Blastr42

Blastr42

Member
I'm a new private pilot and I think the RV-9a is right up my alley for price, performance, community and mission category. The downside is I have never build much before and I want to fly my plane sooner rather than later (no I don't want to buy an already built plane).

I've seen some builder assistance programs on Van's website and was wondering if any of them work in a similar way to Glasair's builder assistance program that goes from a kit to a complete airplane (or mostly complete) in a matter of weeks. I think something like that would reallly work for me.

Does anyone have any (good or bad) experience with such companies?

Has anyone else tried to do what I want to do, has it worked?

If you have done such a program, did you feel that you still built the airplane (whether or not the FAA says so)?

Thanks for your help,
Jeff
 
Jeff -
I'd recommend you call EAA.
They are very pro builder, but also want to maintain the legality of the 51% rule.
I think anyone on the EAA Homebuilders Council will be able to offer good advice.
Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions. I think I can hook you up with the right contacts.
Good Luck...
Lorin D
9A Wings
 
You might check out Alexander Tech Center as well. They seem to have a great program. http://www.buildtofly.com/dotnetnuke/

Re: the Glasair/Glastar program. I'm not a big fan of Glasair/Glastar's program because I think they are violating the heck out of (at least the spirit of) the experimental/amateur built requirements. Their "two week to taxi" program seems to be a case in point. I just hope programs like this don't eventually lead to the FAA stepping in and restricting our priveleges because of a select few.

Good luck though. Having someone look over your shoulder as you build can be very helpful.
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
Re: the Glasair/Glastar program. I'm not a big fan of Glasair/Glastar's program because I think they are violating the heck out of (at least the spirit of) the experimental/amateur built requirements. Their "two week to taxi" program seems to be a case in point. I just hope programs like this don't eventually lead to the FAA stepping in and restricting our priveleges because of a select few.
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It was my understanding that the FAA signed off on the Glasair/Glastar program as meeting the requirements and thus has given their approval for that program already.
 
You're right. The FAA has signed off on the Glasair/Glastar program, obviously because it meets the letter of the law. Re: the spirit of the law... I think a program that suggests that you could be ready to taxi in two 40-hour work weeks is not what most of us would agree is (or should be) the spirit of the amateur-built provisions. Just my opinion, though.
 
All -
I know that Glasair/Glastar has invited the EAA Homebuilders Council to go down and view their two-week "tail to taxi" program.
The visit is scheduled sometime around the EAA NorthWest Flyin early July.
I would not be surprised to see a short write-up in an upcoming edition of Sport Aviation.
Lorin D
9A Wings
 
I just don't understand how at Alexander Tech you can build the empennage in a week? I just just completed mine and it took me what is about the average time of 180 hours. If you work even 12 hours a day for six days, that's only 72. So how do they do it?
 
jlfernan said:
I just don't understand how at Alexander Tech you can build the empennage in a week? I just just completed mine and it took me what is about the average time of 180 hours. If you work even 12 hours a day for six days, that's only 72. So how do they do it?
Click to expand...

I think a well organized week with someone to help when you need two people is completely believable. I just looked through my build log - my wife and I spent two months of evenings and weekends and ended up with an almost dingless emp. Not too bad (and it was fun too!).

I think most of the improvement comes from having someone who's 'done it before.' I think this winter we'll start on a second RV, and I wouldn't be surprised if it takes half the number of hours.
 
Empennage in a week

I did the ATC program and I spent more than 12 hours a day for the first 5 days and finished the aluminium work by 3pm on the 6th day. The build process was very well organized and having instructors that could doing the whole thing from memory really helped us students learn a lot quickly. It was a great way to get started and I think the quality is better than I would have done spending months on my own. There are some other very details post on ATC, so I won't rehash.

However, back to the original post. Getting the tail done in a week is a LONG way from building an airplane - even with the QB.
 
Assistant vs. Subrogate

Jeff,

Your question is a reasonable one for someone new to the amateur-built aircraft community. I am fairly new myself, having only been building since February. But I have found that if you keep asking the good questions and if you investigate the regulations, deal with reputable builder assistance companies, and heed the advice of the numerous successful builders in this forum, that you should come to the correct conclusions.

That being said, I don't believe a proper conclusion will indicate that you can build an RV aircraft in two week's time. In fact, I believe that if you do it right, you'll have more than two week's time invested in just sanding and edge finishing the parts that eventually get riveted together. Van's build instructions state very simply that the edge finishing procedures "will constitute a sizable portion of the total building time".

I have RV-7 kit number 2601. It is fairly similar, in terms of the construction process, to the RV-6. Over 6000 RV-6 kits have been sold and more than 1000 are flying. So I suspect Vans might know a thing or two about the process of building their airplanes. And they say that an average of about 1400 hours is required for the current RV-7 kits.

In our drive-thru, minute-rice, microwave society, we often want to rush to the gratification of the end product, not realizing at the onset that the gratification comes largely from the process.

So take your time, pick the kit that is right for your needs, invest the right amount of time, and enjoy the journey to your completed RV.
 
Here's my new thought

Thanks so much for the advise everyone! It's really helped me think through the problem more clearly.

Tonight I visited an RV-9a workshop that a friend from EAA is working on. So after looking at what he did and thinking about what I want to do. Now I'm thinking about doing one of those quickbuild empenage weeks in Georgia or Texas and then going with the quick build kits for the rest. I think that would get my skills up to par and shave a bunch of time of the process.

So the question then becomes: how long should I expect to spend on the rest of the kit if I do a quickbuild tail class and the rest of the quickbuild kits?

Any further help would be great.

Thanks.
 
Blastr42 said:
So the question then becomes: how long should I expect to spend on the rest of the kit if I do a quickbuild tail class and the rest of the quickbuild kits?
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It'll take two to three times as long as your initial estimate. This is a recursive law, in that it is still true even if you take it into account when you make your first estimate.
 
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Blastr42 said:
So the question then becomes: how long should I expect to spend on the rest of the kit if I do a quickbuild tail class and the rest of the quickbuild kits?
Click to expand...
42.

When you know you must build the airplane, when there is no choice but to do it, that you won't be happy unless you do it, the rest will fall into place. When you've achieved that state of enlightenment (your friends and family will call it obsession, and they will be correct), it won't matter how long it takes.
 
Training classes

Kevin Horton said:
It'll take two to three times as long as your initial estimate. This is a recursive law, in that it is still true even if you take it into account when you make your first estimate.
Click to expand...
This is totally true! I'm in the 3rd year of my 1 year project.

As an aside on the empennage training class, check out this thread for some feedback. I think the training classes are really a great idea.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=5732

I really want to get my RV8 finished and flying. My original goal was to simply have an outstanding aircraft. However, the journey of building has been much more interesting, mentally stimulating (doesn't take much for me :)) and entertaining than I had anticipated.
 
2 Years - hopefully

My goal is about 2 years, which after the first year, I still think is realistic. I'd be a little further along if I had ordered the QB at the same time as I ordered the Emp kit. I still had some doubts until doing the ATC class, so I had to wait longer than I liked to get my QB delivered. BTW, I spend 90% of my free time working on the plane.
 
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