amount by simply looking that thing over before committing.

No one can give you a complete and definitive answer, but you do NOT have to build to get a really amazing RV-8. Cost wise, especailly in this market, it may be a wash either way. Prices are down. Its a buyers market. If you happen to find an plane for sale that was built by a Naval Aircraft Mechanic, who, after retiring, worked as an A&P for 30 years, then its probably a safe bet! lol. And even if not, some of the builders out there today are amazing in how detail oriented they are. So buying is perfectly viable now days. All you gotta do is keep your end of the bargain and make sure what you are buying is worthy of the money.

And if you are not sure, find one of those insane Serial Builders! By the fourth time, they about got it right! HA.
 
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Mel said:
Anyone can do any and all maintenance including major changes to experimental amateur-built and experimental light-sport aircraft.

The only thing a certificate is required for is the condition inspection.
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There is the issue with the transponder/pitot static testing not being able to be completed by the builder....:(
 
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MauiLvrs said:
The is the issue with the transponder/pitot static testing not being able to be completed by the builder....:(
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Only a Certified Repair Station can accomplish the transponder, altimeter, altitude encoder and static system checks required by 91.411 and 91.413.
 
Transponder check

(Only a Certified Repair Station can accomplish the transponder, altimeter, altitude encoder and static system checks required by 91.411 and 91.413)

Thats true, IF you decide to put one in it then it should comply with the FAR's but your not required to have one.

My current RV is actually the first plane I've had with a transponder. I've never had a need for one. This one wasn't working right when I first got the airplane. One screw and out it came. Sat on a bench til this summer and decided to get it fixed because the hole in the panel bugged me. Probably should have just left it sit on the shelf.
 
wera710 said:
if you keep it simple, yep, you can build an 8 for under 90 Grand
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I would say much less then that if you look around. Get a used kit (assuming its good build quality), rebuild your own engine, don't buy the most expensive EFIS, etc...
 
It can be done

There were two O-540 engines advertized on here yesterday and we're heading out to Texas to get one after listening to it run on the Aztec....$12,000 with a three-bladed prop!...nearly 1/5 of what a new Lyc and prop will cost from Van's, for the -10 that's being built.

You don't need all that glitz and glamour to get in the air.

Cut two instrument panels and save the second one for all that 'glass later, while you fly with minimal VFR gauges (used).

Get a body man to paint the plane with your help as well.

Best,
 
Bill, just to take Scott's point one step further, look at the RV-6 we recently considered: 140 TTAFE, O-320 with FP prop and VFR only (just the kind of RV Scott was describing), almost fresh as a daisy due to a hangar-only home. Asking price: $49K. With winter quickly approach Maine, where it's based, that price may become even softer. On a beautiful flying day, RV's like this must make grown men weep in their garages as the plunk away on their kits, no matter what they are building.

Jack
 
More on who can work on an RV

Folks...

In the last 11 yers since I have been involved in this fun, I've heard the statement many times, to wit: "Anyone can work on an RV, but only the holder of either the Repairman's Cert for that Aircraft, or an A&P, can sign off on the Condition Inspection". A good friend of mine, an A/P IA has never heard of such a thing so after a search I've found nothing really pertinate in the FAR's except this: http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_43-3.html

He is aghast that a logbook note is not required at the time of work done, no matter who does it...Or is it?

Any help would be appreciated...Mel? Anyone?

Thanx all,

.
 
Jerry Cochran said:
Any help would be appreciated....
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Jerry,

Gasman alluded to this in post #2, but check out the Applicability of Part 43.

Part 43.1-Applicability- paragraph (b) states:

(b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft.
 
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