[teaguy]

Just about finished our RV-7A and need to look into transitition training. Since I have never had the pleasure of actually flying in an RV the area I am particularly interested in hearing about prior to starting my training is on the approach and landing phase of flight as it pertains to RV's. Anyone who follows the RV threads reads about the challenge of slowing up RV's. All my flying too date has been in spam cans where slowing never seemed to be an issue, you simply idle the engine and hang in mid air. One thing to keep in mind is that I have a fixed pitch prop and as such will not have the luxury of the braking you get with a constant speed set up. Also when I learned to fly, dropping down on the runway (steep approach) was preferred over power on dragged out approaches however that being said I would imagine lower, power on approaches would seem the "best" way to manage approach speeds. What kind of airspeed numbers and rate of descents are RV'ers trying hit for the perfect approach? Are these more power on than power off approachces? Any takers? Please state RV type for clarification.

Mark Mercier
Vancouver, BC

 

[penguin]

Approach Speeds

I fly an RV-6A with a 160hp engine and a 79" pitch Sensenich prop. The key to good landings is keeping the approach speed under control (bet you've never heard that before) - I aim for 80 mph on base & final and try to keep this speed within 2mph. If I'm approaching a short runway, or am at a light weight, I will let the speed get back to 75mph. Any slower and I will bang the tail before the mains - not a huge problem but sounds horrible. As an RV-7 has taller gear you may be able to accept a slower approach speed. I always hold off well to land definitely mains first, and then lower the nose wheel down. I use full flap unless there is a strong crosswind when I use half flap.

The challenge is slowing down. If you enter the pattern at cruise speed the throttle needs to be close to idle passing the up-wind numbers otherwise you will be flying a long way down wind before you slow up enough to get half flap down. If you don't get half flap down, descending at a meaningful rate becomes tricky. Only small amounts of power are required to keep the sight picture correct - I don't know what descent rates I use, I don't go very far back down wind and often fly the whole approach with the power at idle, varying my touch down point by when I go to full flap. Sometimes a small amount of power is required through the wind gradient to keep the picture looking good. You will likely find approach speed control challenging on the first few flights so use a long runway with friendly approaches. The only caution here is turning steeply, because of the short wings the induced drag builds quickly if you turn sharply incresing the rate of descent and needing much more power to control. Once you are experienced you can use this to your advantage.

The control forces required in RVs are much lower than in any spam can I've flown - which is why the are so god to fly. Transistion training is essential for a trauma free first flight.

Good luck, yours, Pete

 

[Rick6a]

............Anyone who follows the RV threads reads about the challenge of slowing up RV's.............One thing to keep in mind is that I have a fixed pitch prop and as such will not have the luxury of the braking you get with a constant speed set up..................

Mark Mercier
Vancouver, BC

Mark,

I too have read much of the nonsense about how difficult it is to slow down an RV.
I suspect many of those comments are the fanciful biproduct of excessive bravado, the subtext being "my RV is so fast and slippery, it just does not want to slow down". Point of fact. My speedy little O-320 equipped RV-6A sports a fixed pitch Sensenich prop, has all the fairings installed, and I have zero problem with speed control. To emphasize the point, the other day I intentionally crossed midfield slightly above pattern altitude from the north at 165 KNOTS (GPS groundspeed), chopped power, turned left to enter downwind for 27, waited and watched for the speed to decay and by the time we arrived near mid-base was around 105 MPH on the airspeed indicator at which time I started deploying flaps in increments to set up for the typically genteel landing that soon followed. This was no wide Cessna 310 type landing pattern either. I kept it in relatively close. What I do marvel at is the wide speed range capability of our RV's. When approaching a busy uncontrolled airport, it is simple business to slow down to typical Cessna 150 speeds (and delight at watching the fuel flow indicator showing the O-320 sipping 3.1 GPH of fuel) while taking the time to sort things out. On one occasion, slow flight without losing altitude at around 80 MPH showed a fuel flow indication of 1.9-2.3 GPH! In my view, anybody who has difficulty in slowing one of these things down needs some dual with the focus on planning ahead. Almost all of my 1000+ hours are in a Cessna 150 and if I can do it anyone can.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"

 

[DeltaRomeo]

Rick and Pete are right, Mark.

