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ConneryIsTheBestBond

Member
Brand new to the forum! I've wanted to build a RV-8 since they were introduced. I think in the next year or two we will have the financial means to begin the tail kit. I'm planning on a long build period (probably 10 years or so).

Anyways, with the removal of 100LL in the future and no certain replacement, am I crazy to want to dive into the building process knowing that by the time I get flying aviation fuel maybe totally different? Will Lycomings become obsolete? Will there be another engine type that Van's adapts to the aircraft? These are the primary roadblocks that I see getting started with a long build time. Opinions?

Also, what did most of you do in the years leading into the building? If anything, I am a planner and like to have all of my ducks in a row when I start a project, especially one this size! Ideas on reading material for a first time homebuilder? Also, good intro stuff for a prospective RV builder? I've been on the Van's site forever and stalked several builder's sites for what seems like a decade (Kevin Horton comes to mind) etc?

Still about two years out of really getting serious about this, but I'm just looking for your opinions.

Thanks!
 
DaltonIsTheWorstBond

All of the Alphabet Soup Organizations (FAA, EAA, AOPA, ETC) are working on this process. I think that we can safely assume that 100LL will not go away until a viable alternative fuel is developed. There are simply too many users, both recreational and business, for any other alternative.

Keep on planning! There will be an engine when you're ready for it.
 
i'd say just start building. you're going to spend some time at the start with the emp and working on your shop/ tool collection. wings are pretty straightforward and its really only at the end of the fuselage you have to worry about the engine so much. there will be a fuel/ engine by the time you get to that point. it might be the same stuff you see right now, just with a much lower lead level or no lead.
 
T.Haas,
What part of Southern Ill. do you live in? There are a couple of very active EAA chapters around Metro St Louis area with several flying RVs and active builders. I recommend finding a chapter and getting involved. If you want to see an RV7A build in progress, send me a PM.
Good luck!
 
flytoboat said:
T.Haas,
What part of Southern Ill. do you live in? There are a couple of very active EAA chapters around Metro St Louis area with several flying RVs and active builders. I recommend finding a chapter and getting involved. If you want to see an RV7A build in progress, send me a PM.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

I'm right between the Carbondale and Marion chapters! An EAA membership is on the Christmas list. I used to work the ramp at Marion so I got to see quite a few RV's there. Hard to wait to get started, but I'm on year 12 or 13 of waiting, so what's another couple? :D

Good news is the wife (just got married last month - been together > 10 years) has been with me since I had my private certificate building time and working on ratings and loves to fly so I got that going for me. Been out of GA for about 7 years though. AOPA member the whole time and try to stay current on the issues.

Looking forward to my Tim Taylor garage, machine building process. More power...
 
I don't have too much to add to this thread, other than to comment on your oh-so-cool username!

That said, the engine I ordered from Superior Air Parts in the summer of 2006 and received the following year, a vertical draft parallel valve IO-360 rated at 180 horsepower, is specified as being compatible with unleaded fuel, including (presumably alcohol free, but don't quote me on that) unleaded mogas. I haven't flown yet, and will almost certainly fly with 100LL at least for awhile, but it's nice to know it's more versatile than that.
 
Optimist or Pessimist

ConneryIsTheBestBond said:
...am I crazy to want to dive into the building process knowing that by the time I get flying aviation fuel maybe totally different? Will Lycomings become obsolete? Will there be another engine type that Van's adapts to the aircraft? These are the primary roadblocks that I see getting started with a long build time. Opinions?
Click to expand...

Are you crazy?, NO.
Will many things change during your anticipated 10yr build?, ABSOLUTELY!
What you described as roadblocks are actually an opportunity to become a prat of aviation history. Start your build based on personal criteria rather than anticipated industry changes. Once you get started, you'll soon appreciate what most builders describe as "the experience of a lifetime". Don't find yourself in the year 2040 saying "I'm to old to start a project now... I wish I hadn't waited so long".
 
you've gotten some good advice here

you have quite a while to get to the engine purchasing stage so that is a good thing, there will be more time for a change to take place that could affect you down the road. If I was a guessing man, I think we will see something different in terms of GA powerplants in the next 10 years, and hopefully it will have time to be tested before you are ready to buy. However as somebody has stated, just start building if you have your mind set, and keep researching. For what its worth, I went with 0-360, which will run on premium unleaded, and can have low compression pistons put in which will allow for a lower octane rating. There are options.

