R

R44_RV8

I'm New Here
Has there been anybody that has started a flying club of RV's? Seems like a good way to fly/Rent an RV if you cant afford to buy one. Obviously there would have to be some training involved and minimum experience requirements. Anybody heard of somebody doing this? I know there are plenty of flying clubs with Cessna's. I would venture to say Insurance would eat you alive...... any comments?
 
R44_RV8 said:
... Seems like a good way to fly/Rent an RV if you cant afford to buy one...
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You can't rent an Experimental because they are, well, Experimental. However, you and 10 of your best friends can buy one and share the expense, you just can't rent it.

Oh, and getting insurance for your group may be an issue.

PS. Welcome to VAF.
 
Great Idea

I have thought that a great way to go would be to have our guys in on a two seater AND an RV-10. Best of both worlds...:D
 
I think it's a great idea and I've been giving it quite a bit of thought lately. What I've been thinking of doing is start a RV flying club while the plane is under construction. It would be a great way to share the building/learning process and as the plane is finished those who wished could go on with their own project. They would be able to fly the club RV while theirs is under construction, sell their share to someone else just starting out after their RV is completed. Money invested in the club RV could be recouped for the final finishing expenses - and so on.

I currently own 25% interest in a '58 172 and 10% in a J3 Cub club. I intend to sell my shares in these two planes eventually to pay for the balance of expenses to complete the RV-8.

Any interest in something along these lines in the Minneapolis/St Paul, MN area? Give me a call or e-mail.

Tony
 
I'm in a 70 member club w/ 5 planes. One member wanted a RV-6A added to the mix. As a Board we told him, show us that:
1. we can afford it
2. we can insure it
3. we can keep it rubber side down.(ie training).

He skipped #1 and started at #2. After a quick phone call to our insurance rep, the search wasn't needed. The insurance guy said absolutely "NO". Experimental in a club is a no go for us.

Actually, I always felt an RV wasn't a candidate for a club plane. I've seen how club members treat stuff. It would be a sad life for an RV!
 
BUT, what if it was a select group of pilots that cared about RV's and flying them.This wouldn't be your run of the mill flying club.
 
RV club insurance

I'm an aviation insurance agent. I was asked recently to put together a quote for a 10 member club - that currently had a C-172 - to include an RV-10 in their "fleet." Was able to get it quoted at fairly reasonable rates. Seems like 5-6K for a $100,000+ airplane, roughly. Insurer wanted a good checkout CFI with a good bit of RV time - prefered RV-10 time, but others would have been OK. Private pilots or more advanced. No students. Seems like 400-500 hours or better. This was an equity based club - not a rental operation.

Just thought you'd like to know. Can be done...
 
So, after talking to insurance agents. It looks like it COULD be done with 5 owners, $100,000 RV, as long as everybody had training and checkouts in the RV. Insurance for the year would be around $3,000. That really doesn't:D seem bad at all....................
 
JDRhodes said:
I'm an aviation insurance agent. I was asked recently to put together a quote for a 10 member club - that currently had a C-172 - to include an RV-10 in their "fleet." Was able to get it quoted at fairly reasonable rates. Seems like 5-6K for a $100,000+ airplane, roughly. Insurer wanted a good checkout CFI with a good bit of RV time - prefered RV-10 time, but others would have been OK. Private pilots or more advanced. No students. Seems like 400-500 hours or better. This was an equity based club - not a rental operation.

Just thought you'd like to know. Can be done...
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I'm glad you chimed in on this discussion. As a former Independent Insurance Agent (retired) for nearly 30 years it is important the everyone gets all the facts before saying "no can do". I agree that a 70 member, 5 plane flying club is probably no place for this type of aircraft. However, 5 to 10 people interested in ALL the joys of experimental aircraft - building as well as flying, joining together to share knowledge, effort and expense could be a very rewarding experience.

Because I have thought about a RV flying club of some type for quite some time now, I would be happy to hear the cons as well as the pros. So if you think it a bad idea your opinions would be welcome.

I personally think it would be a great idea but needs to be well thought out.

Let's keep this post going.

Tony
 
We have it...

.....on a smaller scale for now. My buddy has a -4 in my hangar and I'm on his Insurance as his instructor. My partner in the -6A also flies our -6A and another friend wants in. The insurance co. just needs verification that I've instructed him and it's a go.

I suppose that the usual "gotchas" like hold harmless waivers, contracts, etc would need to be drawn up. There are several attorneys on here that could help in that regard....one drew up my release that Transition training students sign. For an RV club, I'd guess that 6 or so members would be the ideal sitiuation, with all qualified RV pilots.

Regards,
 
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Pierre,

I do the same thing, and a lot of us do - but...

Watch out for insurance to rear its ugly head. IF you are just borrowing the airplane fom a friend, then, as a "permissive user" you are extended liability protection by your friend's insurance policy. IE if you hurt someone, and they sue you, your friend's policy will defend you and pay on your behalf. The policy language makes you an "insured."

BUT - as a third party pilot, the insurer can hold you responsible for damage to the airplane caused by your negligence. Essentially, the insurer has the same rights to come after you that your friend would have. Your friend might not sue you if you damaged his airplane. But, if he turns in a hull claim, the insurance company might not be so forgiving.

Real flying clubs set up insurance with the club - some type of corporate entity as the "Named Insured." Each club member, then is a part of that owner entity and thus protected by the policy and protected by the hull coverage as well.That's the correct way to set up real flying club insurance. And that's why it's relativly expensive. Near commercial rates.

I've seen a group of guys get together and call themselves a club. One guy buys insurance as if it's his airplane and adds all the club members as pilots. They split the cost of the insurance between them. All's fine until there's a claim. Then the at fault "club" member finds himself with being persued (subrogation is the word for it) by the insurer to pay for the damage.
 
Thanks Jeff..

....but if the members all own a piece of the airplane, like 6 members who pay $16,666 each for a $100,000 airplane, would they all be "Insureds?"

Thanks,
 
That's right

...just make sure that it's set up that way. That'll be more expensive than one person insuring his (single owner) airplane.
 
??????????????????

I'm confused. If you get somebody named on the policy can they go after them through subrogation?

When I had my -4 ferried, the pilot who did it had tons of experience in RV's. I was able to add him to the policy for free essentially as the cost of the policy was determined my the lowest common denominator: ME:eek:. I was left with the impression that I could easily add several pilots to the policy and the overall cost would be determined by the least experienced pilot listed. And most importantly all would have equal protection??

Am I correct?

This is with Avemco which isn't always the cheapest but seems to try to be up front and not get you a cheap quote by hiding fine print limits you may not understand. Just an impression after a year with them.

I would love a partnership in a -3 an -8, and a -10. Get 10 people you trust and it COULD be sweet. Get the mix wrong or a PITA member and it could be tough.
 
Insurance agents told me that after 5 people they view it as a flying club and thats not ok with a experimental aircraft. What would be sweet is 5 responsible owners, $40,000 each, one -8 and one -9. Each person would own 1/5 in each. Thats the best of BOTH worlds!
 
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