I had a RV-6 with 160hp Lyc and 79" Sensenich FP prop for a couple of years and had no problems with speed control. Granted, my pattern was larger than the 180/CS guys (why I often flew as #4 in the pattern break), but speed control is not as hard as you might imagine, just think about two miles out in front of the plane at all times around the field and you'll be just fine.
Over the fence at 68kts (70kts in the pattern).

Now, with the 180hp, C/S setup I am enjoying a MUCH tighter pattern and even easier speed control. Now over the fence at 70kts.

Best,

 

[rv6ejguy]

If you are doing your initial flights without pants or fairings, you will have no problem slowing down. Once you fit these, you will have to alter your pattern, approach and power reductions considerably. My 6A gained 14 knots in cruise with fairings fitted and was way harder to slow down in the pattern.

You just have to plan ahead a bit more, get the power back early in the downwind to drop the speed down to the half flap limit. Once you get half flap lowered and the speed below 80 knots, the plane will come down fine. Descent rates get quite a bit higher below 75 knots with half flap, with full flap, you have plenty of drag and will have to add some power below 75 knots or you drop like an elevator.

I rarely land with full flaps as the airplane does not handle quite so nicely and elevator authority at forward C of Gs is more limited for the flare. I often land clean or if I screw up a bit on final, use half flap. The over the nose vis is improved a lot with flap.

High weight changes the descent rate and flare characteristics quite a bit with the low aspect ratio wings so be ready for that later. I carry 10-12 inches MP down to the flare which usually results in a nice smooth touchdown.

Clean, I fly final at 75-85 knots depending on weight and wind. Half flap final is at 70-80 and full flaps at 65-70 with plenty of power on. If you are landing on a short runway, you will have to use flaps and approach at around 65. I usually aim for around 500 fpm in the base and final legs.

I run a turbo Sube and IVO prop so it may be a bit different from the Lyc powered aircraft using different props.

T and Gs are a lot different in an RV than a spam can. As soon as you advance the throttle again, you are airborne. Going around or overshooting with half flap is no problem. You can raise it later if you want.

I'm in Calgary, If you were a little closer, I could take you up. We have some Lyc powered 7As here too at Springbank.

 

[sf3543]

After 900 Hrs of RV time behind both FP and CS props, I didn't see slowing the plane down as a real problem. As you begin to fly your plane, you'll notice it is faster and takes extra planning to get to the proper speed, attitude, etc., but this is part of the learning curve. I bet you had the same problem when you were learning to fly...everything happened pretty fast at first, but eventually, you caught up with the plane and it was no longer a big deal. For your first hours, just start slowing down farther out from the airport so that you can enter the pattern at a manageable (for you) speed. You'll get the hang of it and then figure out the best method for you. I found that you could enter the pattern, at mid-field, at a fairly brisk pace and have plenty of time to get things slowed down. Once you get that first notch of flaps in, you'll find that the plane will really slow down nicely. I usually put in the first notch of flaps on base leg. On final, I found 80 MPH to be a good speed, slowing down as you approached the numbers. For me, this is generally true for both FP & CS props. CS gives you the luxury of entering faster if you put the prop in high RPM in or before entering the pattern, since it makes a great brake. ( I learned to keep the prop in cruise until the rpm came down so that when you pushed the knob in to high rpm mode, there was no engine surge, at all.)
Good luck. I think you will find that your worries are a result of not having been in an RV yet. You'll love it!

 

[Skyhook]

With my 180hp FP -4, I am 70kts downwind, 65kts final, 55kts over the fence.

Ground effect with this acft is more pronounced than most I have flown and 50 kts can seem like a sleigh ride. Maybe the tail dragger config has something to do with it.