Randy 8A
 
engine of the future? good luck second guessing that.

As a young boy, I recall watching missile launches from Vandenburg when my dad worked there. About that time I was also watching the Jetson's. I figured some day, I'd worked for Spacely Sprockets and be buddies with Elroy. :D

Don't plan to far out, things aren't changing that rapidly.
 
Are you crazy?

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but you are crazy. Timothy Dalton was the best bond.

As for the engine bit, if something big has changed, then you may find that electric or some other form is available. We always worry about the future being vastly different, but 9 times out of ten it is just the same and most often in the 1 time out of ten that it is different, there are options that can be made such as retrofit etc. Here is a thought - perhaps Rotax will have made a bigger engine? Or diesel may have gone back to basics and become logical again (without all those silly electronics).

If everything were to gp very pear shaped, then the fact you began an RV8 will be the least of your concerns - build on....
 
I see little impact to engines. Any solution to the "assumed but never verified" lead issue has to support the 100 octane users.

Don't be surprised if 100LL is around in ten years.

You will not see any significant electric systems, fairy dust solutions, etc.
 
In reality, the lead will go away. But, unleaded 96 octane will probably replace it initially. Most can run on that. Frankly, I wouldn't even think about it now, just start building.

During the build, you might want to consider return fuel lines to the tanks, how the tanks are sealed, and where you would put a radiator IF your airplane looks a lot like a P-51....

By the way, George Lazenby was the best Bond - closest to the character in the books.

John
 
I Just Wanna Know?

Wheres my flying car?
We were promised.....:confused:
Don't worry about the engine. If you are a Lycoming type engine person, there are compression ratio combinations, and fuel systems that can tolerate ethanol and low octane, it's just a matter of assembling the right parts from the right vendors.
When you get your airframe to the point of needing an engine, you will have developed an opinion on what is best for you.
Now get out there in the shop and start learning how to enjoy building an RV!:p
 
Timothy Dalton??

I've never heard anyone say that he was the best Bond, me included. Sean, yes and was my choice until Daniel Craig took over.
 
we'd all love to know the future

of GA fuel. It remains an unsolved puzzle.

I would charge ahead anyway. In fact, I am charging...

Watch what Cessna does. Some on this board have been known to occasionally disparage the gorilla of GA, but they have gotten very good over the many years at _not_ going extinct. I suspect they will remain long after many others fail. But they won't do it by going into the electric motor-glider business...
 
My projection

Watching Cessna will be interesting but sometimes companies do stuff just for public relations.

Projection: You won't see the main propulsion system be wind, electric, diesel, hope and change or fairy dust. It will be essentially the same engine you can buy today if not the exact same.

If we don't get rid of the ethanol scam, you may have new materials to account for that failure, but otherwise it will be a Lycoming equivalent. I don't expect significant FADEC or other expensive crutches.

I will state that there is a >50% chance we will still have 100LL in ten years.

In today's AvWebFlash we have these opinions, apparently from the AOPA convention:

"Meanwhile, Ross and Kraft said in podcast interviews with AVweb that an industry as small as GA can only support one specialized fuel and discounted discussion of trying to create different fuel streams for low and high compression engines. Kraft said demand is what will drive development and sustainability of a replacement fuel for 100LL."It's what keeps me awake at night. Demand," he said. Both said that while the industry could create engines to run on whatever fuel is available, a viable replacement is needed for 100LL for the hundreds of thousands of engines already in service."

Note: Only one fuel so it must support the 100 octane users.
 
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at the risk of thinking globally...

GAMA members are increasingly selling to a global market, and Avgas is not available near most earthlings; jetA is a lot closer. That fact must figure prominently in any strategy long-term, or at least be taken into account somehow.

That said, pistons will be with us for a long time. Not that an electric motor glider isn't real nifty...
 
ConneryIsTheBestBond said:
Anyways, with the removal of 100LL in the future and no certain replacement, am I crazy to want to dive into the building process knowing that by the time I get flying aviation fuel maybe totally different?
Click to expand...

Start building... with your estimated building time, you shouldn't have to worry this too much in next 5 years. After that, you know much more what is happening to 100LL and there is most likely some new alternatives to think of.
 
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